What happens to us when we die?

[OmarKhayyam]

“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.”
—Marcus Aurelius Antoninus

 

[OmarKhayyam]

So your skepticism will not serve you well unfortunately. Like him or not, you will answer to him...."God is not one to be mocked". :sad:

Maybe. So what? Even you are right;not bloody likely but arguendo - it matters not to me.

And if a god asks why I paid it no heed
I will reply simply - I felt no need.
And if that answer does not suffice
That ego I will not feed.
I will neither bow my head nor bend my knee
Content that what will be will be.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Experience teaches us that there is no benevolent and merciful God, and although your threats and proselytising are entirely in keeping with that view, such postings bring religious belief into disrepute

I beg to differ.

Such statements ARE religious belief.

 

[AlsoAnima]

“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.”
—Marcus Aurelius Antoninus

A good quote. :yes:

 

[Deeje]

My disagreement with you doesn’t concern belief or non-belief in the existence a Creator; it concerns the incoherent reasoning, self-contradictory explanations and the presuming to speak for God. Nothing you’ve written is in any sense true: it is simply a belief. However, even speculative beliefs have to make sense. Consider some of the things you’ve said: ‘God never intended this to be the case’, and ‘…an abuse of free will threw a spanner in the works’, also: ‘It has taken a long time for things to be worked out to a successful conclusion’. You are presuming to describe the omnipotent, omniscient, eternal, infinite, transcendent, immanent and immutable Creator of all existence…and yet you (unintentionally) attribute failure and a lack of achievement to this deity! And I can tell you that God doesn’t ‘have to do things the way he has’. If there is a God he doesn’t have to do anything!
In addition to this you imply that unbelievers are incapable of co-existing peaceably with their fellows, which is arrant nonsense. As a matter of fact history has shown us plenty of examples where God believers have inflicted unspeakable atrocities upon their fellow humans. And I invite to give me an example of ‘self-centred individuals’, and then by return I will show how this self-centredness also extends to theists. And you might also want to give an explanation of how ‘investigating in depth’ leads to proof that a dogmatically held doctrine is true? Experience teaches us that there is no benevolent and merciful God, and although your threats and proselytising are entirely in keeping with that view, such postings bring religious belief into disrepute.

Funny, but I thought this was a place to discuss religious beliefs!
As I mentioned before, "you have a right to say and do whatever you please. As a skeptic I doubt anyone could convince you of anything." Least of all me.

The 'threats' you mention are 'warnings' actually, and they are not mine. In informing you of them I have discharged my 'responsibility' towards you. I cannot make anyone do anything about their beliefs. Nor does God. He offers and then stands back to see what we will do with his proposition. (to serve him or not)

If you want to shoot the messenger, go ahead...it makes no difference in the big picture.
I am always amused at the 'wise and intellectual' who think that their way is the only way and their thoughts the only thoughts that should be entertained. The condescension is palpable. :sad:

However, just because you don't believe God is there, doesn't make him go away.

If you wish to discredit the Creator because of the actions of those who are entirely misguided in their actions, (those who claim to represent him but who's actions belie their claim,) then that is entirely your choice. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is a common reaction. If you believe that God in any way supports these people, just because they 'claim' to be "believers", then you are as deluded as you imply that they are. The Creator is not a moron!

I did not "attribute failure and a lack of achievement to this deity" I simply stated that "Peace can never be achieved if dissenting individuals are allowed to co exist with believers. There would always be friction, robbing us all of a peaceful existence. Look at the present state of the world....do you just want more of the same? I don't!! Neither does the Creator." When I say "believers", ....I mean "true" believers. Can you deny that the bloodshed on this planet has more to do with religion and ethnicity than any other cause? Getting rid of 'misguided religion' is essential in bringing about the peace we all long for. True Christianity knows no country, is beholding to no political nation...it should transcend all earthly considerations and it should be the identifying mark of all who genuinely follow Christ.

May I take this quote and return it back to you? " Nothing you’ve written is in any sense true: it is simply a belief."
Beliefs!....we've all got 'em, and we are all entitled to them. If you wish to live in a godless vacuum, I'm sure you have lots of company, all equally convinced of their own truth.
‘self-centered individuals’ are not "God-centered" individuals. These are ones who believe that the miracle of life was not a gift but something attributed to mindless chance....genetic Russian roulette....life 'sprang' into existence all by itself!

This 'gift' is not without conditions you see, and God will allow us all to be caught in the act of being ourselves. He is observing the hearts of all. (whether you believe it or not, the result will be the same.)

