How so? Does the group go out after and feed the homeless? Do they pool some money and give it to charity? Besides sitting around discussing Baha'i stuff, what are some examples of what people do, both as a group, and individually?
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What if we accepted each others Religion?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
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It doesn't appeal to me any more, partly because of unproductive events I've seen. The speakers often talk right by each other, just as on here. I do think it's important to show up, though. Just not me. I don't have the patience to do things I view as unproductive.
I'm an extrovert stuck in an introvert's life, and this is my community.
One and awhile, I even get to talk about my favorite topic: religion!
I tried to get in on one here, but it seemed it was more Abrahamic interfaith. It wasn't that those outside of that view weren't accepted; its that there was a disconnect, and it was easier for folks to ignore than ask.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
You can give fish to the poor, or you can teach them how to fish.
Bahai Faith focuses more on the latter.
It's tough in real life too. Many of the same challenges, as words like 'God' can go right by. In terms of dharmic and Abrahamic interchanges, the two paradigms are far apart. My Guru sat in on an interfaith panel for awhile, but the moderation was poor and unbalanced. Certain people liked to hog the time.
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So nothing at all specific, just more vague generalities.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
I think you would need to experience it yourself, and see.
So you got nothing. Thanks. I've looked at 'activities' on local Baha'i sites, and it's always just feasts, Baha'i classes, ruhi, etc. I figured an insider might tell me about something. But you've now lowered my expectations even more. Not a problem.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Imo, that is what Baha'is should say about the Baha'i Faith, rather than trying to pretend it is all-inclusive. It's really not.
That could mean a lot of things....like
"I'm stuck at home with the children"
or
"I have work that bores me witless"
How are the children btw?
I'm probably the opposite, an introvert stuck in an extrovert's life. My work is very social and sometimes I'd rather not have to deal with people and all their problems.
I'd be interested to hear about your version of Hinduism....not because I want to pretend to listen so I can tell you about the Baha'i Faith.
About 25% of our patient base is from India or Sri Lanka, mostly Hindu. I took over a practice from a Hindu doctor who was nearly 80 and no one wanted to but his practice. I employ anther Hindu doctor who nobody wanted to employ to look after the patient group. Its been great.
I'm part of our local interfaith group which is largely a Christian affair. The Hindus are more likely to do the cities multicultural group, but do drop by from time to time.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
So we should omit an important truth about Baha'u'llah just to build unity?
I consider that dishonest and I'll have no part of it. I am not saying we should blurt it out right away, but I don't think we should cover it up just to build unity. What good is unity that is built in dishonesty? Baha'u'llah certainly did not conceal His station when He addressed the kings and rulers and religious leaders. Why should the Baha'is conceal it, because they are afraid of what people will think or do?
Besides, eventually they will find out what we believe about Baha'u'llah being the return of Christ and the Promised One of all the religions.
Then what will happen?
That is a loaded question, and it is irrelevant to what Baha'u'llah wrote, which is either true or false.
Do you think the following passages only apply to the Baha'is? Are we the only loved ones of God? Are we the only servants of God?
“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal.” Gleanings, p. 171
“The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Dayspring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good; and whoso is deprived thereof hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed.”
Bahá’u’lláh, The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 19
It depends on the community and individual. Where I live there are certainly Baha'is who contribute to charitable activities in their community and that is a major part of their faith.
Because of the family's special needs and being in a location that I'm not well suited for, I get out(other than to run routine chores) almost never. Hence, most of my socializing happens here(when its not full of lag).
The oldest is turning into an adult, the middle just got done with an absolutely terrifying mental health crisis that lasted most of last year(still picking up the pieces), and the littlest is absolutely chipper and upbeat.
How is your family?
That's inconvenient as well. Are you ever able to get away and have peace?
I know you wouldn't do that.
What would you like to know?
Interesting! What is the culture like where you are?
Do you feel well accepted in the group?
Not everything that a man knoweth can be disclosed, nor can everything that he can disclose be regarded as timely, nor can every timely utterance be considered as suited to the capacity of those who hear it.
Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 176
I've been a member of my city's interfaith movement for over 5 years. In my experience the discussion of prophecies and fulfilment of prophecies at best is a distraction from what we're about and at worse just winds people up.
I would consider that most people I come across in life and on this forum are not interested in changing their religion. When I am asked questions about the Baha'i Faith it is because people want to know a little bit out of interest but not because they want to join.
