What does God want from you?

[Trailblazer]

Yep. Same here. Except the street preaching. We were encouraged to have personal one on one conversations.

How does a person have a 'personal relationship' with Jesus?
I can see how you could talk to Jesus but I don't see how he could talk back.
Such is the nature of indoctrination. You don't have to think, you just believe.

 

[ppp]

How does a person have a 'personal relationship' with Jesus?
I can see how you could talk to Jesus but I don't see how he could talk back.
Such is the nature of indoctrination. You don't have to think, you just believe.

I agree, You realize, of course, that I would put a 'personal relationship' with Jesus in the same box as Baha'i Messengers or a belief that one is in possession of a rationally based belief in a god. Did you phrase things that way just to see if I would comment?

 

[Trailblazer]

I agree, You realize, of course, that I would put a 'personal relationship' with Jesus in the same box as Baha'i Messengers or a belief that one is in possession of a rationally based belief in a god. Did you phrase things that way just to see if I would comment?

No, I did not phrase things that way just to see if you would comment. In fact, I had explained that Baha'is don't claim to have a 'personal relationship' with Baha'u'llah the way that Christians claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus, but I decided to delete that from my post.

Baha'is only claim to be able to 'know about God' through Baha'u'llah, but that's not the same as having a 'personal relationship' with Baha'u'llah.

 

[ppp]

No, I did not phrase things that way just to see if you would comment. In fact, I had explained that Baha'is don't claim to have a 'personal relationship' with Baha'u'llah the way that Christians claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus, but I decided to delete that from my post.

Baha'is only claim to be able to 'know about God' through Baha'u'llah, but that's not the same as having a 'personal relationship' with Baha'u'llah.

I wasn't suggesting that you think you have a 'personal relationship' with Baha'u'llah. I consider the Baha'i belief that messengers are real things to be no more justified than the members of Christian sects who believe that they have personal relationships with Jesus.

 

[F1fan]

I was a devout evangelical Christian for thirty years, and I was as devoted a Christian as InChrist appears to be, so I'm familiar with her beliefs. I can't speak for her, but I was undoubtedly indoctrinated to believe what I believed while I was in church. Having a "personal relationship with Jesus" wasn't something that I learned on my own. It was a frequently preached and promoted message in church, Sunday school, and in the Bible study groups I attended. It was also mentioned on occasion in the evangelism training course that I completed in order to lead an evangelism team and street preach. I was taught that "Christianity is a relationship, not a religion," so that is what I believed and what I preached while street preaching. It was a common theme that I used.

I was told similar things. I just had the bad sense to look around for an actual Jesus, who never showed up. It was interesting to me how the things I was told I took more seriously than others around me, in that I expected these things to be outside of my imagination. So religion never took.

 

[Trailblazer]

I just had the bad sense to look around for an actual Jesus, who never showed up.

You mean you had the good sense to look around for an actual Jesus, who never showed up.

 

[Bird123]

But as we both know, you have no more clue as to what real entity ─ as distinct from conceptual/imaginary ─ God might be than I have.

You and I are simply examples of H sap sap, communicating by electronic media, and proceeding within familiar categories of behavior.

But you can't tell me what real thing God is. God doesn't have a description appropriate to a real entity, height, weight, shoe size, number of limbs, number of heads, breeding habits. God is imaginary and is described in imaginary terms ─ omnipotent, omniscient, perfect, infinite, blah blah.

I do not have proof that WHAT exactly doesn't exist? At least if I find a yeti, a bigfoot, or even a pterodactyl or an ivory-beaked woodpecker, I'll have means of determining what it is I've found. But when you say God has objective existence, is an entity that can be encountered in person in the world external to the self, well a photo, a video, is possible, some skin or saliva for DNA testing.

But if as I keep pointing out, God exists simply as an idea in various human brains, well, we'd be exactly where we are now with God.

Look at WHAT?


Have you studied the evolution of flying insects? Of spiders airborne on their own gossamer? Of birds? Of bats? Of glider snakes and possums? The evidence, the history, the critters, are out there. And they existed long before humans invented gods.

