What Happens When We Die?

[Aupmanyav]

No, nor did I offer it as such, only a possible theory, based minimally in fact, yes, but facts nonetheless. I don't rely either on highly questionable NDEs, though I can't discount them completely either. That the universe is a quantum computer is almost beyond scientific dispute. And if it does exist, our consciousnesses are a part of its programming.

True. We have still to know a lot about the universe. Basically, if it is eternal or arises from 'absolute nothing' (ex-nihilo). But NDEs are not questionable. They are a fact of life. At a time when all other functions of the body have ceased and only thinking/imagination remain. That is the last game that brain/mind plays.

 

[Phantasman]

First of all, Christ Jesus was talking to those of Israel.

Ok, so how do you love your enemies ?

Yes John does say, but you didn't finish the Verse, here's the Verse ---"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life"

Notice ( whosoever believeth in him) now here's a question, How does the atheists fit into that, Seeing atheists do not believe in God or Christ Jesus should not perish ?

I just knew you'd spin this. Does that mean God hates atheists, or don't love them as you said? Was there a time you didn't know or believe in God? People are given all the time they have alive to accept Christ teachings. Is that when God starts loving them? Does he hate Muslims? Buddhists? How about Jews that don't accept Christ Jesus?

Quit painting yourself into a corner. I'm trying to be patient. The Gospel wasn't spoken to the Jews. It was spoken to mankind. Every word Jesus spoke was from the Father to all men.

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.- Matthew

 

[Phantasman]

If rocks can record the fluctuations of the magnetic field, I don't see why the universe can't somehow store a record of us somewhere.

The big disc drive in the sky?

Reminds me of a song by Journey.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I see evolution ignores the question of intelligence in its processes at all costs.

Faith in intelligence ignores what all the atoms are capable of doing.

My core exists within me and will exit on my dying, ..

Exit! Nothing exits. The whole of you will join the cosmos. Or that you are even now you are a part of it. You never were separate, are not separate now, and you would never be separate. Krishna said:

"Na tv evāhaḿ jātu nāsaḿ, na tvaḿ neme janādhipāḥ;
na caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ, sarve vayam ataḥ param." BhagawadGita 2.12
(Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.)

Whether unto life in God in eternal life or Satan unto eternal death.This eternal death, is when God destroys all the spirits that made their decision to be with Satan. They will have no part in the new earth. That anything that has sin in it will be eradicated from off the face of the Earth.

Yeah, some people at the beginning of 1st Century were impressed by this rhetoric.

Oh, that includes Hitler and Charles Manson. They get a special place too.
There is no of eternal torment. It would be illogical and inconsistent with a God of love.

I don't know. Some people here say that I am with Satan and I have a soul which God/Jesus will destroy.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many. Matthew 27:52:53

They were talking about saints who had fallen asleep and not the dead. Probably they were interned alive just like this person, Jesus.

As a Baha'i I believe after we die we eventually go to many spiritual worlds. Heaven and hell are spiritual states, it is not a place. If you're close to God, you're in heaven, if you're far away you're in hell. A good action gets you closer to God, a bad action gets you further from God.

Remove God and his sons, manifestations, messengers, prophets, and what you said simply is "Good action, you are in heaven. Bad action, you are in hell". Why, then, do you need a God or his army.

.. is not to let the dead stay dead ..

That is the biggest problem in the world and creates so much discord. You would not let dead stay dead. You don't give them even this freedom to stay dead. I wish you hadn't tried so hard.

 

[Aupmanyav]

First you have to understand that God loves those who loves him.

Yeah, I have heard of a jealous God, so jealous that he is near mad and will be "visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me."

So the requirement that you need to believe in them when you die (given that such a requirement exists, and given it's a good idea) seems to be extremely arbitrary and unfair, and to have been very grossly mismanaged forever, and at the bare minimum for the last two millennia.

I think Mormons have solved the problem. They can make even a dead person Christian.

If rocks can record the fluctuations of the magnetic field, I don't see why the universe can't somehow store a record of us somewhere.

When there is a lot of garbage on the computer we send it to cleaners. Why do you think the universe will keep a useless record?

 

[Buddha Dharma]

I can tell you what Buddhist tradition typically says happens at the moment of death. This is a Mahayana perspective, so I'm not speaking for Theravada.

What the Tibetan Book of the Dead says is more or less typical for Mahayana's perspective.

Buddhists deny a soul/continuation of the ego self. Nonetheless, we hold in Mahayana Buddhism that there is a pure consciousness trapped in Samsara. What this means has long been the subject of debate. What is agreed by Buddhists is that it is not the 'I'-self- the person you see yourself as now.

Whenever someone dies, this 'I'-self quickly fades away with the separation from the body.

If you've read the Tibetan Book of the Dead, which I use for it's familiarity to westerners in documentaries, hippie culture, and reading- you know that the first state after death is a shock of being disembodied.

This shock is when the 'I-self' of the life you lived is quickly forgotten and fades into the background.

At some point you become aware of a light, which is your affinity with Buddha-nature.