I suspect that too much emphasis on Baha'u'llah being the fulfilment of prophecy and proclamation may contribute to a negative perspective of Baha'is.
On the other hand I suspect that most people who are regular participants on this forum are familiar with His claims.
It is a loaded question for certain.
What I had in mind was how the Manifestations of God are essentially one and the same.
The Bearers of the Trust of God are made manifest unto the peoples of the earth as the Exponents of a new Cause and the Revealers of a new Message. Inasmuch as these Birds of the celestial Throne are all sent down from the heaven of the Will of God, and as they all arise to proclaim His irresistible Faith, they, therefore, are regarded as one soul and the same person. For they all drink from the one Cup of the love of God, and all partake of the fruit of the same Tree of Oneness.
“In thine esteemed letter thou hadst inquired which of the Prophets of God should be regarded as superior to others. Know thou assuredly that the essence of all the Prophets of God is one and the same. Their unity is absolute. God, the Creator, saith: There is no distinction whatsoever among the Bearers of My Message. They all have but one purpose; their secret is the same secret. To prefer one in honor to another, to exalt certain ones above the rest, is in no wise to be permitted. Every true Prophet hath regarded His Message as fundamentally the same as the Revelation of every other Prophet gone before Him.”
Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh | Bahá’í Reference Library
A selection of passages from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, compiled and translated by Shoghi Effendi, including extracts from Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, the Kitáb-i-Íqán, and the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, as well as other Tablets.
I believe if one sincerely follows to the best of their ability any of the Manifestations of God there is also no distinction. The Prophets of God are One and the 'Word of God' is the 'Word of God' regardless of the Manifestation.
Only Baha'is believe in Baha'u'llah. If Baha'u'llah truly is the Manifestation of God for this day, a non-Baha'is spiritual practice will assist to recognise Him to some degree if only the practical benefits of some of His Teachings.
That is really tough to be so restricted socially. It tough see your children struggle.Because of the family's special needs and being in a location that I'm not well suited for, I get out(other than to run routine chores) almost never. Hence, most of my socializing happens here(when its not full of lag).
The oldest is turning into an adult, the middle just got done with an absolutely terrifying mental health crisis that lasted most of last year(still picking up the pieces), and the littlest is absolutely chipper and upbeat.
How is your family?
That's inconvenient as well. Are you ever able to get away and have peace?
I know you wouldn't do that.
What would you like to know?
Interesting! What is the culture like where you are?
Do you feel well accepted in the group?
My youngest did his first year of university last year and tried to get into medical school but failed. His grades averaged about 90 % which is far better than I could ever do but it wasn't good enough. So he's really down and struggling with what to do this year. He still lives with us.
My oldest OTOH was studying at a University in a city about 5 hours drive from us and managed to get into engineering. We've just sorted his accommodation for the next 3 years but tomorrow I'm going to have to ride his motorcycle to the new city. Its small and not really fast enough to be on the highway...5 hour drive...things we do for our children.
I'm trying to reduce my work hours so I don't have to deal with so many people. I'm hopeful that will make life easier but who knows.
In regards your Faith; What deities do you worship? What are your main practices? Do you have a local temple to attend or community?
Our city is about 80% European so we have the largest Asian/Indian population in town. Over half the retired GPs patients were Indian and now they have relocated with us. His replacement is a Hare Krishna and no one wanted to employ this guy who don's robes and goes down the street chanting Hare Krishna and handing out nuts. I've been pretty clear we're a medical centre and I don't want proselytizing and using our Centre for extended ISHKON religious practices. Its worked out really well. We have known each other for many years through the interfaith group and having worked together in the hospital. He considers it a miracle that I employed him when no one else would. I consider it a pragmatic decision. He's a really good doctor and I'm please I rose above my personal prejudices.
I have a good relationship with our interfaith group and feel really welcome and a valued member.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
One has to read that passage in context in order to understand what it means. The passage is not about what we tell other people. It is referring to what Baha'u'llah knew that He did not reveal to us since it was not timely to reveal to us everything that He knew since we did not have the capacity to understand it.
“Oh, would that the world could believe Me! Were all the things that lie enshrined within the heart of Bahá, and which the Lord, His God, the Lord of all names, hath taught Him, to be unveiled to mankind, every man on earth would be dumbfounded.