Yes, I can see that. But Frxnqot is every bit as real ─ or imaginary ─ as God, no more, no less.

Perhaps you should get in the real world rather than stay in this imaginary world you seem to like so well.

When all the facts are not known, one uses Beliefs to patch the gap in knowledge. Without beliefs, one would lock up just like my old computer when all the facts were not known. People in their search to find and understand God have used beliefs to patch the gap. So often the beliefs used reflects the person because they use beliefs they want to be true.

Discovery takes work. It's easier for them and you to sit on your beliefs than take the steps necessary to Discover the answers.

If God exists, then God can be found. God does exist and God can be found and not as a belief or mere idea. On the other hand, true knowledge isn't just served up as all those beliefs you like so well. Perhaps that is why all those stories about God do not add up at all.

Open to all possibilities? I think not. I have found no religion that understands God at all. If you base God on all that you have heard in the past, I understand why you think God does not exist. On the other hand, If you value and seek truth, you must be open to the possibility God does exist.

If you get in the real world and look at what is, God's actions can be seen. Since God created the universe and world. Everything about this world and the universe speak to who God is. Do not choose to be blind in favor of what you want to be the truth. Knowledge lives beyond the mere surface that so many can only see.

How long did mankind watch birds fly before they figured out how? God placed the knowledge out there so it could be Discovered. Perhaps, it's all a test of Intelligence. Who can see? Who has the widest view and the advanced thinking to understand?

You might choose to value the imaginary, however I only care about what is!! It is just who I am.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[InChrist]

I was a devout evangelical Christian for thirty years, and I was as devoted a Christian as InChrist appears to be, so I'm familiar with her beliefs. I can't speak for her, but I was undoubtedly indoctrinated to believe what I believed while I was in church. Having a "personal relationship with Jesus" wasn't something that I learned on my own. It was a frequently preached and promoted message in church, Sunday school, and in the Bible study groups I attended. It was also mentioned on occasion in the evangelism training course that I completed in order to lead an evangelism team and street preach. I was taught that "Christianity is a relationship, not a religion," so that is what I believed and what I preached while street preaching. It was a common theme that I used.

That may have been your experience, but it wasn’t mine. I wasn’t raised in an evangelical church. I never heard about having a relationship with Jesus. Not until my later twenties/early thirties did I even meet on occasion those odd born again Christians; one woman I bought farm eggs from who talked about Bible studies she was doing, another friend who held channeling events at her home got “saved” then one day started telling me all about Jesus, the spiritual battle taking place, and so on. I definitely thought they were weird fanatics or something. I was involved in new age thinking at the time, as well as having experience with cult groups. I had never been in an evangelical or biblical church in my life.
A few years later, Jesus Himself reached into my life right where I was and saved me. Not only me, both my husband and I were born again to new life in Christ on the same day at home.

 

[Bird123]

Atheists don't have beliefs, but they do have opinions. We all have opinions, even you!

Beliefs are only a starting point and unless one puts their beliefs into practice they serve no purpose.
The value of beliefs is explained in the following letter.

"Our past is not the thing that matters so much in this world as what we intend to do with our future. The inestimable value of religion is that when a man is vitally connected with it, through a real and living belief in it and in the Prophet Who brought it, he receives a strength greater than his own which helps him to develop his good characteristics and overcome his bad ones. The whole purpose of religion is to change not only our thoughts but our acts; when we believe in God and His Prophet and His Teachings, we find we are growing, even though we perhaps thought ourselves incapable of growth and change!"

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, October 3, 1943)

Lights of Guidance (second part):A Bahá'í Reference File

What is more valuable? Believing and Practicing OR Knowing, thereby only the Best choices are viable choices one could make?

You can tell someone. You can teach them to practice your ways. You can have them practice all your little beliefs. They will never be able to make the best choices until they Understand all sides. When one understands all sides, Intelligence will make the Best choices. It has never ever been about Believing. It's about Knowing!!!! If one does not understand a side, one will choose that side as soon as one is free to do so just to Discover what they do not know.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[ppp]

What is more valuable? Believing and Practicing OR Knowing, thereby only the Best choices are viable choices one could make?

