What does God want from you?

[stvdv]

Example: You say God does not want yet the creation of all this has purpose. One could say God wanted or desired things to be.

That's why I made sure in my reply NOT to say "God wants (not)"

Hearts desire = Dharmic
Mental desire = Adharmic

In our heart we know what is a Dharmic Desire and which ones are Adharmic desires. Follow the heart

 

[Trailblazer]

But God's plan B was cancer and defects for innocent ancestors. That was your God's design. I would never hurt kids like your God does. Or did your God not know what it was doing?

There was no Plan A and Plan B since God did not plan anything. The process of evolution was allowed to unfold as a natural process. God only allowed it to unfold, God did not design it.

Oh yeah, God created Eden with rules for Adam and Eve that they weren't able to follow because they were naive. But not only that, God sent the Serpent to tempt them. It was all a set up. But you do understand that the Garden story is a myth, yes? It's not real.

The Garden story is an allegory, not a true story, according to my beliefs. Christians are not going to believe that because the story has to be true in order to support their theology. Get rid of Adam and Eve and the whole Christian religion comes crashing down like a house of cards.

Yeah, as if any of this is believable. The fact is that if your version of God exists and is the creator it is ultimately responsible for kids dying of cancer today. These kids did nothing wrong, yet to you it's moral that your God sits by and does nothing to stop it. Is that OK with you?

Is it okay with you that adult humans suffer, or is the only thing that matters that children die of cancer? What about who adults who suffer and die of cancer? Diseases like cancer and all the other diseases are not the result of human sin and separation from God. There is no logical connection. That is just an excuse that Christians make to cover for God.

It is not okay with me that this world is full of suffering and inequity, where some people suffer all their lives through no fault of their own, and other people hardly suffer at all and live happy lives, not because they did anything to deserve it. Any logical person can see that God is partly responsible for the suffering and inequity since God is responsible for fate.

 

[InChrist]

But God's plan B was cancer and defects for innocent ancestors. That was your God's design. I would never hurt kids like your God does. Or did your God not know what it was doing?

Oh yeah, God created Eden with rules for Adam and Eve that they weren't able to follow because they were naive. But not only that, God sent the Serpent to tempt them. It was all a set up. But you do understand that the Garden story is a myth, yes? It's not real.

Yeah, as if any of this is believable. The fact is that if your version of God exists and is the creator it is ultimately responsible for kids dying of cancer today. These kids did nothing wrong, yet to you it's moral that your God sits by and does nothing to stop it. Is that OK with you?

I am morally superior to your God.

I don’t think you are morally superior to God, certainly not a Creator God who created the universe and all life, revealed to be omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. But I do think your argument against God because this life is so cruel actually points to the reality of God’s existence. You innately sense our world should be different; it should be free from suffering. I think the desire to end suffering is a glimpse of the good God who created people to reflect His loving nature by caring for one another and that very impulse is a longing that God gave you/all of us so that we would look for something beyond the wrongs of this life. The biggest wrong being a broken relationship with God and a rejection of His wisdom.
Of course I believe the Genesis account to be a real historical account. And you are basically in the same mindset as Eve and Adam thinking you have more understanding and wisdom than God.

 

[F1fan]

I don’t think you are morally superior to God, certainly not a Creator God who created the universe and all life, revealed to be omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent.

Of course you don't, you think your idea of God is real, and it is a cruel and jealous God. What believer would dare cross it and point out how it is immoral for what it created and caused when children suffer from bad genes? You can't blame anyone but God for what it created IF you believe and insist it is the Creator of all things. All you are doing is hiding from a thug out of fear.

To my mind that is bad religion. It's your choice.

But I do think your argument against God because this life is so cruel actually points to the reality of God’s existence.

Then your agreement indicts your God as a sociopathis monster, because who would sit back and allow babies to deal with cancer and suffer and die? Not a loving being. The varents and doctors trying to save the child's life are the loving actors, not the God that caused the cancer. Oddly, if God created the cancer then wasn't it God's will to kill the baby? Wouldn't the parents and doctors trying to sve the baby's life be against God's will, and be on the wrong side of God? Why would God create a baby with genes that cause cancer if he wanted it to live?