How great the multitude of truths which the garment of words can never contain! How vast the number of such verities as no expression can adequately describe, whose significance can never be unfolded, and to which not even the remotest allusions can be made! How manifold are the truths which must remain unuttered until the appointed time is come! Even as it hath been said: “Not everything that a man knoweth can be disclosed, nor can everything that he can disclose be regarded as timely, nor can every timely utterance be considered as suited to the capacity of those who hear it.
Of these truths some can be disclosed only to the extent of the capacity of the repositories of the light of Our knowledge, and the recipients of Our hidden grace.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 176
I agree. I don't think it is a good idea to talk to people about fulfillment of prophecies. Another reason other than what you mentioned is that Baha'u'llah did not say that prophecies are the evidence we should look at to determine the truth of His claims.
Yes, I know that about this forum, but many people post on the Baha'i forum on Reddit who are looking to convert. Just the other day a Muslim posted a thread asking the Baha'is why he should convert from Islam to the Baha'i Faith, and Christians also post threads like that, and just today someone who believes in God but is not religious asked why he should convert to the Baha'i Faith.
I think it does contribute to a negative perspective but I don't know why it should. I think the reason it gives a negative view of the Baha'is is because of certain posters (one in particular) who has carried on about how Baha'u'llah did not fulfill certain prophecies, and that then turns into an argument. It also turns into an argument when certain Christians go on about how Baha'u'llah did not fulfill certain prophecies.
Yes, I think they are.
(Continued on next post)
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
However, there is also this passage:It is a loaded question for certain.
What I had in mind was how the Manifestations of God are essentially one and the same.
The Bearers of the Trust of God are made manifest unto the peoples of the earth as the Exponents of a new Cause and the Revealers of a new Message. Inasmuch as these Birds of the celestial Throne are all sent down from the heaven of the Will of God, and as they all arise to proclaim His irresistible Faith, they, therefore, are regarded as one soul and the same person. For they all drink from the one Cup of the love of God, and all partake of the fruit of the same Tree of Oneness.
“In thine esteemed letter thou hadst inquired which of the Prophets of God should be regarded as superior to others. Know thou assuredly that the essence of all the Prophets of God is one and the same. Their unity is absolute. God, the Creator, saith: There is no distinction whatsoever among the Bearers of My Message. They all have but one purpose; their secret is the same secret. To prefer one in honor to another, to exalt certain ones above the rest, is in no wise to be permitted. Every true Prophet hath regarded His Message as fundamentally the same as the Revelation of every other Prophet gone before Him.”
Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh | Bahá’í Reference Library
A selection of passages from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, compiled and translated by Shoghi Effendi, including extracts from Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, the Kitáb-i-Íqán, and the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, as well as other Tablets.www.bahai.org
“These Manifestations of God have each a twofold station. One is the station of pure abstraction and essential unity. In this respect, if thou callest them all by one name, and dost ascribe to them the same attributes, thou hast not erred from the truth. Even as He hath revealed: “No distinction do We make between any of His Messengers.” For they, one and all, summon the people of the earth to acknowledge the unity of God, and herald unto them the Kawthar of an infinite grace and bounty. They are all invested with the robe of prophethood, and are honored with the mantle of glory.....
The other station is the station of distinction, and pertaineth to the world of creation, and to the limitations thereof. In this respect, each Manifestation of God hath a distinct individuality, a definitely prescribed mission, a predestined revelation, and specially designated limitations. Each one of them is known by a different name, is characterized by a special attribute, fulfils a definite mission, and is entrusted with a particular Revelation.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 50-52
The first part of the Religion of God which refers to spiritual truth is the same in every religion, so as your passage above says "Every true Prophet hath regarded His Message as fundamentally the same as the Revelation of every other Prophet gone before Him.” However, the second part of the Religion of God which refers to material things is different in each religion. It changes in every age with each new Manifestation of God to accommodate the needs of the times.
There is also a distinction between the primary message that the Manifestations of God bring. Religion is associated with social evolution. Thus the primary mission of each Messenger of God changes from age to age as humanity evolves. The mission and associated message is progressive, each mission building upon the previous one
“The Revelation associated with the Faith of Jesus Christ focused attention primarily on the redemption of the individual and the molding of his conduct, and stressed, as its central theme, the necessity of inculcating a high standard of morality and discipline into man, as the fundamental unit in human society. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find any reference to the unity of nations or the unification of mankind as a whole. When Jesus spoke to those around Him, He addressed them primarily as individuals rather than as component parts of one universal, indivisible entity.......
