nonbeliever_92
Well-Known Member
No, cause that isn't true Orias.
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What evidence for God
- Thread starter nonbeliever_92
- Start date
wilsoncole
Active Member
What world are you living in?Yes Wilson, I am sure we all understand what a cause is.
What you seem to ignore is that cause and effect, or your "something from something" and "nothing from nothing" are only necessary when interacting within the spacetime of our Universe.
Time, space, cause, effect, something, nothing, etc... are all entirely meaningless before the second Planck Time of our Universe.
The Planck Epoch is only theory. Totally speculative! The Big Bang is not.
You could not know nor verify anything about that theoretical time.
"Entirely meaningless" to whom?
They cannot be meaningless to US because we live in the time/space continuum.
If they were "entirely meaningless" to us, we should be able to overcome them.
Therefore cause and effect mean everything to us who must endure time and space.
(Back to your Fallacies Logicbook)
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Wilson
outhouse
Atheistically
thats not evidence of god, picking on science is not evidence of one of many god's
your lack of education in the field is noted
Orias
Left Hand Path
waitasec
Veteran Member
McBell
Unbound
Actually, "evidence" can be defined simply as something that convinces someone of something:
"WordNet (r) 2.0"
evidence
n 1: your basis for belief or disbelief; knowledge on which to
base belief; "the evidence that smoking causes lung
cancer is very compelling" [syn: grounds]
2: an indication that makes something evident; "his trembling
was evidence of his fear"
3: (law) all the means by which any alleged matter of fact
whose truth is investigated at judicial trial is
established or disproved
v 1: provide evidence for; stand as proof of; show by one's
behavior, attitude, or external attributes; "His high
fever attested to his illness"; "The buildings in Rome
manifest a high level of architectural sophistication";
"This decision demonstrates his sense of fairness" [syn:
attest, certify, manifest, demonstrate]
2: provide evidence for; "The blood test showed that he was the
father"; "Her behavior testified to her incompetence"
[syn: testify, bear witness, prove, show]
3: give evidence; "he was telling on all his former colleague"
[syn: tell]
evidence
n 1: your basis for belief or disbelief; knowledge on which to
base belief; "the evidence that smoking causes lung
cancer is very compelling" [syn: grounds]
2: an indication that makes something evident; "his trembling
was evidence of his fear"
3: (law) all the means by which any alleged matter of fact
whose truth is investigated at judicial trial is
established or disproved
v 1: provide evidence for; stand as proof of; show by one's
behavior, attitude, or external attributes; "His high
fever attested to his illness"; "The buildings in Rome
manifest a high level of architectural sophistication";
"This decision demonstrates his sense of fairness" [syn:
attest, certify, manifest, demonstrate]
2: provide evidence for; "The blood test showed that he was the
father"; "Her behavior testified to her incompetence"
[syn: testify, bear witness, prove, show]
3: give evidence; "he was telling on all his former colleague"
[syn: tell]
wilsoncole
Active Member
Give me some nothing and I'll prove it.
I wonder what you'll say when you get it.
Actually, God is not a thing of any kind.
He's a WHO!
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Wilson
wilsoncole
Active Member
waitasec
Veteran Member
McBell
Unbound
wilsoncole
Active Member
outhouse
Atheistically
wilsoncole
Active Member
Because we know when the Universe began.
You may not even notice that you are talking about THINGS!
Energy and matter do not a universe make. They are only the building materials. They cannot become a Universe unassisted. They cannot establish and maintain orbits. They cannot keep their proper distances from each other. They cannot regulate their chemistry. They cannot prevent themselves from slamming into each other until they are all one great big ball of energy once again. They cannot separate their elements nor give themselves atomic numbers. They cannot prevent themselves from exploding repeatedly. They cannot arrange themselves in order.
But we know when the Universe began.
Why did it expand? Why did it not explode? Why did it not contract? Why did it not liquify? Why did it remain in place? Do you actually think it can can control itself?
Must I say it again?
OK !
Matter and energy do not a Universe make. They cannot.......canno.......can........ca......c.......
Understand?
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Wilson
outhouse
Atheistically
waitasec
Veteran Member
it's just amazes me that you know so much about the vastness of the universe, and yet you find stories about a burning bush to a bronze age tribal custom of scapegoating.... inspirational.
:areyoucra
Why must matter and energy be assisted? There are universal laws that are in effect even without God's help. Unless you're working under the assumption that God is involved with every minute little detail of the world. When you pick up your car keys in the morning, it isn't actually you picking them up - it's God. When you eat your lunch, God is taking the food and moving your hands, the food, and your digestive tract. And not only for you - for 6.5 billion people.
I'd like to think that a God who could create the Universe would be intelligent enough for it to run itself. Then again, that might explain why there are so many wars - God is too busy helping everyone breathe and eat to worry about the little things like preventing wars.
It must have been easy in the beginning, maybe he just didn't realize that controlling 6.5 billion people would be much more difficult than controlling a few hundred thousand.
averageJOE
zombie
This is a great point!!!
Do you really feel that your god needs to continuously micro-manage his work?
"There are two, and only two possibilities. Either the world was created or it is self-existent."
Would you like me to explain the above in more simple terms for you?
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wilsoncole
Active Member
Universal laws with no lawmaker? No law can make itself, establish itself, enforce itself.
I don't think you gave much thought to this post.
I can't give you my full attention now because I must get to work, but think of this:
What would happen if things did not break down, deteriorate? You would not be able to eat because soil would not form for the plants to grow in. Even if you manage to get one down, the meal you do eat would stay with you and not digest. You could not drive your car because the gasoline would not break down for combustion. Dead bodies would stay with you. Your garbage dumps would take over your cities and towns.
You take far too many things for granted without a single thought about how they come about.
I could carry this point very far, but you can take it from here.
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>(^)<
Wilson
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Frank Merton
Active Member
Why not? I think maybe you confuse human laws with natural laws. Natural laws by their very nature establish and enforce themselves.
To the contrary, I think his message was thoughtful. He asked you why matter and energy need help. You didn't answer: you only stated your position over again.