What does it mean to say God created time?

[robo]

Time cannot be eternal. Time must be finite.

Why?

The definition of time involves a beginning and an ending. This is how time is measured - a start and a finish.

Says who? What you have defined - a start and a finish - measures a time interval - and not time itself.

GOD is said to have created time because GOD has no beginning and He has no end.

For God to "create time" he ought to be antecedent to/precede the "first" moment of time temporally. Otherwise, God and time came to exist at the same time. If there is no time, cause and effect are meaningless. God could not have caused time. Time could have caused God. How would you tell the two apart?

It may perhaps be useful if you lay down the conditions for when you believe event A causes event B.

 

[DandyAndy]

Why?

That's the definition. At least that's my definition. What is yours?

Says who? What you have defined - a start and a finish - measures a time interval - and not time itself.

A word is a group of letters that string together to represent something in written form - isn't time just a start and a finish strung together to represent a moment, occurrence or period?

I view time itself as what exists between a beginning and an end - divide it up as many times as you like, slice it up into millenniums, hours or seconds and it's still various measurements of time itself.

What do you define time itself as?

For God to "create time" he ought to be antecedent to/precede the "first" moment of time temporally. Otherwise, God and time came to exist at the same time. If there is no time, cause and effect are meaningless. God could not have caused time. Time could have caused God. How would you tell the two apart?

Yeah GOD was before time. GOD could have caused time because, as you said, something had to cause the other thing. GOD has no cause, GOD simply is. GOD was before time. Otherwise time could not have come to exist. Since time is a period between a start and a finish, GOD had to be before the start and after finish, which is what He is.

It may perhaps be useful if you lay down the conditions for when you believe event A causes event B.

I'm sorry I don't understand what you are asking.

GOD is not contained within time because He has no start and no finish. Time itself has a start and a finish. GOD started time. GOD will end time. GOD existed before time was started. GOD will exist after time is finished.

 

[TheKnight]

Actually, each observer involved in the 'clock paradox' (akin to the twin paradox) have their own clock. When they again meet, the clocks have indeed measured different amounts of time. It is a real, physical, measurable phenomenon.


"The clock-paradox phenomenon has been observed directly in an experiment performed in 1971 by J. C. Hafele and R. E. Keating, who observed differences in elapsed times of atomically stabilized clocks flown in airplanes as compared with ones on the ground." (Clock paradox: Definition from Answers.com)

I read your link and looked into it more. And from what I understand, in the twin paradox example, the returning twin appears less aged than the twin that stayed.

To me that shows that traveling at the speed of light would, theoretically, affect how things change. And I never said that things do not change, in fact I said the opposite things are always in a state of change Time itself is our method of perceiving that change, making it somewhat arbitrary. It is a concept that we use to quantify or keep track of change that occurs.

Well, the word has to refer to something. Exactly what is the referent denoted by the term "time"? You say it is "a result of how we perceive things." So what is the nature of that result? What are its characteristics?

Time refers to the concept of what results from tracking repetitive change.

You have looked at quantum mechanics, haven't you? It's a major problem in theoretical research that the new theories must match up to our perceptions, and making that happen is often quite hard. (And this is before making it match up to normality, which is a lot harder again.)

I actually read quantam physics research quite frequently. However I can, by no means, say that I am an expert (or even that I am well educated on it).

Actually, the key point was that Einstein proved that it does. A major example of this is the GPS satellite network: it loses 105 picoseconds per second, so any useful result has to correct for Relativity. A high-speed clock will measure shorter durations than a stationary one; this was one of the experiments done to prove Relativity shortly after the technology became available.

Hmm, I don't see how this provides evidence either for or against the existence of time as an external universal force or anything other than something we simply perceive. From what I understand (and admittedly my understanding may be entirely incorrect) it only demonstrates that your frame of reference directly affects how you change, even if you're not perceiving the change or ,the difference in the change, immediately. In fact, I see the fact that the two clocks will measure different durations as proof that time is simply a matter of perception...it is a reference to our perception of the phenomena of change.

 

[robo]

Yeah GOD was before time.GOD was before time. GOD existed before time was started. GOD will exist after time is finished.

My point is that all of the statements above are self-contradictory. Each of the words there has a meaning on its own, but strung together, they are completely devoid of any meaning whatsoever.

As an aside, if God existed before time was started [I have no idea what this even means...but I will go along with you for the moment] - What was God doing all that while before starting time?

 

[Skwim]

Time refers to the concept of what results from tracking repetitive change.

And what kind of result does one get from tracking repetitive change? Because you say time doesn't exist, obviously the result can't be time, but for the life of me I can't figure out what else it could be.

 

[TheKnight]

And what kind of result does one get from tracking repetitive change? Because you say time doesn't exist, obviously the result can't be time, but for the life of me I can't figure out what else it could be.