It's a big planet, Cottage, why can't you share it even with us poor deluded souls who, in your opinion, " bring religious belief into disrepute"? :drool: We are only doing what we feel is right, just like you are.

Deeje

 

[Deeje]

Maybe. So what? Even you are right;not bloody likely but arguendo - it matters not to me.

And if a god asks why I paid it no heed
I will reply simply - I felt no need.
And if that answer does not suffice
That ego I will not feed.
I will neither bow my head nor bend my knee
Content that what will be will be.

So be it Omar....you have no need to convince me...I am no one, just a messenger.
Shake your fist at the one to whom you are accountable....it probably 'matters not' to him either.

 

[Autodidact]

To answer the question, we really don't know. However, the best evidence seems to indicate that if by "us" you mean our consciousness, our ability to perceive, remember and have a sense of self, that when we die, we cease to exist.

 

[cottage]

Deeje: Funny, but I thought this was a place to discuss religious beliefs!

Yes, that’s right, it is, but it is not for proselytising and implying menace to those who happen to take a different view.

Deeje: As I mentioned before, "you have a right to say and do whatever you please. As a skeptic I doubt anyone could convince you of anything." Least of all me.

The 'threats' you mention are 'warnings' actually, and they are not mine. In informing you of them I have discharged my 'responsibility' towards you. I cannot make anyone do anything about their beliefs. Nor does God. He offers and then stands back to see what we will do with his proposition. (to serve him or not)

If you make a threat, then that threat is yours. And no, God doesn’t ‘stand back to see what we will do’; if he exists, he already knows.

Deeje: f you want to shoot the messenger, go ahead...it makes no difference in the big picture.
I am always amused at the 'wise and intellectual' who think that their way is the only way and their thoughts the only thoughts that should be entertained. The condescension is palpable.

I find it breathtaking that can accuse others of condescension for daring to question a dogma, when your position is one of uttering lofty pronouncements that don’t even make sense.

Deeje: However, just because you don't believe God is there, doesn't make him go away.

And just because you have a belief doesn’t mean the belief is true.

Deeje: If you wish to discredit the Creator because of the actions of those who are entirely misguided in their actions, (those who claim to represent him but who's actions belie their claim,) then that is entirely your choice. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is a common reaction. If you believe that God in any way supports these people, just because they 'claim' to be "believers", then you are as deluded as you imply that they are. The Creator is not a moron!

I did not "attribute failure and a lack of achievement to this deity" I simply stated that "Peace can never be achieved if dissenting individuals are allowed to co exist with believers. There would always be friction, robbing us all of a peaceful existence. Look at the present state of the world....do you just want more of the same? I don't!! Neither does the Creator."

If there is a God, such as the one you describe, then failure and a lack of achievement are evident. This not only fits with your owns words but also corresponds perfectly the facts of our existence.


Deeje: When I say "believers", ....I mean "true" believers. Can you deny that the bloodshed on this planet has more to do with religion and ethnicity than any other cause? Getting rid of 'misguided religion' is essential in bringing about the peace we all long for. True Christianity knows no country, is beholding to no political nation...it should transcend all earthly considerations and it should be the identifying mark of all who genuinely follow Christ.

You’ve skipped the crucial point that I raised to concentrate on the lesser one. I was taking issue with your incorrect implication that unbelievers are incapable of living peaceable with their fellow humans, which is pure nonsense.

Deeje: May I take this quote and return it back to you? " Nothing you’ve written is in any sense true: it is simply a belief."
Beliefs!....we've all got 'em, and we are all entitled to them. If you wish to live in a godless vacuum, I'm sure you have lots of company, all equally convinced of their own truth.

Of course everyone has beliefs, all of which are compounded from experience, no matter how imaginative or far-fetched, and in all cases the beliefs must be intelligible. And by the way, it is you who are making truth claims, not me. I’m pointing out that your claims are unsound.


Deeje: ‘self-centered individuals’ are not "God-centered" individuals. These are ones who believe that the miracle of life was not a gift but something attributed to mindless chance....genetic Russian roulette....life 'sprang' into existence all by itself!

Now you’re just making it up as you go along. I don’t believe that life sprang from random chance, but I can assure you that certainly doesn’t make me a ‘God-centred individual’! And I’m still waiting for you to explain how unbelievers are ‘self-centred individuals’ so that I can give you my response.


Deeje: This 'gift' is not without conditions you see, and God will allow us all to be caught in the act of being ourselves. He is observing the hearts of all. (whether you believe it or not, the result will be the same.)

More nonsense: ‘God will allow us to be ourselves’. If there is a God then we are what God created. The very notion of the Supreme Being waiting and watching to see what we do is almost too absurd for words.

