What Happens When You Die?

[godnotgod]

The difference is that we know the body exists, but there's no evidence whatsoever that any kind of spirit exists.

The body cannot exist without nutrients and liquids coming into it from the world external to it, and it must excrete by-products back into the external world. The body is completely reliant upon the atmosphere and a favorable temperature range to continue its life. The body cannot navigate the external world without sunlight, and without a cycle of day and night, it would soon wear out and expire without rest from its activities in the external world. So we can say that the body emerges from the universe in exactly the same way that an orange emerges from an orange tree. It cannot exist without the source which grows it. The body-form does not originally exist, nor does it exist after death. It is temporal, just as illusion is temporal.

So what is the body if it cannot exist without interdependence with the universe from which it emerges?

 

[godnotgod]

You can't technically return to somewhere you never were. Yet, there you are...

It would have been more accurate to say that he awakens to where he always is. Being asleep, his dream tells him there is birth and death; that a self exists that dies and goes somewhere. Spiritual awakening is the realization that there is no such self that is born; that dies. That one is always here, now, unborn and deathless.

 

[godnotgod]

How can you define "Universal Mind" without reason?

Do you suppose that the universe came into being via Reason? That it was 'thought' into reality?

Do the findings of Quantum Mechanics obey the laws of Reason and Logic?

Such a universe would be what is known as an artifact; a created 'thing'.

Is the universe an artifact, or something intelligent and alive?

You, an intelligent being, did not come into the world; you came out of it. Do you suppose yourself to be an artifact, or are you an intelligent consciousness, and if so, do you allow the universe, which is the source of your existence, intelligence as well?

 

[Willamena]

It would have been more accurate to say that he awakens to where he always is. Being asleep, his dream tells him there is birth and death; that a self exists that dies and goes somewhere. Spiritual awakening is the realization that there is no such self that is born; that dies. That one is always here, now, unborn and deathless.

Then what happens when he awakens from that?

 

[atanu]

--- How can you define "Universal Mind" without reason? ---?

--
--- Do you suppose yourself to be an artifact, or are you an intelligent consciousness, and if so, do you allow the universe, which is the source of your existence, intelligence as well?

Universe is able to follow man made laws accurately without mistake because it is a massive non-intelligent computer, created by REASON of humans. REASON of humans, OTOH, is a gift from this huge non-intelligent computer.

That is how it is supposed to go.

:sarcastic

In serious vein. If man's reasoning was dependent on an intelligence derived deterministically from non-intelligent substance/entity , then no learning could ever take place. It would be driven entirely by pre-determined laws that the deterministically derived intelligence of humans would never be able to unravel.

(Well But. Actually that seems to be the case, as in reality so-called human intelligence mostly attributes solidity-inertness to itself and denies intelligence of its own source).

 

[godnotgod]

Then what happens when he awakens from that?

Then you live in the Awakened State, fulfilled in the experience of pure Absolute Joy, your natural state, rather than the dream-state (ie; 'Identification'; 'Waking Sleep') which oscillates between relative joy and relative suffering.

 

[godnotgod]

Universe is able to follow man made laws accurately without mistake because it is a massive non-intelligent computer, created by REASON of humans. REASON of humans, OTOH, is a gift from this huge non-intelligent computer.

That is how it is supposed to go.

:sarcastic

In serious vein. If man's reasoning was dependent on an intelligence derived deterministically from non-intelligent substance/entity , then no learning could ever take place. It would be driven entirely by pre-determined laws that the deterministically derived intelligence of humans would never be able to unravel.

(Well But. Actually that seems to be the case, as in reality so-called human intelligence mostly attributes solidity-inertness to itself and denies intelligence of its own source).

Excellent! Luckily, the grain of sand irritates the oyster to create the Pearl.

 

[Thief]

Fair enough.

Personally, I don't view death as a failure, though. It's a part of recycling elements through the greater ecosystem to allow new life forms to emerge. Our elements are only on loan from nature and we are only one expression of life. I also don't discern "spirit" as something separate from body. I am open to changing my mind, but further investigation always seems to reinforce my doubts.

If I may inquire further: What is it, specifically, that you believe goes on after death? What does the "spirit" mean to you? How can it survive without the body? Is it even desirable to survive without it?

I believe Man was created as a means to form unique perspectives and spirit.

Suppose there is a God.....a Creator....Someone had to be First.

Then any expression of Voice renders nothing but an Echo.

Finding Yourself as First....any subdivision might be Your reflection....
But you would be talking to yourself.

It's not easy being First....or last.

In the meantime...we become something of spirit.
And after the clay dries up and fails.....
We get to share our thoughts and feelings.....on a much larger scale.

I think it could be fascinating to no end....literally.

 

[atanu]

---Suppose there is a God.....a Creator....Someone had to be First.---

Does the term 'without beginning' strike an echo?

 

[Straw Dog]

I believe Man was created as a means to form unique perspectives and spirit.

Suppose there is a God.....a Creator....Someone had to be First.

Then any expression of Voice renders nothing but an Echo.

Finding Yourself as First....any subdivision might be Your reflection....
But you would be talking to yourself.

It's not easy being First....or last.

In the meantime...we become something of spirit.
And after the clay dries up and fails.....
We get to share our thoughts and feelings.....on a much larger scale.

I think it could be fascinating to no end....literally.

Sounds neat. I can't make heads or tails of theology so it's difficult for me to understand the reasoning that would lead to such a view however.

