What happens to us when we die?

[Autodidact]

When I want to know something about the natural world, I turn to science, not the Bible. Why would you start with the Bible? That's weird.

 

[Sundree]

Everyone believes in something...even if you dont believe in a specific religion, ritual, tradition, etc. That is where faith comes in. Whether you have faith in Jesus, a Creator, God, Allah, a higher spiritual existance, something. I am interested to hear from a true atheist, as to how they believe life started.

In this thread we are focusing on how life ends, but does it? Of course we will never know until the day comes for us. Until then we have to try and put our faith into something, or not, and simply not care about it as much as others do, and just wait. But in doing that, you are still putting your faith into something...the waiting part! As a human being nobody wants to choose "hell" or the bad place, or the endless darkness, or whatever you want to call it. Who jumps into the fire? Eventually even the true atheist when face to face with the truth will have a decision to make. So with that, does all the bickering and fighting over "prove this" and "prove that" even matter? Nope.

Every human being was given three things, their body, their time, and their free will to do with their body and time as they wish. How can one person, a human being, tell another person what or how to believe? It is nice to hear others stories, and the difference is having RESPECT for everyone's rituals, traditions and beliefs.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"I am interested to hear from a true atheist, as to how they believe life started."

I don't know. Neither do you. And you make no case for bible god simply by saying "somebody must started all this." Maybe "somebody" did. But you have zero evidence it is any god humanity has invented.

I don't make up or believe in comforting fairy tales to cover my ignorance.

 

[Sundree]

"I am interested to hear from a true atheist, as to how they believe life started."

I don't know. Neither do you. And you make no case for bible god simply by saying "somebody must started all this." Maybe "somebody" did. But you have zero evidence it is any god humanity has invented.

I don't make up or believe in comforting fairy tales to cover my ignorance.

Hi Omar - from the sound of your post, you may just be the true atheist I was hoping would post here. I would like to converse with you on this topic in a respectful way, if you are in fact capable of having a respectful conversation.

I dont claim to make any case for "bible god" and I am not saying "Somebody must have started this" You say, "Maybe 'somebody' did" EXACTLY. We dont know!!! With so many maybe's about EVERYTHING, one can only assume. I am just as ignorant as you. So, as an atheist, what do you believe? Or better yet, what don't you believe? Are you fearful of your ignorance?

 

[Thief]

Thief here...someone did ask....
There are only two possibilities during the hour when you lay down to breath your last breathe.
You will fail to go on....your body into the box... and the box into the grave.
Eternal darkness is physically real.

Or...you will stand up (resurrect).
In which case you will deal with anyone having gone before you.

Here in this world there is hierarchy. I see no cause to assume this practice won't carry over. I then assume it does.

Some types of practice won't carry over. Sleeping, eating, drinking,...etc.
Communication will be telepathic.
They will be able to see who...or what you really are.
They will deal with you accordingly.

To lay in the grave and wait for someone to dig you up...and put you back together...is to wishful thinking.
Eternal life is spiritual. God is spirit. The Sons of God are spirit.

 

[CarlinKnew]

At what point in evolution did life gain the possibility of an afterlife? Does an orangutan's soul live eternally? Does he need to repent and be saved? How about a salmon's soul, or a dust mite's or an ebola virus'?

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"So, as an atheist, what do you believe? Or better yet, what don't you believe? Are you fearful of your ignorance?"

Myself when young did eagerly frequent
Doctor and Saint, and heard great argument
About it and about: but evermore
Came out by the same door where in I went.

With them the seed of Wisdom did I sow,
And with mine own hand wrought to make it grow;
And this was all the Harvest that I reap'd--
"I came like Water, and like Wind I go."

Into this Universe, and Why not knowing
Nor Whence, like Water willy-nilly flowing;
And out of it, as Wind along the Waste,
I know not Whither, willy-nilly blowing.

What, without asking, hither hurried Whence?
And, without asking, Whither hurried hence!
Oh, many a Cup of this forbidden Wine
Must drown the memory of that insolence!



