What does it mean to say God created time?

[camanintx]

I personally don't believe it is god, but the argument is completely valid, even if not sound.

My problem with this argument lies with premise 2.

Argument for Premise 2
1.'' If every being is contingent, there is no explanation for the series of contingencies.
2.'' There must be an explanation for every being and every fact (PSR)
Therefore: not all beings are contingent.

The principle of sufficient reason says there must be an explanation for every being and every fact. If the explanation for every being is a fact, then it is possible for all beings to be contingent. This leaves you with a non-contingent fact as the explanation for every being. If "the universe exists" is accepted as a non-contingent fact then there is no need for God.

 

[Daviso452]

something we should all learn from Richard Dawkins is that measuring the statistical improbability of a suggestion is the right way to go about assessing its believability. He said that in his book 'the blind watchmaker'


Now what are the chances of an effect not having a cause? According to the law of 'cause and effect' it is impossible.

And what makes it even more difficult is the scientific evidence that the universe did not exist at one time. So no universe, then BANG, light goes forth and that light forms into all the various forms of matter we see in the periodic table....all organized.

Now ask yourself what are the chances of a tornado putting a city or town (or even one little house) together nice and neatly and in an organized fashion? You would have to put a lot of faith in in some very large numbers to believe that is possible.

Sure it can, since THE LAWS OF PHYSICS DID NOT EXIST, or at least broke down due to the singularity which became our universe. If the laws are broken down, then there is nothing stopping it.

Also, WHY CAN'T IT BE ******* ETERNAL? Pegg that is a question you, and everyone else on this site has yet to answer. Why can't the universe be infinite in time, with no beginning or end? As in you can go as far back in time as you wish, and you will constantly find another cause, and another and another... but you will never find the first. Is that hard to understand? Well it doesn't matter. Just because you cannot understand it does not mean it's wrong.

On the flip side, just because it isn't wrong does not mean it's right. As is the same with God. So which is more believable? The one that exists within our proven universe or the one that exists in a place that isn't even proven to exist?

 

[Corkscrew]

We don’t know the circumstances that existed prior to the creation of our reality. In fact, according to our understanding, time itself was created at the same time as space (space-time). Can anyone conceive of how creation could have occurred without time? I believe we are talking about a reality that we have no concept of. Yet people talk about a creator named God, and claim to know him so well that they know his likes and dislikes, I find this ludicrous. The Bible even goes so far as to say that God asked one man to kill his own son to prove his loyalty to God. I refuse to believe that the same entity that created the universe also was the architect behind the events described in the Bible. To me the difference is obvious; it’s like comparing a mountain and a highway and determining which one is manmade.

 

[Muffled]

Hello folks:

If I understand Abrahamic religions correctly, it is believed that "YHWH/Allah created time".

My thoughts are that "God created time" is a meaningless collection of words. Time is eternal and it is uncreated.

For God to be the cause of an effect, God has to temporally precede the effect.

Any thoughts?

Genesis mainly refers to time in relation to our planet. However the principle is universal. Time is an element of the motion of objects. For instance

My car goes 50 miles per hour. The measure of time is how long it takes to go 50 miles. All of our time concepts are based on the motion of objects. A day is a measure of how long it takes the earth to revolve on its axis. (in ancient times this wasn't a very good measure because a day was seen as from sunrise to sunrise but the sun rises at different times during the year.) The year is based on how many days the earth takes to travel around the sun. A light year is based on how long it takes light to travel from the sun to earth. (I think but I haven't checked a source on it)

Since God created all things and put them into motion, He is the creator of time.

 

[Muffled]

I don't think that G-d created time. Humans created time as a measurement of understanding. much like the inch

And we created the sun also to measure how warm we are, lol. No I suppose you will say we invented temperature as though our measure of it has something to do with the existence of heat.