You innately sense our world should be different; it should be free from suffering.

I never said that. I questioned why your version of God created babies with genes that cause cancer. You had no moral explanation. I can see a world where children are allowed to live until 18 or so without disease, and then all bets are off once they are adults. But no, babies are in nature's crosshairs like anyone else, they get no special treatment even though we humans see babies as vulnerable and in our protective care. Obviously God doesn't agree they are special.

I think the desire to end suffering is a glimpse of the good God who created people to reflect His loving nature by caring for one another and that very impulse is a longing that God gave you/all of us so that we would look for something beyond the wrongs of this life.

A lot of suffering has been eliminated or minimized through science and technology, so is this effort against God? We humans are animals and we are born, we age, we live, and we die. How we manage our lives is usually ways to improve our comfort and longevity. What in nature can be said to be "God's love"? Bacterial infection? Viruses? How about predators like bears, rabid animals, sharks, large felines, etc. The deck is staked against life, and breeding is the only way for nature to fight back. Humans are no different, and we have used our thinking to protect us from the nature God put us in. Loving? It is a war, and so far humans are winning, and winning to such a degree that we are becoming our own biggest threat, not God's nature.

What is religion doing to help humanity see the light and make wiser choices? Nothing. Arguably many Christian extremists (evangelicals) are adding to the threat by claiming the Rapture is coming and not to worry about climate change and over-population. Stupid advice. Science has been pointing to growing problems that many Christians ignore, and that makes anti-science religion part of the threat for the future. I'm not worried about a loving God, I'm worried about many irrational humans who are blind to reality due to bad religion.

The biggest wrong being a broken relationship with God and a rejection of His wisdom.

If what you and other Christian extremists believe is supopsedly a good relationshi with a God, then we are in big trouble. It also backs up how your version of God is socioathic and not loving in the sense that humans are loving. Your God's kind of "love" is not anything a decent human will recognize.

Of course I believe the Genesis account to be a real historical account.

And your belief is wrong according to facts and data. But you don't care, you want the comfort of a bad interpretation of an ancient text rather than cold, hard reality. This is why Christian extremists can't be trusted to make decisions for the future.

And you are basically in the same mindset as Eve and Adam thinking you have more understanding and wisdom than God.

False, they were prohibited from knowledge, and you deliberately blind yourself to knowledge. They as naive humans is much closer to you than me. I deliberately inform myself of fact and reality while you deliberately hide from reality, thus your decisions will be poorly made, just like A&E. Your naive, faith-based thinking is what that story warned of, and your faith blinds you from understanding it. Oh the irony of Christians interpreting the Old Testament the wrong way. I suggest you listen to Jews, it is their book after all.

 

[Bird123]

If you are happy in your process than I have nothing to offer. It's when you tell me I need to follow your advice when I didn't ask it that I will challenge you.

Is that a serious question? Think of the alternative.

Limits? What are you talking about? This is as clear as Chopra speak.

You get around this by calling your beliefs "truth". Many religious people do this. Get past that impulse and temptation then maybe you will make real progress.

You exist. Is that a Belief or a Fact??? Is this an impulse that I know you exist? Is there some sort of temptation that I say you exist? No, I have evidence that you do exist.

Say I tell my neighbor about you. To my neighbor, you are a belief since my neighbor does not really know you exist. Now my neighbor can say Bird123 you are crazy. F1fan does not exist. You are making all this up. In reality, you do exist and that is a fact regardless of the beliefs of anyone else. Truth will not always be an agreeable thing to all.

You assume what I have been giving you are beliefs when in reality I have been giving you what is. Just like my neighbor, you will only have beliefs until you Discover for yourself.