Having a reliable methodology for determining if one if justified in accepting a claim.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I was told similar things. I just had the bad sense to look around for an actual Jesus, who never showed up. It was interesting to me how the things I was told I took more seriously than others around me, in that I expected these things to be outside of my imagination. So religion never took.

At least you had the sense to question and doubt what you were being taught. I, on the other hand, was taught that it was wrong to question and doubt God. I was supposed to have unwavering faith in him. And when my prayers weren't answered, I was told that I didn't have faith or that I had unconfessed sin in my life that prevented him from answering my prayers. I can remember, as an abused child, constantly thinking that I had to have more faith in God, but I didn't know how to get it. I kept thinking that I must be doing something wrong and that he must be angry with me, and that's why he never answers my prayers. I remember thinking that I must be a bad child, just like my mother said I was, if God doesn't even want to help me. Despite my hurt feelings, I was so firmly indoctrinated that I continued praying to God, continued to read and study the Bible, and faithfully attended church while growing up and for many years as an adult. I was a devout Christian for thirty years before I finally decided to disavow my belief and faith in God and leave Christianity.

 

[InChrist]

Yet somehow you ended up believing in exactly the dogma that Christian evangelical leaders claim is truth. Just a coincidence?

Let's note that the claims of evangelical Christianity, like interpreting Genesis literally, assuming the stroies reveal a factual scenario, that the Gospels explain a story that actually happened as stated, etc. None of this is true or consistent with reality. Much of the basis for these beliefs is ONLY interpreting the Bible a certain way, and rejecting certain theories in science, only those theories that challenge a literalist view.

Yet it is an idea that is believed by so many people ONLY because Christian leaders tell their believers it's true. Jews don't believe it. Muslims don't believe it. It's all irrelevant to eastern religions. Yet you ended up believing.

A more common thing these days as religion is more and more seen in a negative light. But you hold religious ideas, so you can't divorce yourself from religion and still admit you hold religious ideas.

The "close and personal relationship with Jesus, my lord and savior" is an old belief that has been waning in recent years. I don't hear Christians claim this any more. You learned this from religious leaders, yet you say they aren't an influence, and that you aren't religious. You must be the most religious person who isn't religions on the forum.

It only makes sense that those who are born again in Christ would be like minded and have common beliefs. It’s not because of religious leaders, nor religion. Christ is the Head of the church, the Body of Christ composed of believers anywhere and everywhere around the world and throughout history.

…And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. Colossians 1:18

So, you have a relationshi with Jesus, right? What exactly are you, as a mortal, relating to? What form does Jesus take so he can relate to a mortal, like yourself?

Since I am physical I cannot see the form of Jesus in the spiritual realm. I relate to my loving, caring Savior and Creator, through prayer and sharing thoughts, concerns or whatever else is on my mind.

How can churches survive? I notice the megachurches are doing OK, but the local church on the corner are dying out. I notice the megachurches are using their megachurches for commercial activities, like child care, classes of various types, summer activities for kids, etc. I think they should be taxed since they are now businesses that compete with other businesses.

Could this be why you don't want to admit you are religious, or learned what you believe from religious leaders?

I don’t attend a megachurch. I go to a small community that’s been around for over a century. The people love Jesus, God’s word, each other and their neighbors.

According to Genesis sin was a consequence of the disobedicne of Adam and Eve. And they were disobedient because they were not capable of knowing the consequences due to their ignorance and innocence. That means when God created the Serpent, and sent the Serpent to tempt A&E, they didn't stand a chance. Sin was caused by acts of God. And who designed all creation? God.

But he did it, so your belief of what God is must be flawed. Could it be the Serpent has decieved you?

Again, I will reiterate that I do not believe A&E were ignorant. They were disobedient because they lusted after the power of God… instead of trusting God even though they KNEW His goodness and love. Same as Lucifer. He knew God Alone was the Creator, yet lusted to have God’s place for himself, which is impossible. God may have created the serpent, but it was just another animal until satan entered into it to deceive and tempt Eve. God allowed it, but He did not create the evil or sin …that began with Lucifer who fell into iniquity.