 

[Corkscrew]

Genesis mainly refers to time in relation to our planet. However the principle is universal. Time is an element of the motion of objects. For instance

My car goes 50 miles per hour. The measure of time is how long it takes to go 50 miles. All of our time concepts are based on the motion of objects. A day is a measure of how long it takes the earth to revolve on its axis. (in ancient times this wasn't a very good measure because a day was seen as from sunrise to sunrise but the sun rises at different times during the year.) The year is based on how many days the earth takes to travel around the sun. A light year is based on how long it takes light to travel from the sun to earth. (I think but I haven't checked a source on it)

Since God created all things and put them into motion, He is the creator of time.

A light year is the distance it takes light to travel in one year. Light travel about 186,000 mile per second, so you would times that number by the number of seconds in a year to come up with the distance. BTW, it only takes light about 8 minutes to travel from the sun to the Earth.

 

[robo]

The measure of time is how long it takes to go 50 miles....A day is a measure of how long it takes the earth to revolve on its axis....The year is based on how many days the earth takes to travel around the sun. A light year is based on how long it takes light to travel from the sun to earth.

This defintion of time is circular. If you intend to describe/define time, then in the definition you cannot use words like "how long", "how many days", etc. for the latter themselves are measures of time.

So, unless this is clarified, we are nowhere close to concluding something like:

Since God created all things and put them into motion, He is the creator of time.

 

[Pegg]

Deism? God doesn't exist in our reality?

our reality is a physical one, God is metaphysical therefore he does not exist within our reality, no.

There is a reason why we cannot see spirits.

 

[Pegg]

Sure it can, since THE LAWS OF PHYSICS DID NOT EXIST, or at least broke down due to the singularity which became our universe. If the laws are broken down, then there is nothing stopping it.

Also, WHY CAN'T IT BE ******* ETERNAL? Pegg that is a question you, and everyone else on this site has yet to answer. Why can't the universe be infinite in time, with no beginning or end? As in you can go as far back in time as you wish, and you will constantly find another cause, and another and another... but you will never find the first. Is that hard to understand? Well it doesn't matter. Just because you cannot understand it does not mean it's wrong.

up until about 60 years ago scientists did believe the universe was eternal and that is what they believed and taught. But they found evidence to the contrary and now no scientist in his right mind discounts the evidence of the big bang. They know the universe began...read Steven Hawkings 'A short history of time'.

So you tell me, how does something come from nothing without a cause?

On the flip side, just because it isn't wrong does not mean it's right. As is the same with God. So which is more believable? The one that exists within our proven universe or the one that exists in a place that isn't even proven to exist?

sometimes because the elephant standing in the room is not what we were looking for, we miss it completely.

 

[filthy tugboat]

up until about 60 years ago scientists did believe the universe was eternal and that is what they believed and taught. But they found evidence to the contrary and now no scientist in his right mind discounts the evidence of the big bang. They know the universe began...read Steven Hawkings 'A short history of time'.

So you tell me, how does something come from nothing without a cause?

What exactly are you implying, "came from nothing"? The Big Bang came from a singularity. When has something come from nothing with a cause?

sometimes because the elephant standing in the room is not what we were looking for, we miss it completely.

Or, there is no elephant standing in the room. This ridiculous rhetoric does not work in your favor because it proposes a scenario where an individual is in a room and he does not see an elephant? What should we conclude? Obviously that there is no elephant in the room. You seemingly chose to make this analogous with God so therefore you are saying that the more reasonable/logical conclusion is that believing in God is wrong. Your words, not mine.

 

[Pegg]

What exactly are you implying, "came from nothing"? The Big Bang came from a singularity. When has something come from nothing with a cause?

when has nothing caused something?

and the singularity has not been proven to be a fact...it is only a speculative guess as to what might have come before the big bang. they believe there must have been something because they know nothing comes from nothing. So they call it a 'singularity' which means zilch because they dont really know what a singularity is.

Or, there is no elephant standing in the room. This ridiculous rhetoric does not work in your favor because it proposes a scenario where an individual is in a room and he does not see an elephant? What should we conclude? Obviously that there is no elephant in the room. You seemingly chose to make this analogous with God so therefore you are saying that the more reasonable/logical conclusion is that believing in God is wrong. Your words, not mine.

if you're looking for a singularity, then the elephant may not seem all that appealing.