If you do not shy away from this light, or feel discomforted by it- you have attained release from Samsara. It is said that a consciousness bound by violence or killing in it's most previous life might experience fear and terror toward the light- which is really the heaviness of violence and killing.

After this failure to go into Nirvana, which is the only way the following process of rebirth is halted- a person begins the cycle.

I won't treat all the imagery as literal and it would be a lot to talk about. What I will say is that Buddha and Bodhisattva merit then enter the equation.

Upon failing to enter Nirvana and turning one's back on the light- any Buddhas and Bodhisattvas chanted to on the person's behalf then step in.

The most favorable thing that can happen at this stage is for Amida Buddha to take the consciousness to his Pure Land. There people learn from the Cosmic Buddha directly and serve him until granted a favorable rebirth.

To receive this merit, it is traditionally held one must chant the Amitabha Powa near the time of death, or have it chanted for them.

Any Bodhisattvas or deities may then step in. Kisitigarba/Jizo is a good Bodhisattva to ask for merit, as he has vowed not to enter absolute Nirvana until all hell realms are emptied.

Deities might take favor to the consciousness being reborn. That will bring about rebirth in a deva/god realm. However, this is a very dangerous rebirth to take. Because if one in the god realms does not cultivate good karma, but enjoys only the pleasures and bliss of being divine- they will eventually undergo a lesser birth as a result of selfishness.

Only a deva can remain in this realm for the remainder of this universe's life. Anyone else there is permitted to stay until their worth in good karma is exhausted. Then they are called to the god of the dead for rebirth.

If none of this happens, the person eventually gets judged by Yama, the god of the dead and Indian counterpart of Hades. Hades may elect to keep people in his own realm until their greatly immoral deeds like murder have been atoned for. He may teach certain people secret knowledge, which will be a blessing in their coming birth, and incline them to seek spirituality. He may also send them on, doing none of these things.

After that, consciousness takes another birth in either this realm, or a demon realm. Only really terrible karma brings about birth in a hell.

Buddhists are fortunate from the Mahayana perspective- because we have the Buddha's own merits working on our behalf. Taking refuge in the Triple Gem (three professions of faith in Buddhism) will cause Vairocana to mark the Buddhist with the Dharma Seal. Vairocana means Dharma Seal. As the Dharma Seal Buddha, he is an aspect of Amida. This will cause the Buddhist to have a more favorable birth, if they have been sincere and not hypocritical in practice.

I tried to put this into laymen's terms for all interested.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I don't consider reincarnation a non-starter. Heaven and Hell are just both THE AFTERLIFE, just different skins.


If rocks can record the fluctuations of the magnetic field, I don't see why the universe can't somehow store a record of us somewhere.

I think your second statement is true, but, hell is a sadistic concept. Why would God want to listen to the eternal agony? Oblivion is much more humane.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

True. We have still to know a lot about the universe. Basically, if it is eternal or arises from 'absolute nothing' (ex-nihilo). But NDEs are not questionable. They are a fact of life. At a time when all other functions of the body have ceased and only thinking/imagination remain. That is the last game that brain/mind plays.

Fact of life, yes. But figments of our imagination are also facts of life. Currently, there are three scientific limits to our knowledge: "before" the Big Band, how far the "edge" of the universe is beyond the point where the expansion of space goes superluminal, and what's "through" the limits to the divisibility of space-time, i.e. Planck-length, and Planck-time (which are very specific values).

 

[Faithofchristian]

What I am talking about is eternal suffering. yes people will be thrown in a symbolic lake of fire to be completely destroyed not eternal suffering

The lake of fire, isn't symbolic, it's more real than anything. If you understand things about a lakes.
Think of a lake, how the water moves across, some waves get pertty big not to big, as these waves moves across the lake, So does the lake of fire moves across the land in like manner, destroying anything and everything that has sin and evil in it's path.
But what is this lake of fire ?
In the book of Hebrews 12:29 tells us that God is a consuming fire.

The fire that comes from God will be like a huge Lake of fire moving across the earth and the heavens above. That there shall be no escape.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Well, that IS the orthodox system of belief. Along with the idea of trinity. There is no law of sacrifice. And you need to reread Hebrews if you cannot see the priests involvement.

Just some of the verses in Hebrews:

For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:

And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

And having an high priest over the house of God;

For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.


Christ isn't a priest. Nor should high priests compare themselves to him. Every Gospel and Pauls letters have the enemy of their teachings as the "high priest(s)". The veil was a door for high priests. Jesus destroyed it, and priests were no longer needed.

Priests concocted the Bible books. Surely, Hebrews was written by a priest or for the priests.

Hebrews has no gospel message that I would follow, though it may "appear" to sound right.

Nope, the book of Hebrews was written to the Hebrews, to help them understand the things that pertain to Christ.

All throughout the book of Hebrews talks about the Sacrifices which were offered year by year.

It's evident that you have no understanding, that when God gives things, such as animal Sacrifices it becomes law.
Especially the Sacrifice of lambs, which is example of how Christ would be sacrifice on the cross.