From the Fitzgerald translation of his Rubaiyat

 

[Sundree]

So if I may interpret what your riddling has given me. You only know what you know. You have made a decision not to ponder things that you dont know. This means you are either using your brain over your heart, or using neither. Either way, when it comes to something you will never know until you die (possibly), you are not afraid because you dont care enough about what happens to put your faith in something that you cannot prove truly exists. You refuse to have culture, traditions, beliefs in things you cannot prove, and in turn simply do nothing but wait to see what happens.

this doesnt mean you dont believe in God, you simply just dont know yet.

So lets play the hypothetical game.

What will you do when you die and you are face to face in front of God. Will you turn and run, or will you bow down and worship?

What will you do when you die and you are all knowing now looking back at your life on Earth. Will you be happy with yourself, or dissatisfied?

These are yes or no type of questions. No need to riddle me.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Sorry that poetry is a riddle for you. Perhaps you should read more. Might expand your abiity to understand.

Here. This is mine, original, FBOW.

I will leave with few regrets.
I picked the roads. I placed the bets.
My triumphs and disasters were my own.
I shared no credit and laid no blame
Sought no favors as I played the game.

Now the tears are shed the passion spent.
The wine is drunk the muse content
There is little now to lament
The work is done.
Those who follow can assess.
It matters not to me; I wish only rest.

And if a god asks why I paid it no heed
I will reply simply - I felt no need.
And if that answer does not suffice
That ego I will not feed.
I will neither bow my head nor bend my knee
Content that what will be will be.



And this (NOT mine):

“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.”
—Marcus Aurelius Antoninus

 

[logician]

I am interested to hear from a true atheist, as to how they believe life started."

What, were they supposed to be present at said event?

Acutally, if one was present as an "external observer" when life started a billion of so years ago, you would never have known it, it likely happened deep in the ocean, around hydrothermal vents.

 

[Thief]

Thief here...and a journey to the bottom of the ocean will show us what about life after death?
I know.....reincarnation to a sea worm.

 

[Willamena]

What, were they supposed to be present at said event?

In a sense, each and every moment is "said event".

 

[Sundree]

Hi Omar,

Well if you really feel the need to state that your writing was a poem, and not truly a riddle-poem, then let me show you a quick description of where riddling came from:

"Riddles occur extensively in Old English poetry, and also in the Old Norse literature of the Ancient Edda and the skalds. Riddles thus have a distinguished literary ancestry, although the contemporary sort of conundrum that passes under the name of "riddle" may not make this obvious. In the Anglo-Saxon world, the wis had wisdom due to their wit – their ability to conciliate and mediate by maintaining multiple perspectives, which has degenerated into a species of comedy, but was not always a mere laughing matter. This wit was taught with a form of oral tradition called the riddle, a collection of which were bound, along with various other gnomic verses and maxims ca. 800 A.D and deposited in Exeter Cathedral in the eleventh century - the so-called Exeter Book, one of the most important collection of Old English manuscripts which has survived."

So putting technical terms aside, based on what you wrote, you tell me how you see it best fit to be interpreted. It appears when someone asks you what you believe and you write them a "poem" in response, then it is up for that person's interpretation. So how is that a good explanation of what you, Omar, believe?

 

[Nepenthe]

Everyone believes in something...even if you dont believe in a specific religion, ritual, tradition, etc.

Not even sure what this means. Sure, I believe in lots of things.

That is where faith comes in. Whether you have faith in Jesus, a Creator, God, Allah, a higher spiritual existance, something.

Nope. No faith whatsoever.

I am interested to hear from a true atheist, as to how they believe life started.

I don't believe, I hypothesize based on the available evidence. The origin of life is still very much a mystery, though research has opened some amazing insights in the last decade. Suffice it to say, whatever the specific circumstances that sparked life, it was a consequence of chemistry and physics and doesn't require any intent or supernatural intervention.

In this thread we are focusing on how life ends, but does it?

Sure it does- cessation of the physical processes in the brain equals non-existence.