You are right. Religion has taught many people to value beliefs above all else. Discovery takes work. It's so much easier to stop at beliefs claiming beliefs are the truth. You forget I am one who always needed to know rather than merely believe. I will do the work necessary to have the Real Truth.

I ran into a world war 2 veteran years ago. I asked him how could anyone follow Hitler? He said that if you tell someone something long enough that they will believe it to be the truth regardless of whether it is true or not. How long has religions been teaching people that Beliefs are the most important thing? Haven't people been taught this from childhood? How many are limiting themselves with this thinking? How many really seek Truth over what they want to believe? These are all lessons to learn.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

That's why I made sure in my reply NOT to say "God wants (not)"

Hearts desire = Dharmic
Mental desire = Adharmic

In our heart we know what is a Dharmic Desire and which ones are Adharmic desires. Follow the heart

One should always lead with the reason half. If one leads with the feeling half, one could become lost in a sea of emotion. It's never fun being lost.

Should not one lead with Mental desire =Adharmic? Worry not for the Hearts desire= Dharmic could never be ignored.

Think, then act brings better results than reacting. I have found this to be true.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

You are right. Religion has taught many people to value beliefs above all else. Discovery takes work. It's so much easier to stop at beliefs claiming beliefs are the truth.

You have your own belief system and it is called Discovery. It's so much easier to 'believe' that Discovery will lead you to the truth than to be a member of a religion and do the work that is required to follow that religion.

You forget I am one who always needed to know rather than merely believe. I will do the work necessary to have the Real Truth.

And you think you 'know' because you 'believe' you have Discovered the Real Truth.
What if Mr. X Discovers something that contradicts what you have Discovered, who has the Real Truth, you or Mr. X?

 

[F1fan]

You exist. Is that a Belief or a Fact??? Is this an impulse that I know you exist? Is there some sort of temptation that I say you exist? No, I have evidence that you do exist.

Someone is writing these posts, that's all the matters when we debate ideas. That person thinking and writing exists. It shouldn't be something that distracts and confuses you.

Humans write posts. Thus far we have no writings from gods, angels, trolls (outside the internet), Hobbits, elves, leprechauns, or any other imaginary character.

Say I tell my neighbor about you. To my neighbor, you are a belief since my neighbor does not really know you exist. Now my neighbor can say Bird123 you are crazy. F1fan does not exist. You are making all this up. In reality, you do exist and that is a fact regardless of the beliefs of anyone else. Truth will not always be an agreeable thing to all.

Sounds like your neighbor has some problems, or you are very poor at describing other humans. Is it so hard to tell another person that you have encountered another person on the internet? Say it aint so.

You assume what I have been giving you are beliefs when in reality I have been giving you what is. Just like my neighbor, you will only have beliefs until you Discover for yourself.

You continue to over-estimate your ability.

You are right. Religion has taught many people to value beliefs above all else. Discovery takes work. It's so much easier to stop at beliefs claiming beliefs are the truth. You forget I am one who always needed to know rather than merely believe. I will do the work necessary to have the Real Truth.

This "Real Truth" that you never reveal, as if it is a hoax. You might as well be pointing at the sunset and say that I need to go catch the sun.

I ran into a world war 2 veteran years ago. I asked him how could anyone follow Hitler? He said that if you tell someone something long enough that they will believe it to be the truth regardless of whether it is true or not. How long has religions been teaching people that Beliefs are the most important thing? Haven't people been taught this from childhood? How many are limiting themselves with this thinking? How many really seek Truth over what they want to believe? These are all lessons to learn.

May people need to be followers. Many can't see it in themselves as they adopt ideas likes God and Truth.

 

[stvdv]

One should always lead with the reason half. If one leads with the feeling half, one could become lost in a sea of emotion. It's never fun being lost

I mean with "heart guidance" the deep inner knowing

Follow feelings is still mentally, emotionally. For example "It feels good to eat lots of ice-cream". But that's short term. Long term my heart knows I better don't do that

Of course it's good to use our senses and discrimination faculties, for example when driving the car or going for exams

But in the reply you replied to I was not talking about mundane things, but about spirital life

 

[Lotus Jewel]

OK. God creates the universe and God creates you. What does God want from you?

