What does God want from you?

[ppp]

I agree that living the results are a very effective way for parents to teach their children. If they don't live the teachings, probably the children will see the hypocrisy and reject the teaching.

If you are not teaching your children to recognize the difference between evaluating the ideal and evaluating the person then you are not doing your job as a parent. We should all be teaching our children to have a sympathetic understanding of the human nervous system.

 

[Trailblazer]

If you want to rely on your beliefs, that is your choice. truth is not what you seek.

If you want to rely on your beliefs, that is your choice. Truth is not what you seek.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

What did you say your proof was that messengers are bringing messages from God?

I never said that there is proof that Messengers are bringing messages from God. I said there is evidence that they are who they claim to be.
Baha'u'llah explained what that evidence for a Messenger of God is.

“Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with any one, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful.”​

Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 105-106​

Mankind's word of it?

No, Baha'u'llah said that we should never take anyone's word for it but rather we need to investigate the Messengers for ourselves.

Their messages prove they are not from God.

You do not like what are in their messages and you disagree with the messages, so you say. "Their messages prove they are not from God."
Everyone can see why you say this this except you, since your ego prevents you from seeing that everything you say is an ego projection.

Their messages are 'part' of the evidence that they are from God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Your assumptions do not live up to reality.
If God created everything, didn't God create evil or the possibility of evil?

God did not create evil. Mankind creates evil when he does evil deeds.
God created man with free will so there is the possibility that some people will choose evil, but man can also choose good.

God is good. God couldn't possible create evil, or God would be evil, right? How could evil be a good thing?

God did not create evil. Mankind creates evil when he does evil deeds.
Evil is not a good thing and since God is All-Good God does not create evil.

 

[Trailblazer]

Your quote:
However, God does not 'get people' to choose anything. That would interfere with their free will to choose.
God allows people to choose whatever they want to choose, and that is why there is both good and evil in this world.
If God does not like peoples' choices He allows them nonetheless.

My answer: To what end does God do this?

God does this so everyone can choose freely.

 

[Link]

Your quote:Amazing how you want to learn from everyone except God.

My Answer: I do not understand this statement. God is who I am learning from. That is how I know holy books do not come from God.

You have no clue of the level and depth of God. We are but mere ants. There is a endless supply of knowledge to learn. When one thinks the simplicity is the answer, one opens doors to a new level with complexities beyond imagination. Example: Mankind learning about medicine and people then open the door to Discover DNA. How long is it going to take now to understand? You can bet there will be a new door at the end to lead us all forward.

This hungry student will move forward ,learning from God, toward that Higher Level.

See what exists around us all. God hides nothing. God's true actions reflect who God really is. Your book could never come close to capture what you think it does.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

The point is you are willing to learn from people but not from God directly. You rather explain the design and rely on your analysis, then let him explain it. Quran is a book that doors of it open other doors if you give a proper chance.

And God's design sure speaks for itself, but most people don't see it. Books clarifying it would be useful.

 

[Link]

By the way @Bird123 I know what you mean by blindly following. People idolize people (clergy) and even the Prophets (a) and Imams (a) in that they use them for their ego and do not even know if they are true. The Quran showing that Prophets (a) would never command to be worshiped says rather they would command us to be Rabanis by what we teach of the book and by what we study. Rabani has the following implications.

(1) Total renouncement of the worldliness and materialistic ambitions.
(2) Worshiping God sincerely and devoted to him
(3) Having deep knowledge of divine sciences and spirituality
(4) Teaching others knowledge
(5) Being a teacher type leader

So I get it. Most Muslims don't care to reflect and know truth. But per Quran, faith is not about blind belief but about accepting God's signs. God's signs appear in outward world (design you keep talking about), but also, in the inward world there is the signs of God that he has chosen to represent himself by. The leader of time is particularly referred to as "the greatest sign".

We aren't suppose to blindly follow God and his Messenger (s). We are supposed to be seek proof of who is God and who his Messenger is. And who the Guide of our time is.

The fact majority have not treated God's book the way it's supposed to be, does not mean you should give up on finding his book. You can use the book of God as a catalyst to unite people on truth and work with it.

