What does it mean to say God created time?

[robo]

GOD is defined as an eternal being with no end and beginning. That's part of who He is.

OK. But now, please define what it means for something to be "eternal". In my understanding, something is eternal, if there was no point in time when it was non-existent. If creation of time happened in 4004 BC, I am assuming God existed in 10000 BC, Trillion BC, etc. This is how I understand eternality. Is this how you understand eternality?

If time itself is a dimension, GOD existed/exists outside of it.

What does it mean for something to exist "outside" of time? Sorry, but all of these statements seem to sound profound, but no one is able to explain what they actually mean in an easy to understand fashion. I sometimes get the feeling that I am dumb in not being able to understand these seemingly trivial concepts.

Because it is temporal, it must have a beginning and an end, thus GOD created it.

Again, creation, cause and effect, etc. proceed only via the fabric of time. If there is NO time, nothing happens. In fact, time (and space) are causal factors in any change, including the creation of time, leading to a contradiction.

 

[PolyHedral]

In my understanding, something is eternal, if there was no point in time when it was non-existent.

By that definition, the universe is eternal.

 

[robo]

In my understanding, something is eternal, if there was no point in time when it was non-existent.

By that definition, the universe is eternal.

Indeed. This is also the only definition that seems to makes sense.

 

[DandyAndy]

OK. But now, please define what it means for something to be "eternal". In my understanding, something is eternal, if there was no point in time when it was non-existent. If creation of time happened in 4004 BC, I am assuming God existed in 10000 BC, Trillion BC, etc. This is how I understand eternality. Is this how you understand eternality?

Well there is the dictionary definition which reads: without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing

Since I believe that GOD created all things, GOD would be the only thing that would fit the entire definition of the word eternal as defined above.

When we talk about created beings like Satan or angels or our soul, I take that to mean they will last forever - as in ongoing indefinitely from a starting point. As created beings we could not be without beginning or end, since, as created beings, we have a beginning.

What does it mean for something to exist "outside" of time? Sorry, but all of these statements seem to sound profound, but no one is able to explain what they actually mean in an easy to understand fashion. I sometimes get the feeling that I am dumb in not being able to understand these seemingly trivial concepts.

If time is a box that contains things (space, planets, me, you, etc.), anything that exists outside of that box (GOD) exists outside of time. I don't know you very well, so I can't say for sure, but you probably aren't dumb. There are a lot of things I don't understand.

Again, creation, cause and effect, etc. proceed only via the fabric of time. If there is NO time, nothing happens. In fact, time (and space) are causal factors in any change, including the creation of time, leading to a contradiction.

These bolded statements above are very accurate - which is why time came before heaven and Earth (Genesis 1:1 In the beginning, GOD created the heavens and Earth...)

I don't know about contradictions - what you are saying requires that time itself would fit the full definition of eternal (which means it wouldn't be time) and all space within time would fit the full definition of eternal (which means that everything would have no beginning and no end) which defies observation. I don't think there are many people that believe the universe is fully eternal - it had a beginning and will have an end.

 

[robo]

Again, creation, cause and effect, etc. proceed only via the fabric of time. If there is NO time, nothing happens.

These bolded statements above are very accurate - which is why time came before heaven and Earth (Genesis 1:1 In the beginning, GOD created the heavens and Earth...)

If you DID agree with my bolded statements, it follows that the fabric of time is necessary for the creation of time itself.

 

[DandyAndy]

If you DID agree with my bolded statements, it follows that the fabric of time is necessary for the creation of time itself.

There has to be some uncaused cause at some point otherwise it just becomes an infinite regression. What is being created cannot exist before it is created. If the creation of something necessitates that it exist BEFORE its creation, then it isn't being created, since it already exists. But it can't exist unless it is created? That seems circular to me.

The rules inside the box (time) are different than the rules outside of the box (time). If GOD was in the box (time) and tried to create time within the box (time), your statement would be correct. But GOD was outside the box (time) when He created time (the box), therefore the rules were different than the rules we know here within time (the box).

:faint:

 

[PolyHedral]

There has to be some uncaused cause at some point otherwise it just becomes an infinite regression.

There's actually a pipe dream among the physicists that the universe turns out to be a random quantum fluctuation. (It depends on various things about the universe being true that we don't have data to support yet) That's your uncaused cause right there.

The rules inside the box (time) are different than the rules outside of the box (time). If GOD was in the box (time) and tried to create time within the box (time), your statement would be correct. But GOD was outside the box (time) when He created time (the box), therefore the rules were different than the rules we know here within time (the box).

This particularly box expands itself, unfortunately.

 

[DandyAndy]

There's actually a pipe dream among the physicists that the universe turns out to be a random quantum fluctuation. (It depends on various things about the universe being true that we don't have data to support yet) That's your uncaused cause right there.

Is that the whole rubber band stretching out then snapping back and stretching out and snapping back thing?