Do you have any idea what the book of the law of Moses contains?
Within the book of the law, you find exactly how the sacrifices are to be done in accordance to the book of the law.
Which the sacrifices are law.
That's why the animal sacrifices are in the book of the law, to establish they are a set law, as how they are to be done.

The book of Hebrews was given to the Hebrews to show, that the Priesthood is no longer, for where there was a change in the law, This being that animal sacrifices are no longer to be done.
That Christ fulfilled all the animal sacrifices.
So since there was a change in the law, there also needs be a change in the Priesthood, That now Christ Jesus becomes the High Priest of God's.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Actually those who live in the 1st Century are dead. We live in 21st Century and are kicking alive.

Those who lived in the 1st Century and there after, their bodies of flesh and blood are dead, But their spirit is alive, and waiting in the Great Gulf fixed to be judge.at the Judgement seat of God's.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I must apologise, it seems a certain little monkey was standing on the shift key. Shouting is very rude, and not something I normally do or ever need to do. THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN AGAIN. Half-rations for you, little imp!

PS. Still didn't answer my question as to when you started believing or how this occurred.

When did I start believing, I don't see if there was ever a time that I didn't believe.

Form the day when I was able to talk, I ask one question, but seemed that no adult could give me the answer to.
I would ask, anyone, Why are we here.

Have you, yourself ever ask or wondered why are you here. for what reason are you here ?
Now let me ask you, Why are we here ?

 

[Faithofchristian]

I just knew you'd spin this. Does that mean God hates atheists, or don't love them as you said? Was there a time you didn't know or believe in God? People are given all the time they have alive to accept Christ teachings. Is that when God starts loving them? Does he hate Muslims? Buddhists? How about Jews that don't accept Christ Jesus?

Quit painting yourself into a corner. I'm trying to be patient. The Gospel wasn't spoken to the Jews. It was spoken to mankind. Every word Jesus spoke was from the Father to all men.

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.- Matthew

You ask, does God hate atheists.

Let's see, if someone came cursing and slandering and denying you, would you love them ?
Let's say, your out and someone came up to you and cursing you and putting their fist in your face, you would throw your arms around them loving them, all the while their beating you with their fist and cursing you ?

And you ask, does God hate Atheists ?

What's up with all that Go Figure ?

 

[Faithofchristian]

Yeah, I have heard of a jealous God, so jealous that he is near mad and will be "visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me."I think Mormons have solved the problem. They can make even a dead person Christian. When there is a lot of garbage on the computer we send it to cleaners. Why do you think the universe will keep a useless record?

Did you even bother to read, what you posted ?
Had you, You would haved seen, that God hates those who hate him.
Have you ever tried to love someone, who hates you, try it sometime and see what will happen?

So what you have here is, What goes around comes around.
Go Figure ?

 

[Aupmanyav]

A loving God would not punish even them. Proves, he is a mighty jealous God. We have the better ones who hate none.

But their spirit is alive, and waiting in the Great Gulf fixed to be judge at the Judgement seat of God's.

Ah! The Kingdom of God. He said it will come in the life-time of his disciples. It did not. And now it has been 2,100 years. A perpetual wait. Many people have got tired of the wait.

 

[`mud]

hey Aup,
Please edit that one will you ?

 

[Katzpur]

I think Mormons have solved the problem. They can make even a dead person Christian.

You think? Obviously, you believe Mormons have some kind of supernatural power that they don't even claim.

 

[Mock Turtle]

When did I start believing, I don't see if there was ever a time that I didn't believe.

Form the day when I was able to talk, I ask one question, but seemed that no adult could give me the answer to.
I would ask, anyone, Why are we here.

Have you, yourself ever ask or wondered why are you here. for what reason are you here ?
Now let me ask you, Why are we here ?

I indeed do ask myself that, but I can't find a sensible answer. I have made such a mess of my life - some very good parts too - that I have to wonder why? However, I have tracked most of my issues down to problems (and experiences) in childhood, and which appear to have been resolved after much heartache. I could hardly be in a better place than I am now, mentally and mostly physically, when all indications from earlier on would never have suggested this happening. Hence my reluctance to dismiss karma, although I probably don't deserve to be where I am currently given the amount of trouble and hurt I have probably caused in the past. But, that is gone, such that I just have to accept this. All I can do is aim to make the rest of my life as worthwhile for myself and others as possible. I've never found a need for any religious belief or any having any effect on my life. I would add however, that the few who have been less judgmental have been those with a strong Christian belief, which I can only applaud. I try to do the same but without such beliefs.

I can quite easily live with doubt - concerning all manner of things.

PS. I am sorry about earlier. I rarely do get angry now.

 

[Ponder This]

I just got to thinking, what exactly happens to us after we die? I don't mean our bodies. What I mean is, what happens to our "soul" after we die? Do you think it goes to Heaven or Hell? Do you think it gets reincarnated until we achieve Nirvana? Or do you think nothing happens? Or something else? Please put what you think below and possibly an explanation if you feel motivated enough to do so. Thank you!

When the flute ceases to play, they will ask, "Where did the song go?"

It is playing still, for those who have ears to hear.