But we all sin, we can't escape it. So we have no freedom from that. How is that love by God?

Who says? Love is causing pain?

All as God created.

It’s love because love must be given freely, it cannot be forced. Forced love is no love at at. God values freedom and I think He considers it of upmost importance that human beings choose and have the opportunity to respond to Him and His love freely. All that He offers: eternal love, joy, peace, beauty, wholeness, creativity, and more must be willingly chosen and received. Sin and all the evils it entails is the absence of God’s goodness.

Many of these people are strict Christians like you. Look at how many evangelicals deny climate change, and don't care because they believe Jesus is coming back soon, so don't worry about damaging the environment.

And liberals want to eliminate deadly chemicals, but the right, which is tied to evangelical Christians, are more concerned about corporate profits than life and liberty. Are you on the side of democrats and liberals who want to clean up the environment?

It used to be that liberals were the environmentalists, not anymore. Now the Democrats are just as corrupt and into corporatism as the Republicans, pushing big Pharma, the military-industrial complex, and exploiting people and resources in other countries. It has nothing to do with Christians. I’m on the side, whatever side that is, that shows good stewardship and care for God’s creation.
God says He will destroy those who destroy the earth. ( Revelation 11:18)

 

[Trailblazer]

What is more valuable? Believing and Practicing OR Knowing, thereby only the Best choices are viable choices one could make?

Knowing.

You can tell someone. You can teach them to practice your ways. You can have them practice all your little beliefs. They will never be able to make the best choices until they Understand all sides.

Nobody is 'telling' anyone to practice our ways or our beliefs. That is a choice. They should look at all sides before making the choice that is best for them.

When one understands all sides, Intelligence will make the Best choices. It has never ever been about Believing. It's about Knowing!!!! If one does not understand a side, one will choose that side as soon as one is free to do so just to Discover what they do not know.

What is this thing you call Intelligence? How does it make the Best choices? What are the Best choices. How do you think you Know?

 

[blü 2]

Perhaps you should get in the real world rather than stay in this imaginary world you seem to like so well.

But the real world is precisely where you can't find God ─ and that's assuming you had the vaguest clue what exactly you were looking for.

Which you certainly appear not to. Please show me I'm wrong by describing God to me such that if I find a real suspect I can determine whether it's God or not.

Actually, I've asked you that before. Why did you not answer? You silence indicates you don't know ─ is that correct?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

OK. God creates the universe and God creates you. What does God want from you?

If you are an atheist, speculate. If God really exists and creates the universe and God creates you. What does God want from you?

Before you just give a quick answer, consider a Being capable of creating the universe and you has to be very very smart. Consider High Intellect with your answers. Make God's answer High Intellect.

Well, I'm not a monotheist but I'll chime in.

I don't believe the Gods have wants or desires directed towards individual humans. From what I recall, the Norse creation myth, when it came to humans, says that we were not given a set fate by the Gods after they created the original man and woman and gifted them with spirit, will, intelligence and the senses, they're kind of left to make their own way.

This doesn't mean that the Gods don't care about humans, but it's certainly not the same as the Abramahic dynamic.

 

[Gassim]

That isn't unfortunate. Providing answers about the nature of reality is the realm of physics, Atheism is just the state of not accepting any god claims.

Creation Ex Nihilo is a theistic belief. It makes no sense to ask an atheist if he affirms theism. That is a question for your fellow theists. Nothing to do with atheists.


That is quite literally an illegitimate question.

1. Your question is based on a false understanding or a misrepresentation of the Big Bang theory. There is no part of the Big Bang Theory that states or implies that the universe began to exist. The Big Bang Theory begins with the entire mass/energy of the universe already existing in a single point, and proceeds from their.
2. Your presumption of "who" is irrational. The question, What is(are) the cause(s) of the existence of the mass/energy,fields/forces that comprise the universe, if any.

unintelligible means "unable to be understood". matter is intelligible.

Rejected due to a lack of evidence and reasoning

You find things that are true, hard to believe. You are in the company of my flat-earther bartender and my first grade teacher who didn't believe it was possible that I could read..