It's meant to be discussed and it can guide regarding it's divisions and clarify it's own darkness and ambiguity in the minds of people if they give the proper due.

Muslims can't recognize they idolize their clergy, because they don't want to attach that fact to themselves and it's too much of a headache (religion) to go deeply and figure things out. It would condemn them to the maximum, so they don't perceive it.

 

[Bird123]

I never said that there is proof that Messengers are bringing messages from God. I said there is evidence that they are who they claim to be.
Baha'u'llah explained what that evidence for a Messenger of God is.

“Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with any one, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful.”​

Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 105-106​

No, Baha'u'llah said that we should never take anyone's word for it but rather we need to investigate the Messengers for ourselves.

You do not like what are in their messages and you disagree with the messages, so you say. "Their messages prove they are not from God."
Everyone can see why you say this this except you, since your ego prevents you from seeing that everything you say is an ego projection.

Their messages are 'part' of the evidence that they are from God.

My Ego???? Can you ignore the petty things mankind holds so dear? God would never teach these things. Why not? They will never bring the best results. They would teach the children things that will not bring the best results. They reflect mankind and not God. They are not a Higher Level of thinking nor Intelligence.

So you have no proof only the Beliefs you want to be the truth. They come from God because you want them to come from God. You either ignore the petty things mankind holds so dear that they are teaching or you simply do not understand and value the petty things mankind holds so dear in favor of your Beliefs. What ever happened to seeking Truth??

You discount me because you do not like what I say. They ask you to Believe. I ask you to Discover for yourself and I do not want anyone to merely Believe. Is it just easier accepting and believing? Clearly, truth is not what you seek.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

My Ego???? Can you ignore the petty things mankind holds so dear? God would never teach these things.

You cannot entertain the possibility that God would teach those things. That is your ego.

Why not? They will never bring the best results. They would teach the children things that will not bring the best results.

And what results does your system of Discovery bring?

So you have no proof only the Beliefs you want to be the truth. They come from God because you want them to come from God.

You have no proof, only the Beliefs you want to be the truth. You believe they come from God because you want them to come from God.

You either ignore the petty things mankind holds so dear that they are teaching or you simply do not understand and value the petty things mankind holds so dear in favor of your Beliefs. What ever happened to seeking Truth??

Messengers of God do not teach anything that is petty. You only believe that what they teach is petty, because you consider it petty.

You discount me because you do not like what I say.

You discount me because you do not like what I say.

They ask you to Believe.

Nobody asks me to believe. I choose to believe whatever I believe.

I ask you to Discover for yourself and I do not want anyone to merely Believe.

Discover what? WHY would what I Discover be the Truth from God, just because I believe it is?
Can you figure out how each person Discovering for themselves won't work to get the Truth from God?

Is it just easier accepting and believing?

That is exactly what you do. You accept and believe your self-proclaimed beliefs about who God is and what God does and then you call it Discovery.

Clearly, truth is not what you seek. You seek to confirm what you already believe is the truth.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

God did not create evil. Mankind creates evil when he does evil deeds.
God created man with free will so there is the possibility that some people will choose evil, but man can also choose good.

God did not create evil. Mankind creates evil when he does evil deeds.
Evil is not a good thing and since God is All-Good God does not create evil.

Doesn't your god come up lacking? If God thought like you, could not God have created a world where evil was impossible? Further. are you saying God did not create everything? If God created mankind, did not God know that mankind would choose evil? Your box of math is leaking all over the place. Math does not do this. Truth is more than your feelings or what you want to be true.

Do you value the petty things mankind holds so dear like we against they or we are good and they are bad?

There is much you do need to Question.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Quetzal]

OK. God creates the universe and God creates you. What does God want from you?

To be aware of my car's extended warranty.

 

[Trailblazer]

Doesn't your god come up lacking? If God thought like you, could not God have created a world where evil was impossible?

God could not have created a world where evil was impossible unless God created man with no free will to choose.
In that case humans would be programmed robots, not sentient beings with free will.

Further. are you saying God did not create everything? If God created mankind, did not God know that mankind would choose evil?

God did not create mankind, mankind evolved. During the process of evolution God gave man a rational soul and the free will to choose, so of course God knew some men would choose evil. So what? If men choose evil that they are responsible for choosing evil and they will suffer the consequences.