 

[filthy tugboat]

when has nothing caused something?

I don't know? I don't even know what 'nothing' is, it's a concept, an unimaginable concept.

and the singularity has not been proven to be a fact...it is only a speculative guess as to what might have come before the big bang.

Indeed.

they believe there must have been something because they know nothing comes from nothing. So they call it a 'singularity' which means zilch because they dont really know what a singularity is.

Yep. But still, now we are on the same page, the Big Bang theory does not propose that the universe came from nothing. I'm glad we agree.

if you're looking for a singularity, then the elephant may not seem all that appealing.

Which elephant? Why would I be looking for a singularity?

 

[Heathen Hammer]

If there was a singularity in the room, we'd never know. We'd all be dead. Along with the rest of the planet the house was on.

 

[Pegg]

Yep. But still, now we are on the same page, the Big Bang theory does not propose that the universe came from nothing. I'm glad we agree.

cough *find a singularity* cough

Why would I be looking for a singularity?

apparently because one exists

 

[Heathen Hammer]

the singularity is not 'nothing' Pegg, and was never represented to be; that's an error in your understanding.

the singularity is more properly 'everything'.

 

[filthy tugboat]

cough *find a singularity* cough

Why? Are there any to be found?

apparently because one exists

Exists and existed are two very different words, you might want to check that. The Big Bang theory proposes that the universe came from a singularity. You don't have to accept it as true but you can acknowledge what it actually states. You earlier claimed that the big bang theory stated that the universe came from nothing, which was false. Would you be happy to retract that claim or do you still think that the Big Bang theory proposes that the universe came from nothing?

 

[Corkscrew]

So you tell me, how does something come from nothing without a cause?

To answer your question would take an understanding of the laws that existed prior to the big bang. Causality is a common law of our reality, so common that we assume it existed prior to the big bang. Fact is, we don’t know anything about the reality that existed prior to the big bang, we don’t even know if there was a “prior to” the big bang, at least not in any sense that is familiar to us or even able to comprehend.

 

[Skwim]

Oh no, we know for absolutely sure that quantum fluctuations are random and uncaused.

I'm somewhat new to the subject and would appreciate any evidence (sources) that substantiate this claim.

Thanks.

Skwim

 

[DandyAndy]

It is circular and hence the way out is to stop saying that "God created time". If creation requires time, time cannot be created. That is the way out of the dilemma. Time is uncreated and hence eternal.

Physical creation requires time because the physical world exists within time - it seems entirely possible to me that something which is not physical (GOD) could exist and act outside of time because that which is not physical is not restricted by the laws of the physical realm.

I can't accept that time is eternal because my definition of time requires a beginning and an end - that which is eternal has no end.

If time doesnt exist, an entity being outside of time is simply frozen solid. There can be no creation or cause and effect in that case. Think of an entity being outside of time as analogous to a photograph. Think of an entity being within time as analogous to a video. Now, where do you see action/creation/cause/effect/change? In a photograph or a video?

Again, this applies only to the physical, material world. I just think that at some point there has to be an uncaused cause for time and the existence we experience within time. For me the most probable explanation is GOD.

 

[Pegg]

Why? Are there any to be found?



Exists and existed are two very different words, you might want to check that. The Big Bang theory proposes that the universe came from a singularity. You don't have to accept it as true but you can acknowledge what it actually states. You earlier claimed that the big bang theory stated that the universe came from nothing, which was false. Would you be happy to retract that claim or do you still think that the Big Bang theory proposes that the universe came from nothing?

it stands to reason that if the universe had a beginning, then there was a time it did not exist

They had to come up with an explanation for how it could have come into existence, so they 'propose' an unexplainable singularity. Now they can say that the universe didnt come from nothing....it came from an unprovable assumption that it came from a 'singularity'

Why is it impossible that God himself was the cause of the big bang? At least Gods existence has been proven...no singularity has been proven.