In the case of object X changing from state A to state B, the result is a changed X. Time is how we track the change from one state to another.

 

[Skwim]

In the case of object X changing from state A to state B, the result is a changed X. Time is how we track the change from one state to another.

Now you're saying we use something that doesn't exist. But giving you the benefit of the doubt and saying we do, then what are the characteristics of this non-existent time thing we use to track the change from one state to another?

 

[Heathen Hammer]

My point is that all of the statements above are self-contradictory. Each of the words there has a meaning on its own, but strung together, they are completely devoid of any meaning whatsoever.

As an aside, if God existed before time was started [I have no idea what this even means...but I will go along with you for the moment] - What was God doing all that while before starting time?

He could not have done anything, as he could not have performed any actions or had any thought without a Time dimension.


Which of course highlights your first point rather well

 

[TheKnight]

Now you're saying we use something that doesn't exist. But giving you the benefit of the doubt and saying we do, then what are the characteristics of this non-existent time thing we use to track the change from one state to another?

As I said, it doesn't exist as some kind of external force, but is entirely dependent on our perception. It only exists in our perception of it, not external to that. What its characteristics are depends on who you ask.

 

[Skwim]

As I said, it doesn't exist as some kind of external force, but is entirely dependent on our perception. It only exists in our perception of it, not external to that. What its characteristics are depends on who you ask.

Okay, I'll ask you. What do you see as its characteristics?

 

[TheKnight]

Okay, I'll ask you. What do you see as its characteristics?

I try not to characterize things that don't exist.

 

[Skwim]

I try not to characterize things that don't exist.

And in this case I understand why not.

 

[TheKnight]

And in this case I understand why not.

:beach:

 

[PolyHedral]

As I said, it doesn't exist as some kind of external force, but is entirely dependent on our perception. It only exists in our perception of it, not external to that. What its characteristics are depends on who you ask.

Perception of what?

 

[Pegg]

Hello folks:

If I understand Abrahamic religions correctly, it is believed that "YHWH/Allah created time".

My thoughts are that "God created time" is a meaningless collection of words. Time is eternal and it is uncreated.

For God to be the cause of an effect, God has to temporally precede the effect.

Any thoughts?

time is not eternal. Time began with the birth of the universe, thus time came into existence when God created the Universe.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

Hello folks:

If I understand Abrahamic religions correctly, it is believed that "YHWH/Allah created time".

My thoughts are that "God created time" is a meaningless collection of words. Time is eternal and it is uncreated.

For God to be the cause of an effect, God has to temporally precede the effect.

Any thoughts?

I look on time before the big bang as a mirror reflection of this time so if a hypothetical time traveller travelled back in time before the big bang he would be unbeknown to him travelling back towards the future again and it makes no difference what trajectory he uses, he will just be u turned back the future again because at the big bang that was when time was created. There was no before as we know it and at best it was time going back into the future again. Just as there is not there is no point on the surface of the earth further north than the North Pole for a North Polar expeditioner. He could head to the North Pole in the most perfectly straight line pass over the North Pole and continue but unbeknown to him he would be travelling south again. Same as time with the universe for the hypothetical time traveller.

 

[Skwim]

If I understand Abrahamic religions correctly, it is believed that "YHWH/Allah created time".

My thoughts are that "God created time" is a meaningless collection of words. Time is eternal and it is uncreated.

For God to be the cause of an effect, God has to temporally precede the effect.
Any thoughts?

time is not eternal. Time began with the birth of the universe, thus time came into existence when God created the Universe.

"For God to be the cause of an effect, God has to temporally precede the effect."

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

time is not eternal. Time began with the birth of the universe, thus time came into existence when God created the Universe.

What is wrong with the universe just simply creating itself, time and all included in the package?

 

[DandyAndy]

My point is that all of the statements above are self-contradictory. Each of the words there has a meaning on its own, but strung together, they are completely devoid of any meaning whatsoever.

As an aside, if God existed before time was started [I have no idea what this even means...but I will go along with you for the moment] - What was God doing all that while before starting time?

GOD is defined as an eternal being with no end and beginning. That's part of who He is.

If time itself is a dimension, GOD existed/exists outside of it. I believe that time is a part of our physical/temporal existence. Because it is temporal, it must have a beginning and an end, thus GOD created it.

I don't know what GOD was doing before He made time - I don't see how or why it matters. I think I know what you are getting at, but you have to remember that GOD is outside of time.

 

[idav]

Hello folks:

If I understand Abrahamic religions correctly, it is believed that "YHWH/Allah created time".

My thoughts are that "God created time" is a meaningless collection of words. Time is eternal and it is uncreated.

For God to be the cause of an effect, God has to temporally precede the effect.

Any thoughts?

It is an attempt to put God outside of our time. Thing is you don't have to be outside the universe to be in a different time warp.