Your box of math is leaking all over the place. Math does not do this.

Box of math? Math dos not do anything except deal with numbers. 1 + 1 = 2, etc.

Truth is more than your feelings or what you want to be true.

Truth is more than your feelings or what you want to be true.

Do you value the petty things mankind holds so dear like we against they or we are good and they are bad?

Grow up and face reality. We do not live in a world where everyone is the same. Everyone knows that but you.

There is no we against they, but people are all different. Human behavior ranges along a spectrum from the saintly good to the greatest evil anyone can imagine.

There is much you do need to learn about human behavior.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[muhammad_isa]

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

It can't be that clear .. both you and @Bird123 find it clear..
..but clearly, you don't agree

 

[Trailblazer]

It can't be that clear .. both you and @Bird123 find it clear..
..but clearly, you don't agree

What I see is very clear to me and what @Bird123 sees is very clear to him.
Clearly, we don't see things the same way.

 

[Bird123]

God does this so everyone can choose freely.

To what end does God do this so everyone can choose freely?

 

[Bird123]

The point is you are willing to learn from people but not from God directly. You rather explain the design and rely on your analysis, then let him explain it. Quran is a book that doors of it open other doors if you give a proper chance.

And God's design sure speaks for itself, but most people don't see it. Books clarifying it would be useful.

If you really knew God, you would see that holy books do not come from God. Holy books reflect mankind. Mankind values those petty things mankind holds so dear. This is not God.

One can choose to accept and follow holy books, however it isn't God they are following.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

By the way @Bird123 I know what you mean by blindly following. People idolize people (clergy) and even the Prophets (a) and Imams (a) in that they use them for their ego and do not even know if they are true. The Quran showing that Prophets (a) would never command to be worshiped says rather they would command us to be Rabanis by what we teach of the book and by what we study. Rabani has the following implications.

(1) Total renouncement of the worldliness and materialistic ambitions.
(2) Worshiping God sincerely and devoted to him
(3) Having deep knowledge of divine sciences and spirituality
(4) Teaching others knowledge
(5) Being a teacher type leader

So I get it. Most Muslims don't care to reflect and know truth. But per Quran, faith is not about blind belief but about accepting God's signs. God's signs appear in outward world (design you keep talking about), but also, in the inward world there is the signs of God that he has chosen to represent himself by. The leader of time is particularly referred to as "the greatest sign".

We aren't suppose to blindly follow God and his Messenger (s). We are supposed to be seek proof of who is God and who his Messenger is. And who the Guide of our time is.

The fact majority have not treated God's book the way it's supposed to be, does not mean you should give up on finding his book. You can use the book of God as a catalyst to unite people on truth and work with it.

It's meant to be discussed and it can guide regarding it's divisions and clarify it's own darkness and ambiguity in the minds of people if they give the proper due.

Muslims can't recognize they idolize their clergy, because they don't want to attach that fact to themselves and it's too much of a headache (religion) to go deeply and figure things out. It would condemn them to the maximum, so they don't perceive it.

Yes, there are many issues around religion. Further, after accepting people stop questioning. How can people ignore the petty things being taught by those holy books? People want to value those petty things because they do not really understand what those petty things really are. Lessons will return to teach regardless of any beliefs one might choose to have in order to validate it.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

To what end does God do this so everyone can choose freely?

God wants everyone to choose freely so that they will learn from what they choose and strengthen their character.
That is the primary purpose of going through this life.

 

[Gassim]

What an overly simplistic view of religion.
Maybe Christianity uses fear but Christianity is not the only religion in the world.

I do not know which religion uses fear to get followers? Is there any proof? According to my best knowledge, monotheistic religions give freedom to believe. There are many verses in Quran states that belief is entirely one’s own freedom

 

[Link]

If you really knew God, you would see that holy books do not come from God. Holy books reflect mankind. Mankind values those petty things mankind holds so dear. This is not God.

One can choose to accept and follow holy books, however it isn't God they are following.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

It's petty to you, but majority of mankind as you say values them. Has it occurred to you people may not be wrong, but you might be?