What Happens When You Die?

[godnotgod]

Please define 'universal consciousness'

That which simply is, without being defined by the mind.

 

[religion99]

That which simply is, without being defined by the mind.

Why it is called "Universal"?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Don't be bothered by any of this. No one knows everything, and those who pretend love to condescend to others. You have nothing to be sorry for. Please stay.

Good advice right there.

 

[religion99]

That which simply is, without being defined by the mind.

You believe in "Universal Consciousness". I believe in "Pure Consciousness" . So we both agree on the the word "Consciousness" and its definition, but differ if it is "Pure" or "Universal. Hence , I asked you to define "Universal".

 

[godnotgod]

Just curious. Do you believe in reincarnation of any sort?

That really is a tough question, though I do respect the existing evidence for it. So a this point, I can only say: 'I neither believe nor not-believe'. However, I am looking at the question from the point of view of an existent self. There must be an individual self in order for it to become reincarnated. However, if the self is illusory, then what is there that can reincarnate? The individual self is also known as Identification involved in the action of karma, which creates reincarnation. As I understand it in Buddhistic terms, this is called The Wheel; the never-ending cycle of births and deaths. So the problem for a Buddhist, once he sees this, is how to get off of The Wheel and attain liberation. That, according to Buddhism, is always possible in the here and now.

Having said that, I do respect the Law of Karma. But again, if there is no 'doer', then how can karma be created?

 

[godnotgod]

Why it is called "Universal"?

Because it permeates Everything as compared to individual consciousness, which is local consciousness.

 

[Thief]

You have one body, but within that one body there are many, many events occurring via several systems and organs. None of these events are possible without the other events also occurring. None are separate from the one body.

Just as no two snowflakes are alike, so it is with all of the other myriad forms of the phenomenal world. However, all snowflakes are made of one substance, water. Though we are seemingly unique one from the other, we are all still universally human in character. We all possess universal consciousness, though it is sculpted into different identities. See beyond the temporal identity, and you and I will see the exact same Reality. Why should it be any different?

'The saltiness of the sea is the same everywhere'

Comparing the spirit of Man to a flake....is flaky.

There is no point to form so many souls only to lose every one of them.

You might have the frame of mind to continue after the last breath.
but there's no 'point' to say you know better.
I don't think you do.

 

[godnotgod]

You believe in "Universal Consciousness". I believe in "Pure Consciousness" . So we both agree on the the word "Consciousness" and its definition, but differ if it is "Pure" or "Universal. Hence , I asked you to define "Universal".

I see. By default, universal consciousness is pure. They are one and the same.

 

[religion99]

That really is a tough question, though I do respect the existing evidence for it. So a this point, I can only say: 'I neither believe nor not-believe'. However, I am looking at the question from the point of view of an existent self. There must be an individual self in order for it to become reincarnated. However, if the self is illusory, then what is there that can reincarnate? The individual self is also known as Identification involved in the action of karma, which creates reincarnation. As I understand it in Buddhistic terms, this is called The Wheel; the never-ending cycle of births and deaths. So the problem for a Buddhist, once he sees this, is how to get off of The Wheel and attain liberation. That, according to Buddhism, is always possible in the here and now.

Having said that, I do respect the Law of Karma. But again, if there is no 'doer', then how can karma be created?

Now , this is getting very very interesting. How do you deduct that there is no 'doer' from the first paragraph?

 

[religion99]

I see. By default, universal consciousness is pure. They are one and the same.

"Universal Consciousness" being Pure doesn't imply that "Pure Consciousness" is Universal. Think about it.

 

[godnotgod]

Comparing the spirit of Man to a flake....is flaky.

A metaphor is not saying that what is being compared are the same.

There is no point to form so many souls only to lose every one of them.

Nothing is ever lost. You are being fooled by the illusion of death that this is so.

You might have the frame of mind to continue after the last breath.
but there's no 'point' to say you know better.
I don't think you do.