Deeje: It's a big planet, Cottage, why can't you share it even with us poor deluded souls who, in your opinion, " bring religious belief into disrepute"? We are only doing what we feel is right, just like you are.

You misunderstand. I have no objection at all to you having your faith. What I find objectionable is the way you involve others in your beliefs, informing people because they don’t share your beliefs they will suffer for it. And please don’t patronise with me that unintelligent nonsense about ‘giving warnings’. For a person to be receptive to such warnings first requires the person to believe the dogma is true. So if the person is dismissive of the dogma, then it follows that the warnings and implied threats are also dismissed. So the issuing of such mindless warnings says more about the speaker than Christianity.

 

[logician]

"What happens to us when we die? "

You star in the next episode of "GHOSTHUNTERS".

 

[Autodidact]

If I am not mistaken Omar, there are more moves afoot to ban religion than there are to promote it.

Yes. You're mistaken.

I agree with you, it is the most divisive element on the planet; that's why God is going to get rid of it and use the political elements to do it. (It's all in Revelation)...stay tuned. :cover:

Kind of easy to make predictions with no timeline. I predict that you will turn into an airborne potato. Stay tuned.

I can't see God zapping you with a big cattle prod controlling what you do..

I don't see God doing anything whatsoever

.maybe if he did you would have more respect.

I might begin to suspect the He exists, for starters.

You can pretty much do as you please....we are all going to be caught in the act of being ourselves.

In your case, you should probably start worrying now.

Don't care? Maybe you should.

I just focus on being my best self all the time, regardless of possible mythical judgments.

 

[Autodidact]

That lack of consensus you speak of is something duly noted by the Creator as well Omar.

HOw do you know?

Do you think he is blind AND stupid?

NO, I think He's non-existent. Alternatively, He's doing a great job of pretending not to exist.

This situation was foretold in the Bible....it is to be expected. 'Wheat' and 'weeds' were to 'grow together' until the 'harvest time'. Guess what? It's harvest time now.

REally? Now? How can you tell?

Your introduction to angels will not be the one you desire. They are described as the 'reapers', dispatched to collect the 'weeds' and destroy them.

And you are going to win the lottery. Stay tuned.

Cleaning up this planet and getting rid of the elements that are ruining it, is what Armageddon is all about. Only those who have respect for the Creator and his creation will be permitted to keep the gift of life.

How's your past track record of predicting the future? Is there some reason we should pay the slightest attention to your predictions?

If you had a beautiful place that you took the time and effort to built with your own hands and you allowed tenants in who ended up being hell bent on destroying it and each other, would you not evict them, repair the damage and be very careful whom you allowed to live there in future?

Uh, yeah. Is there a point?

The Creator is actually in control of the situation even though the majority of humans may not realize it. He is fully aware of what needs to happen and whom he will allow to enjoy his handy work in the future.

How do you know?

Do you have any evidence in support of any of your statements, or do you just pull them out of your pants?

 

[Deeje]

HOw do you know? NO, I think He's non-existent. Alternatively, He's doing a great job of pretending not to exist. REally? Now? How can you tell? And you are going to win the lottery. Stay tuned.

How's your past track record of predicting the future? Is there some reason we should pay the slightest attention to your predictions?

Uh, yeah. Is there a point?
How do you know?

Do you have any evidence in support of any of your statements, or do you just pull them out of your pants?

Ummmm....with an attitiude like that, I reckon Jesus Christ himself could tap you on the shoulder and personally deliver the message and you still wouldn't believe it. You'd probably form a posse and have him lynched again!

Nothing I could provide as "proof" would suffice for you Auto. That's why its called 'faith'. Described in the Bible as "the assured expectation of things hoped for; the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld." Heb 11:1

"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God; for it is written: “He catches the wise in their own cunning.” And again: “Jehovah knows that the reasonings of the wise men are futile.” 1Cor3:19, 20

That tap on the shoulder is coming BTW....so maybe you should stay tuned too. :faint:

Deeje

 

[Autodidact]

Ummmm....with an attitiude like that, I reckon Jesus Christ himself could tap you on the shoulder and personally deliver the message and you still wouldn't believe it. You'd probably form a posse and have him lynched again!

Don't make presumptions, just answer the questions, if you can.

My attitude is open--to evidence. Got any?

Nothing I could provide as "proof" would suffice for you Auto. That's why its called 'faith'. Described in the Bible as "the assured expectation of things hoped for; the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld." Heb 11:1

Oh, O.K. Never mind. Nice job witnessing there, Deeje.

That tap on the shoulder is coming BTW....so maybe you should stay tuned too.