If you are an atheist, speculate. If God really exists and creates the universe and God creates you. What does God want from you?

Before you just give a quick answer, consider a Being capable of creating the universe and you has to be very very smart. Consider High Intellect with your answers. Make God's answer High Intellect.

I don't see that it follows necessarily that the creator of the universe (if such a being exists) must necessarily want anything from me. What do I have to give that the creator couldn't get for itself?

Perhaps, we can speculate that the creator would like for humans to do good, practice justice, and show mercy, but I don't know how we could ever show that this was more than speculation about the creator.

However, when I consider what humans could possibly give the creator that the creator needs - I can only think of a few things that a wise being should be able to appreciate even if they wouldn't need it. That would be more love, kindness, and understanding in the world.

 

[CG Didymus]

According to the scriptures, God created the first humans without defects.

Yes, in the Bible.

But God's plan B was cancer and defects for innocent ancestors. That was your God's design. I would never hurt kids like your God does. Or did your God not know what it was doing?

So then what Scriptures are Baha'is using to say that God used evolution? That is... other than their own. And, if there aren't any, then that makes them all wrong, except the Baha'i Scriptures, that is, if they do say that God used evolution... and disease and wars and famines and other things that allowed for the strongest and fittest to have a higher chance of surviving and to pass on their genes?

 

[Bird123]

You have your own belief system and it is called Discovery. It's so much easier to 'believe' that Discovery will lead you to the truth than to be a member of a religion and do the work that is required to follow that religion.

And you think you 'know' because you 'believe' you have Discovered the Real Truth.
What if Mr. X Discovers something that contradicts what you have Discovered, who has the Real Truth, you or Mr. X?

Is it easier for you to Believe I have a belief system? Why? Perhaps, it's just because you do not want what I have said to be true. That's OK!! Truth will not always be an agreeable thing.

I was raised in religion. I am no stranger to Christianity. There is so much of religions that simply do not add up. Have you Questioned any of them or do you follow and accept?

I walk toward Truth and Knowledge. Real truth will add up. I have learned much on my Journey. I have learned much about God, people, and religion. I have learned there is purpose behind everything. Eternity has purpose. There will always be something to do.

On my journey, I have Discovered the math to a Higher Level. I have seen this Higher Level with my contact with God. I have seen Intelligence so High that I must struggle to keep up. I will always walk forward. One who must know rather than merely believe can not walk backward. It is no longer a viable choice. Why not? It would not be an Intelligent thing to do.

Do I fear Mr. X. Of course not. I welcome that interaction. Perhaps, I will see a view that I am missing. If there is contradiction and Mr. X's math adds up, you can be sure I will investigate. Burden of proof rests on the one who seeks. I always seek what is, over any beliefs. What Mr. X says will be a belief until I discover for myself.

My journey has always been the same. People I bump into along the way is just an opportunity for everyone to learn something. Knowledge and Discovery only opens more doors to more knowledge that can be Discovered.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[muhammad_isa]

These kids did nothing wrong, yet to you it's moral that your God sits by and does nothing to stop it. Is that OK with you?

Have I got a choice?
If somebody attacks me in the street, can I change it?

You harp on about "your God", yet it is quite OK that this all happens by chance, without reason..
It is not God that is responsible for these nasties .. it is satan .. you speak for satan.

 

[muhammad_isa]

A lot of suffering has been eliminated or minimized through science and technology..

..and a lot of suffering has been CAUSED by science and technology..
i.e. the industrial revolution has led to climate change, for example

What is religion doing to help humanity see the light and make wiser choices? Nothing..

Clearly, you are spiritually blind.
If mankind were living as they should be, we would not be in this rotten mess!

 

[Bird123]

Someone is writing these posts, that's all the matters when we debate ideas. That person thinking and writing exists. It shouldn't be something that distracts and confuses you.

