What if we accepted each others Religion?

[CG Didymus]

If you mean Islam, then say Islam.

I doubt very much that LH's "harsh" environment excuse is why those religions had harsh laws. There were plenty of cities and prisons. And I doubt if there is an "official" Baha'i statement that supports it.

 

[CG Didymus]

I meant both the Jews and Islam had harsh laws as they had to maintain law and order in a desert environment.

Which ancient people that lived in nice places didn't have "harsh" laws? And what do call a "nice" way of killing law-breakers? Stoning isn't as bad as what some other people used to do.... burning at the stake, skinning them alive etc.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

With all due respect, the spiritual cure has been offered in all the older religions, especially Christianity.
Christians have been instructed not love the world and not to lay up their treasures on earth.

John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.​

​

Matthew 6:19-21 Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.​

Baha'u'llah reiterated those teachings, but that is not what Baha'is are teaching to Baha'is in their communities or people they invite to participate in their activities. They are teaching the oneness of humanity, oneness of religion, and offering people new social teachings such as elimination of prejudice. Nobody is talking about materialism. Baha'is are working to build a new world order, but there will never be a new world order unless people stop living for the material world and all it has to offer.

That is not even to mention denying our selfish desires. Jesus told us to deny self, and Baha'u'llah reiterated that, and until that starts happening nothing in this world is going to change.

Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?​

​

“Say: Deliver your souls, O people, from the bondage of self, and purify them from all attachment to anything besides Me. Remembrance of Me cleanseth all things from defilement, could ye but perceive it. Say: Were all created things to be entirely divested of the veil of worldly vanity and desire, the Hand of God would in this Day clothe them, one and all, with the robe “He doeth whatsoever He willeth in the kingdom of creation,” that thereby the sign of His sovereignty might be manifested in all things. Exalted then be He, the Sovereign Lord of all, the Almighty, the Supreme Protector, the All-Glorious, the Most Powerful.”​

Gleanings, pp. 294-295​

I believe the words of Baha'u'llah have power to create a new human.
I say that, through my own experience.

So, only through reading and discussing the Bahai Writings together, that alone can gradually transform each person to another person.
Hence we have for example Ruhi Books, that we invite the community to read and discuss together.
@JustGeorge this^ is an example I was thinking.

 

[Trailblazer]

How can that be so when Bahai writings quoted to me clearly say that all previous religious dispensations has been abrogated. If that is the case how can these older dispensations and religious paths thereof be equally efficacious?

Yes

I disagree because I do not think that older dispensations and religious paths thereof are equally efficacious.
If those older dispensations and religious paths were equally efficacious, why did God send Baha'u'llah?

I am not saying that you do not believe that they are equally efficacious, but it might sound to other people that you are just trying to gloss over the differences between the Baha'i Faith and other religions, differences that practically everyone on this forum are aware of.

I have never been one to gloss things over, I am a straight shooter. If people don't like what I say that is not my problem. I am not here to please people. I only wish to do what God wants me to do, according to what Baha'u'llah wrote.

In the following passages 'His Manifestation' refers to Baha'u'llah.
'Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation' refers to Baha'u'llah, who is the Day Spring of God's Revelation to mankind.

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination. Thou dost witness how most of the commentaries and interpretations of the words of God, now current amongst men, are devoid of truth.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 171

“Our purpose is to show that should the loved ones of God sanctify their hearts and their ears from the vain sayings that were uttered aforetime, and turn with their inmost souls to Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation, and to whatsoever things He hath manifested, such behavior would be regarded as highly meritorious in the sight of God…..”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 172

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe the words of Baha'u'llah have power to create a new human.
I say that, through my own experience.

I also believe His words have that power, since I was so transformed, but not everyone relates to His words the same way.
Some atheists I post them to say they sound like nothing more than a mere human and Christians think they are the words of a false prophet or even the devil!

So, only through reading and discussing the Bahai Writings together, that alone can gradually transform each person to another person.
Hence we have for example Ruhi Books, that we invite the community to read and discuss together.
@JustGeorge this^ is an example I was thinking.

That is very optimistic and I don't know who besides Baha'is is attending these Ruhi classes. That certainly is hardly ever happening in my community.
I think this is very slow way of trying to teach the Faith, like taking a horse and buggy to cross the United States when one could take an airplane!

 

[Trailblazer]

That is what you are claiming. That each manifestation corrected the previous religions.

