What has gold to do with religion?!

[paarsurrey]

[QUOTE="sayak83, post: 4791170, member: 37415"]Why would God worship himself! What a ridiculous question!
You do understand Krishna is the incarnation of God himself in Hinduism, not a mere person. Stated directly in Gita.[/QUOTE]
Please ask a Christian; why did Jesus pray to G-d? One may like to read the Gospels where Jesus prayed to G-d, right up-to and on the Cross itself. Please.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Why would God worship himself! What a ridiculous question!
You do understand Krishna is the incarnation of God himself in Hinduism, not a mere person. Stated directly in Gita.

It is phenomenon which one could understand if one would like to:

[8:18] So you (Muhammad) killed them not, but it was Allah Who killed them. And thou threwest not when thou didst throw, but it was Allah Who threw, that He might overthrow the disbelievers and that He might confer on the believers a great favour from Himself. Surely, Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=8&verse=17​

No compulsion to understand it, one may remain on one's faith, however. Please
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

@ parsurrey True. Now I have another question. Your signature says, love for all, hatred for none. Why do you seem to have a hate on for those of us who like gold? Not that it matters, but I like it so much, I've given some fairly substantial amounts to Hindu temples.

I don't hate anybody.One may amass a mountain of gold if one likes. Will it increase one's spiritual status in the eye of God? I don't think it will.
My friends here have not understood my point of view correctly. Please
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

But revealed to seers whose names are listed in the verses as well as in the appendices (see post 126). Which is what paarsurrey wanted.

Vinayaka does not agree with the point of view that Vedas are authored/written by the seers, if I have understood him correctly. You may however stick to your point of view if you like. It does not harm anybody. Please
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Which is one of the many reasons why Christian theology is such an irrational mess....
Nice ethics, poor theology.

It is phenomenon that some people don't understand correctly. Please read post #162 above.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

I'm a Saivite, and my main scriptures are the Vedas and Agamas, which are both unauthored. There are no definitions of yogi, as far as I know. I haven't read all of it, and both are way too long to remember much anyway.

This conversation is a classic example of how two people from opposing paradigms can't communicate, and that is the only reason I'm in this conversation: just to illustrate that.

Then how did they come to exist and come to reach you? Please
That would explain as to what you mean from the words "Vedas and Agamas, which are both unauthored". Please
Regards

 

[sayak83]

Vinayaka does not agree with the point of view that Vedas are authored/written by the seers, if I have understood him correctly. You may however stick to your point of view if you like. It does not harm anybody. Please
Regards

No he did not. An author "creates" the writing from his own thought. The Vedas were revealed to the seers by Brahman which they recited and thus transmitted to humanity. Its a bit like mathematics. Nobody composes mathematics, but the eternal mathematical truths are first revealed/uncovered by some mathematician or the other.

 

[sayak83]

It is phenomenon which one could understand if one would like to:

[8:18] So you (Muhammad) killed them not, but it was Allah Who killed them. And thou threwest not when thou didst throw, but it was Allah Who threw, that He might overthrow the disbelievers and that He might confer on the believers a great favour from Himself. Surely, Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=8&verse=17​

No compulsion to understand it, one may remain on one's faith, however. Please
Regards

Is this a threat from your God in your holy book that your God will kill all unbelievers and believers in false religion?

Because that's the only thing I could figure out.

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said: ↑
Vinayaka does not agree with the point of view that Vedas are authored/written by the seers, if I have understood him correctly. You may however stick to your point of view if you like. It does not harm anybody. Please
Regards

No he did not. An author "creates" the writing from his own thought. The Vedas were revealed to the seers by Brahman which they recited and thus transmitted to humanity. Its a bit like mathematics. Nobody composes mathematics, but the eternal mathematical truths are first revealed/uncovered by some mathematician or the other.

That is your "secular" point of view. Let us see as to what Vinayaka's viewpoint about it. It is a matter of his faith,belief. Please
I don't think there are any"eternal mathematical truths' as the secular point of view is that everything started from bigbang, so in that sense nothing is eterna. It is a creation by G-d under a system/process that humans think is eternal. Right? Please
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said: ↑
It is phenomenon which one could understand if one would like to:
[8:18] So you (Muhammad) killed them not, but it was Allah Who killed them. And thou threwest not when thou didst throw, but it was Allah Who threw, that He might overthrow the disbelievers and that He might confer on the believers a great favour from Himself. Surely, Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=8&verse=17
No compulsion to understand it, one may remain on one's faith, however. Please
Regards

Is this a threat from your God in your holy book that your God will kill all unbelievers and believers in false religion?
Because that's the only thing I could figure out.

I don't see there is any threat to unbelievers/disbelievers in general terms. Right? Please
Regards

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I think he listens. I don;t think he understands though. There is a language challenge, and a lens challenge. Most likely one that can't be overcome.