Humans write posts. Thus far we have no writings from gods, angels, trolls (outside the internet), Hobbits, elves, leprechauns, or any other imaginary character.

Sounds like your neighbor has some problems, or you are very poor at describing other humans. Is it so hard to tell another person that you have encountered another person on the internet? Say it aint so.

You continue to over-estimate your ability.

This "Real Truth" that you never reveal, as if it is a hoax. You might as well be pointing at the sunset and say that I need to go catch the sun.

May people need to be followers. Many can't see it in themselves as they adopt ideas likes God and Truth.

Where there is smoke, there is fire. Can so many people be so wrong that one can discount even the possibility God exists? Sure, I have found no religion that really understands God but that is OK. How many things in this world are not fully understood? A person's attempt at Understanding is a valid quest regardless of the path taken. It has never been about what is right. It's about what is.

Do I overestimate my ability? Quite the opposite I too much stretch in order to reach. The truth I have placed in the world did not come easily. I have pointed to a starting point. No one pointed for me. Discovery is much more than a set of beliefs handed to one by others to accept or reject.

The Real Truth is around us all. It is far from being a hoax. Wisdom is acquired along the journey to Discover the Real Truth.

Free choice. It comes down to what one chooses to seek. I say Know yourself. Be true to yourself. Decide what you really seek, then your true path can begin.

This world has never been about Discovering God, though many might choose to do so.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

I don't see that it follows necessarily that the creator of the universe (if such a being exists) must necessarily want anything from me. What do I have to give that the creator couldn't get for itself?

Perhaps, we can speculate that the creator would like for humans to do good, practice justice, and show mercy, but I don't know how we could ever show that this was more than speculation about the creator.

However, when I consider what humans could possibly give the creator that the creator needs - I can only think of a few things that a wise being should be able to appreciate even if they wouldn't need it. That would be more love, kindness, and understanding in the world.

Yes, God wants or needs nothing. This physical world and universe was created for us and not God.

Your quote:That would be more love, kindness, and understanding in the world.

My Answer: Yes, you are definitely headed in the right direction.


God's greatest moment is when that light bulb goes off over one of His children's head and they Understand.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

But God's plan B was cancer and defects for innocent ancestors. That was your God's design. I would never hurt kids like your God does. Or did your God not know what it was doing?

Oh yeah, God created Eden with rules for Adam and Eve that they weren't able to follow because they were naive. But not only that, God sent the Serpent to tempt them. It was all a set up. But you do understand that the Garden story is a myth, yes? It's not real.

Yeah, as if any of this is believable. The fact is that if your version of God exists and is the creator it is ultimately responsible for kids dying of cancer today. These kids did nothing wrong, yet to you it's moral that your God sits by and does nothing to stop it. Is that OK with you?

I am morally superior to your God.

This. ^

 

[F1fan]

Where there is smoke, there is fire. Can so many people be so wrong that one can discount even the possibility God exists? Sure, I have found no religion that really understands God but that is OK.

How is it that so many religions and their billions of believers don't have it right, but somehow you as an individual do? Notice you offer no details about what you think you understand. At least religions will offer some details. Believers will make their claims to varying degrees of detail. But you? Nothing. Could it be that not knowing anything is how you understand God? What a fun idea.

How many things in this world are not fully understood?

Well according to my 326 ex-girlfriends, there's me. No wait, it's 327, because identical twins count as two, so I have been told. So at least one thing, to answer your question.

A person's attempt at Understanding is a valid quest regardless of the path taken. It has never been about what is right. It's about what is.

A disregard for being right about how things are means massive confusion. We have so much knowledge at our fingertips, there is no excuse to believe false things about the universe.

Do I overestimate my ability? Quite the opposite I too much stretch in order to reach. The truth I have placed in the world did not come easily. I have pointed to a starting point. No one pointed for me. Discovery is much more than a set of beliefs handed to one by others to accept or reject.

I don't think you understand what hubris means.