No, each manifestation did not correct the previous religions.
It was really only Baha'u'llah who corrected the previous religions, and He only corrected the Abrahamic religions.
I cannot speak about what Muhammad did since I am not very familiar with the Qur'an.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I also believe His words have that power, since I was so transformed, but not everyone relates to His words the same way.
Some atheists I post them to say they sound like nothing more than a mere human and Christians think they are the words of a false prophet or even the devil!

That is very optimistic and I don't know who besides Baha'is is attending these Ruhi classes. That certainly is hardly ever happening in my community.
I think this is very slow way of trying to teach the Faith, like taking a horse and buggy to cross the United States when one could take an airplane!

Well, I know in our community, many non-Bahais were attending.

 

[JustGeorge]

I believe the words of Baha'u'llah have power to create a new human.
I say that, through my own experience.

So, only through reading and discussing the Bahai Writings together, that alone can gradually transform each person to another person.
Hence we have for example Ruhi Books, that we invite the community to read and discuss together.
@JustGeorge this^ is an example I was thinking.

You're suggesting people getting together to discuss Baha'i writings together will bring unity? I want to make sure I understand what you're saying.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, I know in our community, many non-Bahais were attending.

That sounds good. All communities are different. Most of the active Baha'is in my community are well over 70, so there are not many in-person activities going on. Most meetings are on Zoom.

 

[CG Didymus]

We believe in all the religions their Founders and scriptures but we don’t expect anyone else to. If others come to an opposite conclusion then I am happy for them and I respect their right to hold a different view.

In "all" the religions? Are you sure? And their "founders" and "Scriptures"? Isn't there a Baha'i quote that says that even the Bible in not "wholly" authentic?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You're suggesting people getting together to discuss Baha'i writings together will bring unity? I want to make sure I understand what you're saying.

It will bring more spirituality and ethics to people.

 

[JustGeorge]

It will bring more spirituality and ethics to people.

Honestly, I find that hurtful.

Unless it was encouraged that all people bring their own inspirational stories(religious or not, atheists need to be included in this 'unity'), this seems exclusionary.

I'd be keen on hearing your stories, but only if you were happy to hear mine. And the stories of the guy next to me. And the woman standing next to him. Otherwise, just talking about Baha'i stories doesn't seem like its promoting unity. That seems exclusionary.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I disagree because I do not think that older dispensations and religious paths thereof are equally efficacious.
If those older dispensations and religious paths were equally efficacious, why did God send Baha'u'llah?

I am not saying that you do not believe that they are equally efficacious, but it might sound to other people that you are just trying to gloss over the differences between the Baha'i Faith and other religions, differences that practically everyone on this forum are aware of.

I have never been one to gloss things over, I am a straight shooter. If people don't like what I say that is not my problem. I am not here to please people. I only wish to do what God wants me to do, according to what Baha'u'llah wrote.

In the following passages 'His Manifestation' refers to Baha'u'llah.
'Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation' refers to Baha'u'llah, who is the Day Spring of God's Revelation to mankind.

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination. Thou dost witness how most of the commentaries and interpretations of the words of God, now current amongst men, are devoid of truth.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 171

“Our purpose is to show that should the loved ones of God sanctify their hearts and their ears from the vain sayings that were uttered aforetime, and turn with their inmost souls to Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation, and to whatsoever things He hath manifested, such behavior would be regarded as highly meritorious in the sight of God…..”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 172

There are certain things we will get from any genuine religion and some important unique things we will get from the Baha'i Faith.

In regards personal and community development, most faiths will do that. The main problem is when adherents feel obligated to follow their faith in its entirely including outdated laws and social teachings. That can lead to religious fanaticism and fundamentalism which isn't good. There's major reform movements within Judaism and Christianity. Islam looks a little stuck but I'm sure there's reform happening.

The Baha'i Faith emerged with the specific purpose of addressing the unique challenges of the current age characterised by globalization, a revolution in science and technology, international cooperation and working across nationality, ethnicity, religion and gender. The Baha'i sacred texts address unique exigencies of the current age. The Vedas, Quran and Gospel does not.

That said, while Baha'u'llah counselled us to "Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and centre your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements" and "We can well perceive how the whole human race is encompassed with great, with incalculable afflictions, We see it languishing on its bed of sickness, sore-tried and disillusioned." its the non-Baha'is engaging with what Shoghi Effendi calls the Greater Plan of God. The Baha'is execute the lesser plan...