I'm inclined to disagree. I've seen some of paarsurrey's posts from years past while I've been wandering through either old abandoned threads or older parts of threads still or quite recently active. His arguments and counter arguments haven't changed. Whenever a Zoroastrian expresses an opinion on pretty much anything it's always "Please quote from Zoroaster in this regard". He still makes the same empty claim that Gautama Buddha taught the ultimate goal of our existence is oneness with Allah today that he was making three years ago - despite being told (undoubtedly) numerous times that this is not what Buddha taught and that if claims to Buddha's enlightenment are vacuous because Buddha's story wasn't written down until centuries after the fact, then so are paarsurrey's own claims about what Buddha taught.

I think if paarsurrey truly listened then he would understand things about other religions by now that he did not understand then and he'd be able to demonstrate that understanding. I get the impression that more often than not he just dismisses what people tell him because it doesn't fit with his Ahmadi indoctrination.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm inclined to disagree.

Yeah, you're probably right. I haven't engaged him before.

 

[Vinayaka]

paarsurrey said: ↑
Vinayaka does not agree with the point of view that Vedas are authored/written by the seers, if I have understood him correctly. You may however stick to your point of view if you like. It does not harm anybody. Please
Regards

That is your "secular" point of view. Let us see as to what Vinayaka's viewpoint about it. It is a matter of his faith,belief. Please
I don't think there are any"eternal mathematical truths' as the secular point of view is that everything started from bigbang, so in that sense nothing is eterna. It is a creation by G-d under a system/process that humans think is eternal. Right? Please
Regards

I agree with Sayak. The Vedas were scribed by somebody. That means they were recorded, obviously, but it's like finding them somewhere. In modern terms its called channeling.

 

[Vinayaka]

Please continue your search in the issue. Thanks
Regards

I linked that for you to read. Did you read it?

 

[Vinayaka]

I don't hate anybody.One may amass a mountain of gold if one likes. Will it increase one's spiritual status in the eye of God? I don't think it will.
My friends here have not understood my point of view correctly. Please
Regards

Then why are you going on about it? Just let it die, and stop letting it bother you. Why does someone else amassing gold mean so much to you? Be happy. Besides, it's institutions in this case, not individuals.

 

[paarsurrey]

No he did not. An author "creates" the writing from his own thought. The Vedas were revealed to the seers by Brahman which they recited and thus transmitted to humanity. Its a bit like mathematics. Nobody composes mathematics, but the eternal mathematical truths are first revealed/uncovered by some mathematician or the other.

Your understanding of the revelation and considering it like mathematical unfolding is faulty. Word Revealed from G-d or Brahman is a totally different phenomenon.
Regards

 

[sayak83]

paarsurrey said: ↑
It is phenomenon which one could understand if one would like to:
[8:18] So you (Muhammad) killed them not, but it was Allah Who killed them. And thou threwest not when thou didst throw, but it was Allah Who threw, that He might overthrow the disbelievers and that He might confer on the believers a great favour from Himself. Surely, Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=8&verse=17
No compulsion to understand it, one may remain on one's faith, however. Please
Regards

I don't see there is any threat to unbelievers/disbelievers in general terms. Right? Please
Regards

Well, you will have to explain what you think it means. You are mistaken to suppose that the verse and its meaning are crystal clear to everyone.

 

[sayak83]

Your understanding of the revelation and considering it like mathematical unfolding is faulty. Word Revealed from G-d or Brahman is a totally different phenomenon.
Regards

paarsurrey said: ↑
Vinayaka does not agree with the point of view that Vedas are authored/written by the seers, if I have understood him correctly. You may however stick to your point of view if you like. It does not harm anybody. Please
Regards

That is your "secular" point of view. Let us see as to what Vinayaka's viewpoint about it. It is a matter of his faith,belief. Please
I don't think there are any"eternal mathematical truths' as the secular point of view is that everything started from bigbang, so in that sense nothing is eterna. It is a creation by G-d under a system/process that humans think is eternal. Right? Please
Regards

Well he does (see below). Now you will disagree?

 

[sayak83]

Your understanding of the revelation and considering it like mathematical unfolding is faulty. Word Revealed from G-d or Brahman is a totally different phenomenon.
Regards

Look! you disagreed! Yay!
The technical terminology for the Vedic literature is "Sruti"...that which has been "heard" directly from the fount of Existence by the rishis through their perfected senses. I do believe that Greek view of mathematics seems to approach this kind of revelatory understanding (Platonism) and hence used the analogy in an effort to explain things better. You can disagree, as I knew you will. Regards.

 

[paarsurrey]

Look! you disagreed! Yay!
The technical terminology for the Vedic literature is "Sruti"...that which has been "heard" directly from the fount of Existence by the rishis through their perfected senses. I do believe that Greek view of mathematics seems to approach this kind of revelatory understanding (Platonism) and hence used the analogy in an effort to explain things better. You can disagree, as I knew you will. Regards.

Kindly quote from G-d/Brahman to support your understanding of Word of Revelation.
Anybody, please
Regards