Of course we will never know until the day comes for us. Until then we have to try and put our faith into something, or not, and simply not care about it as much as others do, and just wait.

Faith again! No, the evidence is overwhelming that what we call a mind is an emergent property of the brain- consciousness is dependent on physiology.

But in doing that, you are still putting your faith into something...the waiting part!

As a human being nobody wants to choose "hell" or the bad place, or the endless darkness, or whatever you want to call it. Who jumps into the fire? Eventually even the true atheist when face to face with the truth will have a decision to make. So with that, does all the bickering and fighting over "prove this" and "prove that" even matter? Nope.

No, especially when death is the end, there's no evidence for an afterlife and when you shut down what was "you" becomes nothingness.

Every human being was given three things, their body, their time, and their free will to do with their body and time as they wish. How can one person, a human being, tell another person what or how to believe? It is nice to hear others stories, and the difference is having RESPECT for everyone's rituals, traditions and beliefs.

Well, I could quibble over the whole free will thing but I won't. I will quibble over the "RESPECT for everyone's rituals, traditions and beliefs." I don't accept all beliefs as equal or worthy of respect. Sure, my views aren't radically different from some deists, pantheists, Unitarians, etc. in that we likely share similar basic ideals, but I certainly don't respect the abject stupidity of creationists or some religious folks whose faith compels them to deny gay and lesbian rights or bigotry in general. I have nothing but contempt for ignorance.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"So putting technical terms aside, based on what you wrote, you tell me how you see it best fit to be interpreted. It appears when someone asks you what you believe and you write them a "poem" in response, then it is up for that person's interpretation. So how is that a good explanation of what you, Omar, believe?"

You sound like the gravedigger in Hamlet.


This I believe.

There is a world external to me that exists independent of me and independent of my perception of it. It was here before me and will be long after I am gone.
My senses allow me to experience this external world.
Reason is valid tool in understanding this world.
My existence is purely physical. The universe is purely physical. Gods are human inventions.
My life has such meaning as I say it does – no more no less.

That literal enough for you to understand or do you need the 2nd grade version? I limited it to words of 3 syllables (except "independent.") I do hope that doesn't over tax your vocabulary.

(Oops :sorry1: that word is way too long.)

Hope that does not include words you do not know.

 

[Deeje]

You sound like the gravedigger in Hamlet.


This I believe.

There is a world external to me that exists independent of me and independent of my perception of it. It was here before me and will be long after I am gone.
My senses allow me to experience this external world.
Reason is valid tool in understanding this world.
My existence is purely physical. The universe is purely physical. Gods are human inventions.
My life has such meaning as I say it does – no more no less.

That literal enough for you to understand or do you need the 2nd grade version? I limited it to words of 3 syllables (except "independent.") I do hope that doesn't over tax your vocabulary.

(Oops :sorry1: that word is way too long.)

Hope that does not include words you do not know.

Arrogance does nothing to enhance your (apparent) wealth of knowledge Omar. Wisdom is the ability to apply knowledge. Temper that with some respect for what others have to say ('even the dull and ignorant have their story') and you have the difference between a self righteous (albeit poetic) individual and a decent human human being who has no need to elevate his own beliefs over someone else's.
Condescension is a very unattractive quality displayed toward someone who appeared to be just trying to understand your position. It is a position that many of us find difficult to comprehend.
Are the godless self absorbed and miserable and mean spirited because they have no hope beyond this life?....why do they need to be the self-appointed arbiters of other people's beliefs. If you feel we are deluded, then why can't you allow us our delusion?

It's a big planet, how about sharing it with those less educated or intelligent than your learned self? What does it cost you to allow us to be spiritual? You can be as physical as you wish with nothing to look forward to except to 'eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you are to die'? How much 'meaning' does your life really have in the big scheme of things?

BTW, wonder who it was who designed your senses so that you can 'experience the external world'? Wonder who designed the external world? Or did it all just happen by accident? Your faith must be stronger than ours to believe all this just popped into existence by mindless chance.