My concern is not what happens after death, but what is occurring right here, right now. That is the only reality. The rest is imagination, belief, conjecture. Again, referring to Chopra, we return to where we always are, and that is none other the this eternal Present Moment. To think in terms of 'another realm' is a substantial, delusive idea.

 

[godnotgod]

Now , this is getting very very interesting. How do you deduct that there is no 'doer' from the first paragraph?

Identification is fiction.

 

[godnotgod]

"Universal Consciousness" being Pure doesn't imply that "Pure Consciousness" is Universal. Think about it.

No, that is not what I am implying. I am only saying that the nature of universal consciousness is that it is pure, 'pure' meaning devoid of contamination via thought and the self-creation of mind, IOW, 'clear'.

 

[religion99]

You have one body, but within that one body there are many, many events occurring via several systems and organs. None of these events are possible without the other events also occurring. None are separate from the one body.

Just as no two snowflakes are alike, so it is with all of the other myriad forms of the phenomenal world. However, all snowflakes are made of one substance, water. Though we are seemingly unique one from the other, we are all still universally human in character. We all possess universal consciousness, though it is sculpted into different identities. See beyond the temporal identity, and you and I will see the exact same Reality. Why should it be any different?

'The saltiness of the sea is the same everywhere'

Just because you and I see the same reality doesn't make you and me same. Just because I and you are similar in nature doesn't make both of us same.

 

[religion99]

Identification is fiction.

Please elaborate. I am not as smart as you.

 

[godnotgod]

Just because you and I see the same reality doesn't make you and me same. Just because I and you are similar in nature doesn't make both of us same.

Do you think both of us are manifestations of the same Source?

If you and I see the same reality, there must be something within each of us that is also the same. If we see a different reality, then there exists something different within us. What is that difference? The mental filters through which we define Reality. Remove those mental filters, such as 'atheist' or 'Christian', for example, and we are left with universal consciousness, not personal consciousness.

 

[godnotgod]

Please elaborate. I am not as smart as you.

The First Level of Consciousness is Sleep without Dreams.

The Second Level of Consciousness is Sleep with Dreams.

The Third Level of Consciousness is Waking Sleep, otherwise known as 'Identification'. It is the conviction that this "I", this 'doer', as an ego acting upon the world, is a real entity. However, from the point of view of the Fourth Level of Consciousness, ie; 'Self-Transcendence', or 'Self-Remembering', this "I" of the Third Level is a fictional character moving and acting out a drama.

I am in no way claiming to be smarter or not-smarter than anyone else. 'Smart' has nothing to do with it. Awakening is the key.

 

[religion99]

Do you think both of us are manifestations of the same Source?

No , I don't think so. Just like water of Ganga and water of Volga are not of the same source , but still they are both water

If you and I see the same reality, there must be something within each of us that is also the same. If we see a different reality, then there exists something different within us. What is that difference? The mental filters through which we define Reality. Remove those mental filters, such as 'atheist' or 'Christian', for example, and we are left with universal consciousness, not personal consciousness.

If we remove impurity from water of Volga and Ganga , both of them will become pure. The procedure to remove impurity is the same and result is also the same. Still they are different water.

To sum it up , I believe Individual Consciousness is irreducible to Universal Consciousness.

 

[religion99]

No , I don't think so. [/color]Just like water of Ganga and water of Volga are not of the same source , but still they are both water


If we remove impurity from water of Volga and Ganga , both of them will become pure. The procedure to remove impurity is the same and result is also the same. Still they are different water.

To sum it up , I believe Individual Consciousness is irreducible to Universal Consciousness.

When you remove the impurities ie the filters , what we get is pure consciousness which is still personal, not universal consciousness.

 

[religion99]

So what you are saying is that Universal Consciousness is the actor, world is the actee(for the lack of actual word in English Vocabulary ) and Individual Consciousness is the agent of Universal Consciousness in this drama , right?