All that's fine and good, but it doesn't erase the violent warmongering in the rest of the book.
Apparently, either Allah or Muhammad is pretty inconsistent.
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What do you think about Quranists?
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
All that's fine and good, but it doesn't erase the violent warmongering in the rest of the book.
Apparently, either Allah or Muhammad is pretty inconsistent.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
Your prejudice isn't relevant to the facts.
Jedster
Flying through space
@Starlight
I first came across Quaranists circa 1995 when I went online. They called themselves Submitters and were followers of Rashid Khalifa(until they weren't). I participated in docussions with them from 1995 until 2000 ish.
They considered Christians, Jews who followed the scriptures, also as Submitters.
I don't remember all their claims, but I do remember one that I never checked out because I thought it unimportant.
They claimed that the phrase Allāhu ʾakbar is not in the Quaran. They used another phrase(which I have forgotten) that was similar in meaning and in the Quaran.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
What do you think about Quranists?
1. First, the Quran which is the Book of G-d.
2. Secondly, the practice/acts/deeds of the Holy Prophet; Quran has commandments for which practical and periodical action/illustration is required by Muhammad, these are called Sunnah, these are done continuously from the time of Muhammad with no break, so these are in a way and in this sense a part of the Quran.
3. The third source of guidance is hadeeth, by which we mean those traditions which were compiled from the statements of diverse narrators a century and a half after the Holy Prophet.
As the Holy Prophet was commissioned for the propagation of the Quran, he was also commissioned for establishing the sunnah.
Right?
Regards
There are three sources of guidance of Islam:
1. First, the Quran which is the Book of G-d.
2. Secondly, the practice/acts/deeds of the Holy Prophet; Quran has commandments for which practical and periodical action/illustration is required by Muhammad, these are called Sunnah, these are done continuously from the time of Muhammad with no break, so these are in a way and in this sense a part of the Quran.
3. The third source of guidance is hadeeth, by which we mean those traditions which were compiled from the statements of diverse narrators a century and a half after the Holy Prophet.
As the Holy Prophet was commissioned for the propagation of the Quran, he was also commissioned for establishing the sunnah.
Right?
Regards
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Now read 5:33 for a description of what is good. Apparently killing and/or amputating the limbs of your enemies is 'good' and 'fair'.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
Do you think that there are no just wars?
YHWH [is] a man of war: YHWH [is] his name.
Exodus 15:3
Sounds like very orthodox Muslim belief, for all the good that it makes for a definite non-Muslim such as me to say so.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
What do you think about Quranists?
I don't get one exactly, please, kindly elaborate for me.
What is one's question, please?
Regaards
Friend @LuisDantas .
I don't get one exactly, please, kindly elaborate for me.
What is one's question, please?
Regaards
These are not necessarily the questions made by the OP, but since you show such good will, I will do my best.
You are saying that the guidance comes from the Qur'an, the Sunnah and the Ahadith. Fair enough.
What is Qur'anism then? Do you know or guess how, if at al, it contrasts with orthodox Islam?
How meaningful would the difference be? Would it involve some sort of disregard or seeking of alternatives for the Sunnah, the Ahadith or both?
From what I have seen, there is a very strong tendency in Muslims to emphasize that Ahadith can be untrustworthy and should never be considered at the expense of the Qur'an. That gives the general impression that Quranism may be mainly about emphasizing the Qur'an and avoiding reliance on any Ahadith. But I am so outside of Islam that I am probably mistaken here, or at the very least missing some significant nuance.
Do you see Quranism as a well-defined movement? Do you see it as compatible with Sunni and/or Shia Islam? Is Quranism in any way undesirable in Muslim communities?
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Yes I do. Israel is fighting one as we speak.
Anyone who thinks that killing people just because they follow the 'wrong' religion is ****ed in the head.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
A single case doesn't establish a general rule. The idea that there are no just wars implies that it is unacceptable to violently resist an invasion.
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Israel is indeed violently resisting an invasion. And not for the first time.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
You're conflating what the state of Israel is doing with what a just war would involve.
It is possible to violently resist an invasion without killing your own people or targeting the innocent on engaging in atrocity propaganda.
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Okay, please tell me what Israel was supposed to do on October 8.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe they are correct. I thinks hadiths can be treated the way protestants treat the apochrypha: finding it inteesting reading but not staking our theology on it.
Muffled
Jesus in me
It can get somewhat nasty and if the devil is at work dangerous becuase the other groups see them as heretics.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I must have missed that. I take it that is a loose interpretaion since most of the Hadiths are not written by fmaily members.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Everyone has been. Read up. BUT, no one can beat the secular wars ever in any kind of history. Only 7% all wars in the history of mankind (recorded) were religiously motivated. And Christians have been knocking the s as you phrased it for a long long time as well mate and they have been murdering others since God only knows.
Thus, your passing comment is bias and irrelevant to the topic.
firedragon
Veteran Member
The apocrypha have no provenance or a chain of narrations. So they can never in your life be compared with ahadith.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Twilight Hue said:
Yet they have been knocking the s*** out of each other for centuries.
" The Kalinga war was a conflict between the Mauryan Empire under Ashoka and the state of Kalinga. Kalinga comprises present day states of Odisha and south-eastern Andhra Pradesh."
" What can be ascertained is that the level of violence and casualties were proportionally high. As per the Rock Edicts of Ashoka, one lakh people were killed in this war, several lakhs perished and a lakh and a half were taken prisoners. "
byjus.com
Ashoka the cruel Emperor
"Ashoka killed his elder brother Sushima the legitimate heir to throne and elder son of emperor Bindusara after 3-4 years of civil war. He also killed many of his other step brothers the exact number cannot be verified. Sushima was tricked into a live coal pit and was burnt to death."
angel2100.wordpress.com
Was Ashoka a Muslim and or terrorist, please, right?
Regards
Yet they have been knocking the s*** out of each other for centuries.
Just to add ^, and how many people were killed by Ashoka:
" The Kalinga war was a conflict between the Mauryan Empire under Ashoka and the state of Kalinga. Kalinga comprises present day states of Odisha and south-eastern Andhra Pradesh."
" What can be ascertained is that the level of violence and casualties were proportionally high. As per the Rock Edicts of Ashoka, one lakh people were killed in this war, several lakhs perished and a lakh and a half were taken prisoners. "
Kalinga War | Mauryan Empire [UPSC History Notes]
The Kalinga war was a conflict between the Mauryan Empire under Ashoka and the state of Kalinga. Download PDF notes for free. For UPSC 2023 preparation, follow BYJU’S
Ashoka the cruel Emperor
"Ashoka killed his elder brother Sushima the legitimate heir to throne and elder son of emperor Bindusara after 3-4 years of civil war. He also killed many of his other step brothers the exact number cannot be verified. Sushima was tricked into a live coal pit and was burnt to death."
Ashoka the cruel Emperor
Ashoka was a very cruel prince and emperor till he converted to Buddhism in his 40s before the famous Kalinga war. Even after converting to Buddhism his cruelty did not reduce till his late …
angel2100.wordpress.com
Was Ashoka a Muslim and or terrorist, please, right?
Regards
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