How do you know its an honesty problem though?
I mean isn't it possible that this is how they perceive their religion?
And all that is based on your perception of Islam. I mean you think this is how Islam is.
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What does the RF Muslim community make of this video?
- Thread starter Phasmid
- Start date
How do you know its an honesty problem though?
I mean isn't it possible that this is how they perceive their religion?
And all that is based on your perception of Islam. I mean you think this is how Islam is.
You mean that you think the biggest problem that face Muslims today is that we're not being honest?
I'm not sure i understand you correctly
However if so, what is it that we're not being completely honest about?
if i read Paul's post correctly, i do agree that some extremists hide exactly how they feel in order to infiltrate. if extremists disclose how they really feel, it will be hard for them to implement their mission (in some cases, terrorism). it's just part of a big problem we have with THESE Muslims...if they perceive Islam to be what others call "extreme",it is a huge problem. so is if they conceal their extreme views as well with bad intentions.
there is the other extreme, who insist that Islam is all about peace, and has no "aggressive" qualities...well, that's not exactly true either. yes, the principle behind "submission" is peaceful, but clearly there is the command to spread and defend the "word of Islam"...that can't always be done peacefully. personally, i think the middle-of-the-road in most cases is the best bet.
ugh, it's hard to explain on a computer.
there is the other extreme, who insist that Islam is all about peace, and has no "aggressive" qualities...well, that's not exactly true either. yes, the principle behind "submission" is peaceful, but clearly there is the command to spread and defend the "word of Islam"...that can't always be done peacefully. personally, i think the middle-of-the-road in most cases is the best bet.
ugh, it's hard to explain on a computer.
Okay, i'm not concerned with the violent extremists right now, so i'll stick to this part.
If you mean, that Islam isn't a pacifist or non-violent religion, then it most certainly isn't. We should defend ourselves, there is nothing wrong with that, and i don't think any muslim claims that Islam doesn't allow us to be aggressive when need be.
As for spreading the word of Islam. Are you saying that we're instructed to spread the word of God with violence? or allowed sometimes to spread it through violent measures? I certainly hope not.
If you mean that Muslims in general have resorted sometimes to violence in spreading the religion through violence, then yeah some certainly did. That doesn't mean that the religion calls for us to do so however.
In other words, yes the religion isn't peaceful in the sense that we can never hurt anybody, no it isn't, and that is not my perception of peace. Would you agree with that?
ok
yes, this is what i mean, and we are commanded to defend ourselves. that's just common sense anyway.
no, i'm not saying this...
i AM saying this, so we agree (as always).
yes, very much so. you put it better than i did.
for what it's worth, i shall never type a post while trying to put my baby to sleep...it clouds my thoughts.
i noticed there are a ready made idea about islam that it is violent religion
i think for any 1 who want to take the truth to take it from the source not what people say
i hope this link can help
Islam Guide: A Brief Illustrated Guide to Understanding Islam, Muslims, & the Quran
i think for any 1 who want to take the truth to take it from the source not what people say
i hope this link can help
Islam Guide: A Brief Illustrated Guide to Understanding Islam, Muslims, & the Quran
McBell
Unbound
Wow, and right off the bat your linked site goes straight into the thoroughly refuted Koranic Human Embryonic Development.
You might find this thread a worthwhile read:
I would like a statistical analysis of Islamic beliefs (i.e., how many people who consider themselves Muslims should spread Sharia, etc). Then I can discuss what I think about this video. Otherwise, literal interpretation and extremism cannot be considered representative of the totality of the Islamic faith. There may be a small percentage of Muslims who believe they should kill apostates for example.
Also, you are not going to get rid of the phenomenon of confirmation bias. I don't care if Allah said that it means what is means, people are still going to pick and choose and interpret things differently, because that is human nature. It is unavoidable.
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waitasec
Veteran Member
which ones
am i understanding you correctly? you believe this punishment for fornication is ok?
i hope it is a good surprise for you
in quran who suicide allah promised him with hell
and who kill civilians his punish in earth is death and after this is hell , so death for him is his ticket to hell
so people who do suicide bombing do 2 things against islam rules
also as you read sahih bukhari i hope you find what prophet say about the rules of engagement prophet order moslems in war never to kill or harm women , old people , children , unarmed men , priests , never knock down churches or any place people worship god on it what ever their religion , never burn palm trees or fields people farm it
if you match this with what for example elqada do you will find them far away from islam
well i suggest for you to read -Maurice Bucaille, THE BIBLE, THE QUR'AN AND SCIENCE,
Wow, and right off the bat your linked site goes straight into the thoroughly refuted Koranic Human Embryonic Development.