Deeje

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Condescension is a very unattractive quality displayed toward someone who appeared to be just trying to understand your position. It is a position that many of us find difficult to comprehend.

I simply DO NOT believe that. I think both you AND the poster know EXACTLY what I mean and what the poet meant and what Marcus Aurelius meant. They are all very clear and direct. It takes no special gift to grasp the meaning. Any high school student would not only be able to do it but recognize the Rubaiyat quote. It is the second most quoted poem in the English language. To pretend it can’t be understood is ludicrous.

If you feel we are deluded, then why can't you allow us our delusion?

I would be more than happy to; anxious even. But your fellow believers are not content with that. They are busy as we speak working to enact laws and commit acts that will require me to act as if I believed their myth. Have you forgotten 9/11, OBL, Pat Robertson, Gary Bauer, a few thousand Imams, Ann Coulter and Brent Bozell? If you will keep your myth out of the public square I will be more than happy to allow you to believe any nonsense you wish. Have at it. Nobody cares; certainly not me. But keep thy religion to thyself.

It's a big planet, how about sharing it with those less educated or intelligent than your learned self? What does it cost you to allow us to be spiritual?

A lot. Why tell me what books I may read or what moves I may see? Why try to control who I may invite into my bedroom under what terms and what we may do there? Why do you insist on teaching your mythology in public schools? Why am I required to pay for having the symbols of your religion plastered on public buildings?

Get OUT of my life and I will more than happy to have nothing to do with yours.:shout

How much 'meaning' does your life really have in the big scheme of things?

As much and exactly what I say it does; nothing more nothing less.

Why is it that the religious among us can’t see this life as a truly wondrous gift? IF there is/was a designer we have been given a life to do with pretty much as we choose. No rewards promised no punishments threatened. And we have intelligence, if we are willing to use it, which allows us to change our environment more to our liking. We can get out of our lives as much – or as little – as WE chose.

But this is not enough. They create this invisible sugar daddy who watches over them like a mother hen. They are apparently afraid to live their lives on their own. They need this crutch to “comfort” them. They need this promise of an eternal afterlife spent worshiping this “god” thing. Like a creature capable of running the universe would give a R*A* about what they think.

 

[Heneni]

Are there clues in the Bible? for example, Adam...........

God created Adam
Welcome to Holy Bible the site dedicated to God's word. check out the Online KJV (King James Version) bible and a search.
Genesis2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
God tells Adam what is his fate, having disobeyed God.
Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Adam was created out of dust; and he returns to dust. Is that it? Is there more to death?

Further consideration.........

Ecclesiastes9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in anything that is done under the sun.
9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Psalms 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.​

How about Lazarus?​

John11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.

11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

J11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.​

11:38 Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.​

11:39 Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.​

11:40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?​

11:41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.​

11:42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.​

11:43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.​

11:44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.​

Would there be anything left of these people who had "gone to dust"?, (apart from the dust?)​

God created adam and eve as spirits. Then clothed them with bodies made of atoms. He then breathed a soul into them. When we die our bodies returns to atoms in the ground. Our spirit leaves the body with the breath of life which is in the soul. When we have no body we are naked. Hence at the return of jesus he will give us new bodies. When adam and eve sinned they realised they were naked. Naked as in had no natural clothes on. In the natural world you are naked when you dont have clothes on, in the spiritual world you are naked if you have no body. Hence the need to give us bodies at the resurrection.


Heneni

 

[Thief]

Thief here...Hey Omar...
I see it's not going so well for you.
What can I say that would make you feel better?

Obviously you participate in these debates attempting to make yourself feel better.
Is it working?

From your last posting I get the impression you are becoming increasingly
frustrated.
And with no hope of an after life....

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Thief here...Hey Omar...
I see it's not going so well for you.
What can I say that would make you feel better?

Obviously you participate in these debates attempting to make yourself feel better.
Is it working?

From your last posting I get the impression you are becoming increasingly
frustrated.
And with no hope of an after life....

If you are attempting to be a analysis on the side . . . keep your day job.