 

[InsurgoInsurgiInsurrect]

"I" is subtle. Body is gross. The "I", as per scripture and as per my understanding and experience, does not arise from body but is conditioned by contact with the body. When the contact is known to be pain, why should one cling? Let the association last as long as the momentum takes it. But the awareness of "I" is distinct from the inert body.

Every good lie is wrapped in truth. This is what thief is doing. Your body is your meat self. If we chop off some meat your "I" still carries on. "I" does indeed seem to be distinct from the body...

Why is that? Do you think you could figure that out by reading some ancient mythical tales written 2000 years ago or by attending college to figure out how the brain works. This guy is literally typing responses on a computer and not on stone tablets in hebrew and waiting for them to be translated and eventually added to the bible because he knows his words don't compete. He or she wants their voice and their opinion heard but they are just parroting... they don't understand the core concepts... Why "I" is "I" and what causes that happen. Mere proselytizing and sadly its usually because they are trying to justify their own beliefs to themselves and it has nothing to do with other people no matter what they tell themselves.

I could be wrong and maybe Tonacatecuhtli will show him the light. (Or Poseidon? I'm on a boat was a pretty cool video) Forgive him though. He was conditioned to be like this. He doesn't seem to know any other way and life is short and he is really not hurting anyone. Just smile and say ok... carry on. (Its probably what you would do in real life... not sure why people don't act the same way online...) I would probably just block him but maybe he would say something important like if your are at the movies and you know some dude is straight up crazy and in the middle of the move yells GRENADE RUN.... I am probably going to run... I know he is crazy but he is most likely not completely gone... They still live in the real world despite their online personas.

Who knows? Maybe the "I" you knew and developed throughout your life existed forever and everyone's "I" will exist forever. Happy thoughts are fun thoughts and some of us have been through enough that we need those happy thoughts so lets not rain on their parade.

 

[Thief]

Does the term 'without beginning' strike an echo?

And does 'singularity' or 'in the beginning' sound familiar?

 

[atanu]

And does 'singularity' or 'in the beginning' sound familiar?

And do you mean to say that the singularity is destroyed upon beginning of 'in the beginning'.

There is your problem -- all dualists suffer from this wrong notion.

Does a movie story change the screen on which it is playing out?

Now, I earnestly wish that you will stop your posting for at least 5 minutes, in order to ponder.:yes:

 

[atanu]

And does 'singularity' or 'in the beginning' sound familiar?

And do you mean to say that the singularity is destroyed upon beginning of 'in the beginning'.

There is your problem -- most dualists suffer from this wrong notion.

Does a movie story change the screen on which it is playing out?

Now, I earnestly wish that you will stop your posting for at least 5 minutes, in order to ponder.:yes:

 

[Thief]

And do you mean to say that the singularity is destroyed upon beginning of 'in the beginning'.

There is your problem -- most dualists suffer from this wrong notion.

Does a movie story change the screen on which it is playing out?

Now, I earnestly wish that you will stop your posting for at least 5 minutes, in order to ponder.:yes:

Incorrect assumption on your part.
The act of creation from the point of singularity makes good sense.
Ask any scientist.

The act of creation did however destroy 'something'.....the Void.

Prior to the moment there was.... no moment.
There was nothing.
No heat, no cold, no light, no shadow, no Voice, no Echo.

The Void was perfection.
Altogether unique and solitary.
Altogether uniform.
Perfect.

The pronouncement of Light.....is an aberration.

 

[atanu]

Incorrect assumption on your part.

Baseless assertion on your part.

The act of creation from the point of singularity makes good sense.
Ask any scientist.
The act of creation did however destroy 'something'.....the Void.
Prior to the moment there was.... no moment.
There was nothing.
No heat, no cold, no light, no shadow, no Voice, no Echo.
The Void was perfection.
Altogether unique and solitary.
Altogether uniform.
Perfect.
The pronouncement of Light.....is an aberration.

Void to Universe. Why? Where does the will or God come from? Is God external to the void and the created universe?

Neither you know nor the scientist knows. Scientist says that the process is unknown. You however hide your ignorance with vague verses.

If the void is destroyed then there is no way to return home.

Everynight, by putting the mind to sleep we return to the void but we know not. What you call void is FULL. It is the abode.

 

[Thief]

Baseless assertion on your part.



Void to Universe. Why? Where does the will or God come from? Is God external to the void and the created universe?

Neither you know nor the scientist knows. Scientist says that the process is unknown. You however hide your ignorance with vague verses.

If the void is destroyed then there is no way to return home.

Everynight, by putting the mind to sleep we return to the void but we know not. What you call void is FULL. It is the abode.

So you know....and the I and the scientists don't.
How intellectual of you.

If you call the Void....'home'...you've not much to look forward to.

As if you favor 'nothing'....over the creation God has made.

 

[atanu]

So you know....and the I and the scientists don't.
How intellectual of you.

If you call the Void....'home'...you've not much to look forward to.

As if you favor 'nothing'....over the creation God has made.

Yes. At least you do not know. That is why you are taking refuge in science now.

:yes:

 

[Thief]

Yes. At least you do not know. That is why you are taking refuge in science now.

:yes:

Wordplay on your part.
I didn't actually say I don't know.....you did.

Refuge in science?
Or refusal of science.....on your part?

 

[atanu]

Wordplay on your part.
I didn't actually say I don't know.....you did.

Refuge in science?
Or refusal of science.....on your part?

Of course not. Science does not go there.

I am surprised that suddenly you have become a scientific man.