You might find this thread a worthwhile read:
it is better
You mean which ones apply sharia?
Those would be saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan and i think Yemen. There could be more, but those are the ones i'm aware of to be fully implementing Sharia.
Like i said though, their implementation is not approved by most Muslims. As in, we don't agree with lots of their rulings and policies.
What do you mean by fornication? And what is your objection on?
I mean are you objecting to the whole idea of this punishment, or to whom its applied to?
McBell
Unbound
If it makes the same blatantly false claims as the site you linked, why bother?
I am not trying to ratify my beliefs.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Personally speaking, I am uncertain why some Muslims think that Maurice Bucaille's questionable theories have much more merit than the wild stories of an excited three year old. Both exhibit about the same level of intelligence.
waitasec
Veteran Member
In Saudi Arabia's case this includes amputations of hands and feet for robbery, and flogging for lesser crimes such as "sexual deviance" and drunkenness. The number of lashes is not clearly prescribed by law and is varied according to the discretion of judges, and ranges from dozens of lashes to several hundreds, usually applied over a period of weeks or months.
Human rights in Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
in iran
A 42-year-old mother of two faces the punishment of death by stoning in Iran after authorities convicted her of adultery...The woman, Sakineh Mohammadie Ashtiani, who is from Tabriz, was convicted of "adultery while being married" in 2006 and has already received a punishment of 99 lashes
Sakineh Mohammadie Ashtiani, Iran Mother, Could Be Stoned To Death At Any Moment
in Afghanistan
The Constitution promises equal rights for men and women, and women are permitted to work outside the home, to engage in political activity, and the Constitution requires each political party to nominate a certain number of female candidates. However, the Afghan Supreme Court is dominated by Islamic extremists who have issued various rulings and opinions that seem to be attempting to undermine women's rights; e.g. calling for segretation in schools.
During the time of Taliban rule, women had virtually all their rights taken away. Matters ranging from wearing nail polish to job opportunities were severely restricted. By keeping women indoors, the Taliban claimed to be keeping them safe from harm.
In late March 2009, Afghan President Hamid Karzai signed into law an internationally condemned "Shia Family Law" which condones apparent spousal rape (in Article 132), child marriage and imposes purdah on married Afghan women. Although the offending legislation is said to have been dormant for a year, President Karzai was trying to gain the support of Afghan northern Shia legislators and the neighbouring Islamic Republic of Iran, which is Shia-dominated. According to Britain's Independent newspaper, the 'family code' was not read in the Upper House/Senate, and also enshrines gender discrimination in inheritance law and divorce against women
Human rights in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
are these countries applying correct sharia?
my objection is human rights...
what business is it of anyone if a spouse had an affair. who cares if someone fornicated....
that is between the people involved and no one else.
to place dominion over another person only projects imperial control and no one has more worth than the next person....
and doing these things in the name of mohammed is a LAME and COWARDICE excuse to exercise such horrific treatment of a fellow human being
No, they're not. I've been trying to make that clear.
Lots of stuff thats done in those countries as supposed Islamic rulings are actually criminal acts as far as i'm concerned.
I said there must be 4 witnesses, which means its public.
No one has more worth than anybody, and there is no dominion involved here. To cheat on your wife for example with 4 people around is not something involved with the two people having sex alone.
waitasec
Veteran Member
i'm confused
you said
so i'll ask again
which countries are applying correct sharia?
waitasec
Veteran Member
so in countries where the penalty for adultery or fornication is lashings (and stonings), people are still having sex in public...?
are you serious?
I guess you missed that part:
If you didn't get what i was saying, or it wasn't clear enough, neither was other posts stating the same:
No country today is correctly applying sharia.
I can't be serious or not serious, as i'm not saying what you understood me to be saying.
The fact that they don't comply to the conditions further proves my point. These countries make up punishments, and falsely apply ones, and are generally not fair in many aspects. Thats why they're not applying correct sharia, and thats also why we always say that today there is no such thing as an Islamic state.