The Real Truth is around us all. It is far from being a hoax. Wisdom is acquired along the journey to Discover the Real Truth.

I am always suspicious when a verson puts an adjective on a word that already reliably means something. Truth has a reliable meaning as it is. When you say "real" truth, well, in my experience with believers who do thei they are trying to smuggle in some other meanings, and that means dogma and assumvtions that are misleading and usually not true. It is a way to over-compensate for ideas that lack evidence. A dubious concept that lacks evidence can be called "Real Truth" and that is supposed to mean it IS true and beyond question? Sorry, no. It raises red flags.

Free choice. It comes down to what one chooses to seek. I say Know yourself. Be true to yourself. Decide what you really seek, then your true path can begin.

Very vague, fortune cookie statement. No substance. Do you realize a racist can take your advice and become an even more confident racist, and will perhaps commit crimes against those they target?

This world has never been about Discovering God, though many might choose to do so.

Really? You said at the top that religions do a bad job at understanding God. So who are these people that get it right, and do so accidently because you certainly offer no details?

 

[F1fan]

Have I got a choice?

Yes you do. You can read the stories in ancient texts about a God and realize they do not make sense in the 21st century.

If somebody attacks me in the street, can I change it?

You can be prepared. Your choice.

You harp on about "your God", yet it is quite OK that this all happens by chance, without reason..

I am presenting a rebuttal to the claim that the God of Abraham is moral and loving, especially when it is claimed that it is the creator, and has the power to make changes, but does nothing. Nature has no moral intent, so while cancers are tragic it is a random ottery of life that can befall any of us without notice. It's much easier to reconcile nature without a God than with one like Christians and Muslims believe in.

It is not God that is responsible for these nasties .. it is satan .. you speak for satan.

Yeah, this old "passing the buck" claim? What created Satan? God. The buck stops at God's desk. Hitler and Charles Manson never killed their victims, but they are held accountable for what they caused.

 

[Trailblazer]

Is it easier for you to Believe I have a belief system? Why? Perhaps, it's just because you do not want what I have said to be true. That's OK!! Truth will not always be an agreeable thing.

Th reason it is a belief system is because it is only what you believe. Instead of a religious belief system it is your personal belief system.
You say you have Truth but you never explain how you got that Truth.

I was raised in religion. I am no stranger to Christianity. There is so much of religions that simply do not add up. Have you Questioned any of them or do you follow and accept?

There are things that do not make sense to me in religions, but I do not throw the baby out with the bath water, because there are a lot of good things that religions teach. I questioned my religion before I accepted and followed it, and I continue to question it as I learn more and more.

I walk toward Truth and Knowledge. Real truth will add up. I have learned much on my Journey. I have learned much about God, people, and religion. I have learned there is purpose behind everything. Eternity has purpose. There will always be something to do.

What you call Real Truth is what you believe you have Discovered about God, people, and religion, but there is no reason for anyone else to believe it is the Real Truth.

On my journey, I have Discovered the math to a Higher Level. I have seen this Higher Level with my contact with God. I have seen Intelligence so High that I must struggle to keep up. I will always walk forward. One who must know rather than merely believe can not walk backward. It is no longer a viable choice. Why not? It would not be an Intelligent thing to do.

So now you 'believe' that you have had contact with God? That is where we part ways as I do not believe that God contacts anyone except His chosen ones, and those are His Prophets and Messengers.

Do I fear Mr. X. Of course not. I welcome that interaction. Perhaps, I will see a view that I am missing. If there is contradiction and Mr. X's math adds up, you can be sure I will investigate. Burden of proof rests on the one who seeks. I always seek what is, over any beliefs. What Mr. X says will be a belief until I discover for myself.

What is to you is not what is to other people, so it is your own personal belief that you call Truth.

My journey has always been the same. People I bump into along the way is just an opportunity for everyone to learn something. Knowledge and Discovery only opens more doors to more knowledge that can be Discovered.

We all learn from other people yet you close the door on the possibility that there can be any Truth in any religion.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!