Do you personally understand any of the subjects that you are wrestling? You are quoting creationist pamphlets.

 

[Gassim]

That isn't unfortunate. Providing answers about the nature of reality is the realm of physics, Atheism is just the state of not accepting any god claims.

Creation Ex Nihilo is a theistic belief. It makes no sense to ask an atheist if he affirms theism. That is a question for your fellow theists. Nothing to do with atheists.


That is quite literally an illegitimate question.

1. Your question is based on a false understanding or a misrepresentation of the Big Bang theory. There is no part of the Big Bang Theory that states or implies that the universe began to exist. The Big Bang Theory begins with the entire mass/energy of the universe already existing in a single point, and proceeds from their.
2. Your presumption of "who" is irrational. The question, What is(are) the cause(s) of the existence of the mass/energy,fields/forces that comprise the universe, if any.

unintelligible means "unable to be understood". matter is intelligible.

Rejected due to a lack of evidence and reasoning

You find things that are true, hard to believe. You are in the company of my flat-earther bartender and my first grade teacher who didn't believe it was possible that I could read..

Do you personally understand any of the subjects that you are wrestling? You are quoting creationist pamphlets.

Refer to the answer of a fellow atheist that Creation Ex Nihilo is a theistic belief. It makes no sense to ask an atheist if he affirms theism. That is a question for your fellow theists. Nothing to do with atheists.
This means it is a blind believe and atheists can not defend their faith. This is dogmatic ( a state of intellectual immobiliy in which a person is so fanatical about his own idea that he refuses to see contrary idea).

 

[osgart]

A benevolent God with supreme character would definitely desire that beings draw closer to the truth. God's goal would be to have equal relationship eventually; people to have true relationships with whom God can call true friends.

God wouldn't possibly want inferior character for all of eternity. God certainly wouldn't want enemies of his very soul, truth and existence.

God's truth would have to be the virtues. Those are the ways God wants us to discover and walk.
They are not hard to grasp only if you have the strongest conviction that they exist. If you put truth first and foremost above all things then you begin to be rewarded by discovering them. It's not enough to discover them. Then you have to become a person of the ways of virtues. Truth is the basis of trust and deserve. The utmost desire for a virtuous life is what a God wants.

Truth is of fair justice and the basis of everlasting peace and relationship. Truth has ultimate consequences and ultimate rewards. Universal Salvation is what God wants. Reject evil does not go unpunished.

Truth can be the loneliest of roads, but it's the only genuine road there is.

Whatever true victories people earn in their lives if they be truth it's to the honor of that person. God wants to give life and honor to those who are true. Whether through justice, or mercy, or earned right God wants equals.

Nature itself isn't exactly truthful. It's not looking out for your best interests. It is indifferent and hostile to the existence of life. Perhaps free will is letting people decide for themselves what road to choose with all roads being available. To choose truth is what God wants because it's the only genuine way of things.

However I'm not a believer in God's existence. A benevolent God would not create such a place as this. A God of no fair justice is not a God at all.

The issues of truth are unavoidable though. Everyone sane wants fair justice and not to live a lie, but to live what's true. What's true can never be forced or contrived.

Perhaps there is a God, but it'd be beyond comprehension in many ways. Who knows?

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't believe the Gods have wants or desires directed towards individual humans. From what I recall, the Norse creation myth, when it came to humans, says that we were not given a set fate by the Gods after they created the original man and woman and gifted them with spirit, will, intelligence and the senses, they're kind of left to make their own way.

This doesn't mean that the Gods don't care about humans, but it's certainly not the same as the Abramahic dynamic.

It may not be the same as the Christian dynamic, but it is close to the Baha'i dynamic.
I don't believe the God has wants or desires directed towards individual humans.
We are left to make our own way, although I believe we get assistance from God, guidance, especially if we pray for it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It may not be the same as the Christian dynamic, but it is close to the Baha'i dynamic.
I don't believe the God has wants or desires directed towards individual humans.
We are left to make our own way, although I believe we get assistance from God, guidance, especially if we pray for it.

Yeah, but you have your prophets and messangers who present God as having wants and desires for human beings. I no longer believe in mediators.