The Faith of Islám, the succeeding link in the chain of Divine Revelation, introduced, as Bahá’u’lláh Himself testifies, the conception of the nation as a unit and a vital stage in the organization of human society, and embodied it in its teaching. This indeed is what is meant by this brief yet highly significant and illuminating pronouncement of Bahá’u’lláh: “Of old [Islamic Dispensation] it hath been revealed: ‘Love of one’s country is an element of the Faith of God.’” This principle was established and stressed by the Apostle of God, inasmuch as the evolution of human society required it at that time. Nor could any stage above and beyond it have been envisaged, as world conditions preliminary to the establishment of a superior form of organization were as yet unobtainable. The conception of nationality, the attainment to the state of nationhood, may, therefore, be said to be the distinguishing characteristics of the MuHammadan Dispensation, in the course of which the nations and races of the world, and particularly in Europe and America, were unified and achieved political independence.....
“One of the great events,” ‘Abdu’l-Bahá has, in His “Some Answered Questions,” affirmed, “which is to occur in the Day of the manifestation of that Incomparable Branch [Bahá’u’lláh] is the hoisting of the Standard of God among all nations. By this is meant that all nations and kindreds will be gathered together under the shadow of this Divine Banner, which is no other than the Lordly Branch itself, and will become a single nation. Religious and sectarian antagonism, the hostility of races and peoples, and differences among nations, will be eliminated. All men will adhere to one religion, will have one common faith, will be blended into one race, and become a single people. All will dwell in one common fatherland, which is the planet itself.”
The Promised Day Is Come, pp. 119-121
If there is no distinction, why would it matter if people embrace the Baha'i Faith? Why not just continue to have a bunch of separate religions forever?
If you believe what Baha'u'llah wrote, clearly that is not what God has ordained.
“That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. This, verily, is the truth, and all else naught but error.”
The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 91
Why teach the Faith if people are not going to embrace it and instead just say "oh, that's interesting?"
It sure seemed to matter to Baha'u'llah that people embrace His Cause, which is the Cause of God.
In the following passages 'the Cause of God' and 'His Cause' are the Cause of Baha'u'llah, i.e. the Baha'i Faith.
“Say: Teach ye the Cause of God, O people of Bahá, for God hath prescribed unto every one the duty of proclaiming His Message, and regardeth it as the most meritorious of all deeds.” Gleanings, p. 278
“Unloose your tongues, and proclaim unceasingly His Cause. This shall be better for you than all the treasures of the past and of the future, if ye be of them that comprehend this truth.” Gleanings, p. 330
Referring to Baha’u’llah as “Him Whom God shall make manifest” the Bab wrote:
“Wert thou to open the heart of a single soul by helping him to embrace the Cause of Him Whom God shall make manifest, thine inmost being would be filled with the inspirations of that august Name… For indeed if thou dost open the heart of a person for His sake, better will it be for thee than every virtuous deed; since deeds are secondary to faith in Him and certitude in His Reality. XVII, 15.”
Selections From the Writings of the Báb, p. 133
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CG Didymus
Veteran Member
And the same thing is said by various Christian sects. And some have very different and contradictory beliefs. And then there are "religions" like Scientology. It's changed a lot of people.
And I'm sure some of the stories of some of the people will be from people that have left some other religion but found that "special" one, the "true" one that changed their life.
I still go with that most any spiritual/religious beliefs can and will change people... if they believe it and apply its teachings. Unfortunately, some of them are known to be made-up by some fake person claiming to be some sort of prophet or the "return" of some great spiritual person. Yet... they still work for those that believe.
That's true for all individuals anywhere. Same here in my temple community, and same in the community of my childhood. Regardless, I see being more important than words. It's truly amazing what some people do - without thought of reward.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Aah, if we also saw the light. Feeding a few poor people doesn't solve the problem. Someday, if the Baha'i plan gets enacted, the food problem, the housing problems, the economic problems will all be solved. But, right now, they can't do those things, because they are too small and insignificant... but someday. So, in the meantime, they preach, I mean "teach" the word, and try to get more people to believe and become Baha'is.
Of course, they'll probably react negatively to me saying that. And then turn right around and start "teaching" us what they believe. Why they don't like to admit what they do is kind of odd? It's not as bad as some of the other proselytizing religions. They think they've got the truth and are told to go teach others.