8 December 1967 – [To an individual] | Bahá’í Reference Library

Regarding a number of questions related to politics

www.bahai.org

So in regards efficacy of religion, the question is efficacy to do what? Look up the purpose of religion from a Baha'i perspective and there won't be too much in there that other religions can't do.

The Purpose of Religion | Revelation | God and His Creation | What Bahá’ís Believe

The website of the worldwide Bahá’í community

www.bahai.org

Religion is one after all.

As Baha'is we have the distinct purpose of executing the lesser plan of God. I don't believe that is what Sayak had in mind when he referred to efficacy.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Honestly, I find that hurtful.

Unless it was encouraged that all people bring their own inspirational stories(religious or not, atheists need to be included in this 'unity'), this seems exclusionary.

I'd be keen on hearing your stories, but only if you were happy to hear mine. And the stories of the guy next to me. And the woman standing next to him. Otherwise, just talking about Baha'i stories doesn't seem like its promoting unity. That seems exclusionary.

That would be an interfaith gathering which is also a good idea.

 

[JustGeorge]

That would be an interfaith gathering which is also a good idea.

An interfaith gathering appeals to me, but doesn't appeal to all.

 

[Dawnofhope]

No, each manifestation did not correct the previous religions.
It was really only Baha'u'llah who corrected the previous religions, and He only corrected the Abrahamic religions.
I cannot speak about what Muhammad did since I am not very familiar with the Qur'an.

There are some clear examples in the Gospel of Jesus admonishing and correcting Judaism. Likewise Muhammad as recorded in the Quran was critical about aspects both Christianity and Judaism.

 

[Dawnofhope]

An interfaith gathering appeals to me, but doesn't appeal to all.

You seem to have become very much part of the religious forum scene. What is it about this forum that keeps you coming back if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Trailblazer]

There are certain things we will get from any genuine religion and some important unique things we will get from the Baha'i Faith.

One important thing we get from the Baha'i Faith is that Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ and the Promised One of all the religions.
This is not small thing, this is a BIG thing.
Missing how big this is us like missing the broad side of a barn, as my late husband used to say.

 

[sayak83]

Calling a religion exclusivist is nothing more than name-calling, a way to try to knock the religion down.
I do differ in my opinion, for reasons I already explained, and also for logical reasons, which I will explain below..

I don't think it makes any logical sense to follow the older religions, since they were not revealed for modern-day society. Whereas their spiritual teachings of those religions are still valid and always will be, religion is about more than spiritual teachings. Religion should also have practical value, in order to be useful for living in the world, as well as teachings and laws from God that pertain to the modern age. Moreover, the message of a religion should address the 'needs of humanity' for the present age, which are not the same as what humanity needed 2000 or 5000 years ago.

“No man, however acute his perception, can ever hope to reach the heights which the wisdom and understanding of the Divine Physician have attained. Little wonder, then, if the treatment prescribed by the physician in this day should not be found to be identical with that which he prescribed before. How could it be otherwise when the ills affecting the sufferer necessitate at every stage of his sickness a special remedy?”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 80

“And now concerning thy question regarding the nature of religion. Know thou that they who are truly wise have likened the world unto the human temple. As the body of man needeth a garment to clothe it, so the body of mankind must needs be adorned with the mantle of justice and wisdom. Its robe is the Revelation vouchsafed unto it by God. Whenever this robe hath fulfilled its purpose, the Almighty will assuredly renew it. For every age requireth a fresh measure of the light of God. Every Divine Revelation hath been sent down in a manner that befitted the circumstances of the age in which it hath appeared.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 81

I have never used the word exclusivism in a demeaning manner. Most worldviews are exclusive (like atheism as a clear cut example). Science is exclusive...you have a reigning theory that gets overturned if a better theory with better predictive power comes along. For example General Relativity displaced Newtonian Gravity while keeping most of its results intact but reformulating and extending it dramatically. We never say that scientific theories are pluralistic or inclusive. We say that they are progressive and exclusive. So I do not see anything wrong with a exclusivist worldview or religion per se. Since I am seeing the same template being followed by the Bahai, I am calling it that.

 

[Dawnofhope]

One important thing we get from the Baha'i Faith is that Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ and the Promised One of all the religions.
This is not small thing, this is a BIG thing.
Missing how big this is us like missing the broad side of a barn, as my late husband used to say.

How does Baha'i beliefs about Baha'u'llah, assist build unity and amongst those who are not Baha'is?

Is the spiritual path offered by one Manifestation of God more efficacious than that offered by another?