:faint:Actually, you are going to become an atheist. Stay tuned.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"Ummmm....with an attitiude like that, I reckon Jesus Christ himself could tap you on the shoulder and personally deliver the message and you still wouldn't believe it. You'd probably form a posse and have him lynched again! '

Or call Ghost Busters.

 

[idea]

My attitude is open--to evidence. Got any?

Let's hear your evidence that God does not exist.
Please prove the origin of life/the universe/ and everything.
Just theories? no proof? too bad.

 

[Thief]

Thief here....
Apparently when you don't believe in life after death...all you can do is say...
'No one has proof there is life after death.'

Of course the opening question has made that assumption.

The answers that follow should have been a variety of beliefs....as if those beliefs will be realized.

Such is faith. There is no proof required.

I do believe in life after death.
Mishaps and accidents have left me blind for seven days....brought my limbs to a cold and unresponsive condition...and again to another occasion where I was beyond pain for more than an hour.
These mishaps have collectively convinced me, that my thoughts and feelings continue....in spite of bodily harm.

When this mortal coil shuts down completely, I will go on without it.
I am willing to say this for my sake and in so doing... will do so again for all others.
The difference will be how I will cope with the new surroundings as compared to someone caught without a clue.... what to expect.

Your expectations will influence how you respond....when your last breath leaves you.

 

[Autodidact]

Let's hear your evidence that God does not exist.
Please prove the origin of life/the universe/ and everything.
Just theories? no proof? too bad.

Apparently the standard in this thread is just to make declarations as if they were fact, so I think I'll join in the general trend. There is no God! That was fun.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

IF there are gods there is zero evidence they give a crap about us.

Even so I'll chicken out. I DON'T know. You don't either. And neither of us will EVER know.

 

[Deeje]

Don't make presumptions, just answer the questions, if you can.
My attitude is open--to evidence. Got any?
Oh, O.K. Never mind. Nice job witnessing there, Deeje.

:faint:Actually, you are going to become an atheist. Stay tuned.

Ok Auto, practice what you preach. I too would like you to provide what evidence you can furnish for your own beliefs (or lack of them.)
If you demand evidence....where is your own? Are they not assumptions too, based on faith? Pot calling the kettle black?

The universe itself testifies to the existence of a creator. Laws govern its workings; they operate like clockwork.
Do you own a wristwatch Auto? What if I told you it didn't have a maker...that it just evolved and I found it in the woods and sold it to a jewelery store who sold it to you?

Or what if I told you that the house next door just simply appeared over a few million years, complete with floor coverings, furniture, fridge full of food, lighting, plumbing and heating, pets....no one made it, it just happened all by itself....
The earth itself is seriously more complex than any house.
Do you see how ridiculous your arguments are? You could shuffle all the parts of something as simple as a mouse trap around for sixty thousand years and never have those parts come together in the precise order for them to ever be a mouse trap. :slap:

How do beings who have never seen, know it is beneficial to produce eyes....or ears if they have never heard sound? How many kinds of eyes do you think there are? Cat's eyes, eagle's eyes, fish eyes? And how many kinds of ears do you think there are? How do creatures as diverse as bats and dolphins develop sonar, independently? These all just popped out of thin air did they?

Do you know how many times you would have to repeat those ridiculous assumptions attached to evolution for all the myriad living things on this planet? Not to mention the earth's position in relation to the sun....not to mention its water cycles and the fact that trees exhale what we breathe and breathe what we exhale. All accidents of mindless evolution?

And I am going to become an atheist?...What shower of rain did you come down in? :biglaugh:Seriously......

 

[Deeje]

IF there are gods there is zero evidence they give a crap about us.

Even so I'll chicken out. I DON'T know. You don't either. And neither of us will EVER know.

There is ample evidence that the creator cares about us Omar. You would not be capable of experiencing anything pleasant if it were not for the design of your physical body.
Without eyes you would behold nothing wondrous, without ears you could not enjoy music or the sound of the voices you love. Without touch you could not appreciate how good it feels to pat a dog or hold a baby. Taste buds would be useless if food was without flavor. Isn't the best part of anticipating a meal the aroma of food cooking?
Just your senses alone should tell you life was meant to be experienced and enjoyed.

But without the beauty of the natural world or music or aromas or color, your senses would be useless. Do you honestly believe that we are here for no apparent reason?

There is purpose to our being and it is revealed in the Bible. Take off the blinkers and really see what the Creator is trying to tell you. All that we hope for is waiting for us, all we have to do is ask for it to be revealed. Do you really believe that our Creator went to all this trouble for nothing....

Deeje