But the uncaused cause you are referring to is nothing but a pipe dream at best. There are a lot of pipe dreams and whatnot out there.

This particularly box expands itself, unfortunately.

Why is that unfortunate?

 

[idav]

There's actually a pipe dream among the physicists that the universe turns out to be a random quantum fluctuation. (It depends on various things about the universe being true that we don't have data to support yet) That's your uncaused cause right there.


This particularly box expands itself, unfortunately.

I would say an infinite amount of random quantum fluctuations. I can't imagine all this could be just from one quantum event even if we are mostly empty space. Coming from nothing it would be hard to see something.

 

[PolyHedral]

Is that the whole rubber band stretching out then snapping back and stretching out and snapping back thing?

But the uncaused cause you are referring to is nothing but a pipe dream at best.

Oh no, we know for absolutely sure that quantum fluctuations are random and uncaused. We just don't know if they can produce the entire universe, since we don't know what the total energy content of the universe is.

 

[ngupta]

Topics like this is why I find it stimulating and enjoyable to post on RF. All good posts from theists and atheists alike.

Untill...

first you need to prove a deity exist before you can attribute something to it.

None of the atheists in this discussion went straight for that. NONE. Why did you have to spoil the flow of discussion? WHY?!

Taking ***** on birthday cakes is NOT COOL!

 

[Gaura Priya]

Krishna in the Gita says,

"Among subduers I am time." kâlah kalayatâm aham
-- Gita 10:30

"Time I am, the great destroyer of the worlds." kâlo 'smi loka-kshaya-krt-pravrddho
-- Gita 11:32

 

[Heathen Hammer]

'Dripping water hollows out the stone'

 

[839311]

Hello folks:

If I understand Abrahamic religions correctly, it is believed that "YHWH/Allah created time".

My thoughts are that "God created time" is a meaningless collection of words. Time is eternal and it is uncreated.

For God to be the cause of an effect, God has to temporally precede the effect.

Any thoughts?

A totally absurd concept. The existence of any lifeform, whether human or dinosaur or god, is dependant on matter and energy that moves, reacts, and evolves. Time is a concept created by humans as a measurement of the rates of change of matter and energy, it isnt even real. So saying God created time is, as you say, a meaningless collection of words no doubt put together by someone with an unrealistic understanding of reality.

 

[robo]

What is being created cannot exist before it is created. If the creation of something necessitates that it exist BEFORE its creation, then it isn't being created, since it already exists. But it can't exist unless it is created? That seems circular to me.

It is circular and hence the way out is to stop saying that "God created time". If creation requires time, time cannot be created. That is the way out of the dilemma. Time is uncreated and hence eternal.

But GOD was outside the box (time) when He created time (the box), therefore the rules were different than the rules we know here within time (the box).

If time doesnt exist, an entity being outside of time is simply frozen solid. There can be no creation or cause and effect in that case. Think of an entity being outside of time as analogous to a photograph. Think of an entity being within time as analogous to a video. Now, where do you see action/creation/cause/effect/change? In a photograph or a video?

 

[chinu]

What does it mean to say God created time?

"God" (positive-power) didn't created "Time" (nagative-power).
Than the question is -- Who created time ?
Firstly we (souls) were one with "God", and OUR-WILL or OUR-DESIRE to create the creation for ourself firstly created "Time" (nagative-power).

So the first thing which was created automatically INBETWEEN the god and creation, or illusion was "Time".

 

[filthy tugboat]

Hello folks:

If I understand Abrahamic religions correctly, it is believed that "YHWH/Allah created time".

Some think that yes, it depends on the individual.

My thoughts are that "God created time" is a meaningless collection of words. Time is eternal and it is uncreated.

Time is a measurement of change. It is non-existent beyond that.

For God to be the cause of an effect, God has to temporally precede the effect.

Any thoughts?

I agree, For God to create anything at all he must already exist in a temporal capacity. For God to do or think anything at all, he must exist in a temporal capacity.

 

[Pegg]

"For God to be the cause of an effect, God has to temporally precede the effect."

and that he does.

he does not exist inside this universe....he exists outside of it.

 

[idav]

and that he does.

he does not exist inside this universe....he exists outside of it.

Deism? God doesn't exist in our reality?

 

[Pegg]

What is wrong with the universe just simply creating itself, time and all included in the package?

something we should all learn from Richard Dawkins is that measuring the statistical improbability of a suggestion is the right way to go about assessing its believability. He said that in his book 'the blind watchmaker'


Now what are the chances of an effect not having a cause? According to the law of 'cause and effect' it is impossible.

And what makes it even more difficult is the scientific evidence that the universe did not exist at one time. So no universe, then BANG, light goes forth and that light forms into all the various forms of matter we see in the periodic table....all organized.

Now ask yourself what are the chances of a tornado putting a city or town (or even one little house) together nice and neatly and in an organized fashion? You would have to put a lot of faith in in some very large numbers to believe that is possible.