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What if we accepted each others Religion?

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
Teaching how to fish yield real, edible fish. Baha'i does not produce fish.
What if I mean, "Spiritual Food" by "Fish"?
Just as our body needs food, so does our soul.
The food of body is well known. People always talk about what to eat and what not eat. This food is good for you, that food is not good, another food is poisonous. But I think most people do not realize they also need Spiritual Food. What is a good Spiritual food, what is bad for your spirit and what is poisonous!
Bahai Faith teaches all that related to your Spiritual needs and how to obtain the food and what not to eat. But I find most people careless about it. They think, if they have a lot of money, and the worldly things, they will have peace and happiness. They dont see to realize, happiness is from spirit, not the materialism.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
I have yet to find out about a specific Baha'i action though, with one notable exception. So far it's been all talk. Talking about action isn't action. I've seen that too much, where a charitable group (like the board of trustees at a temple) will take an hour to discuss what to do about something that takes 10 minutes of action. That's not my style.
That is because we, like all faiths have service to our community and the entire human race as a goal.

We, like many, do what we can and have no need to offer what that is, we do not need praise or recognition for any service or charity we may choose to do.

The community and those helped know, they are thankful and that is praise enough, the action is the reward.

Regards Tony
 
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ppp

Well-Known Member
What if I mean, "Spiritual Food" by "Fish"?
Then I would say you are using metaphoric language to point to something that's neither identifiable nor real.

The bahai
Bahai Faith teaches all that related to you Spiritual needs and how to obtain the food and what not to eat. But I find most peope careless about it.
The bahai certainly claim that. I find the bahai statements of belief to be the typical combination of human strengths and foibles.
That is because we, like all faiths have service to our community and the entire human race as a goal.

We, like many, do what we can and have no need to offer what that is, we do not need praise or recognition for any service or charity we may choose to do.

The community and those helped know, they are thankful and that is praise enough, the action is the reward.

Regards Tony
It also means that your words lack credibility. There are thousands of religions and foundations and cults and snake oil salesmen claiming the same things that you claim above.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Well known, perhaps?

Its worth pointing out that I don't have a specific 'set' I work with. This list isn't exhaustive. :)
Yeah, From an outisder perspective Krishna and Shiva are very well known. They are interwoven with Brahma though Brahma appears not to be worshipped so much.

Surya I had to look up but was able to make a few connections...Rama, Shiva, the sun.

What led you to your choice of these dieties?
That's really pretty! Which divinities are honored in your family's budsudan?

We actually have entire areas of the house set aside for religious reasons(three rooms, total?) But, everything seems to have taken over, and I live in a house of many shrines... Mostly Hindu, but for complex reasons, a few others are mixed in. Its beautiful, it awes some, scares others, and causes me to be very mindful of who I let in the house.
Buddha is central and then a few Kodami (Shinto spirits within nature). There's a candle, bell and incense. Its really important to my life partner/wife. For her Kami-sama is God or the supreme being.


I get the feeling you are very devoted to spiritual practice.
That's nice the local Baha'i and Hindu communities are friendly enough with each other to be comfortable sharing grounds.

Years ago, my husband and I would drive two hours south to a temple once a month to attend the Rudrabishikam(a type of ceremony for Shiva). Then Covid happened, along with other life changes(vehicles unable to make a 4 hour round trip, and then increasing mental health problems in the family) and those trips are extremely difficult, if not impossible, to make.

You are very blessed to have so much community nearby!
Covid has really upended life for a lot of us in a negative way. A lot of school attendence has dropped and tourism is making a slow recovery. To the contrary it has presented a lot of opportunities for some medical doctors.

I used to work in mental health including youth. Services are often hard to access due to poor resourses and chronic under funding and staff shortages lead quite a few in the sector to become burnt out and cynical. How has it been getting help for your middle child?
Is it something you do around the same time, or do you spread this out during the day?

Why 95 times?
I recite Allah'u'Abha anytime between noon and sunset. I never break it up as it only takes a few minutes. It is one of a few set of spiritual practices set by Baha'u'llah. It probably originates from the Persian Bayan (written by the Bab) and symbolises God and His Manifestations.
No. My father was the fire and brimstone type of Christian, and my mom was a closet case new ager. Those were my influences. Dad pushed Christianity really hard, but it didn't take, and I'd gotten into Paganism by my late teens. I remained a Pagan until around my 30s. I still have a positive view of Paganism, and my oldest son, being raised mostly in that tradition, considers himself a cultural Pagan.

If I remember right, you grew up Christian?
My mother sounds a little like your father. She was descended from hard line protestants in Northern Ireland.

How did your father feel about your pagan leanings. I can't imagine it wouldn't have been much of an issue for your mother.

My father was a Free Mason which I came to understand admitted men of any recognised religion. In more recent times its moved from being exclusively men to be more inclusive of women. Better late than never. They do a lot of charity work and are bit like Rotary and the Lions if they are a thing where you live.

What did paganism look like for you in your teens?
I change my avatar daily, but when you asked, it was Zoroaster. :)

I choose my avatars at random out of my picture files.
Yes, I notice frequent changes. How does Zoroaster fit with your beliefs? I'm sure you are aware Baha'i view him as a Manifestation of God.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
What evidence, if I may ask?
The Bible and the NT are filled with God proving himself... if any of those stories are real. To many people they aren't real. And some of those people think that those people that take those stories as being literal to be very foolish.

God sends plagues to the Egyptians until Pharoah lets Moses and the Hebrews go. God sends manna from heaven to feed the people while they wander through the desert. God sends fire from heaven to consume Elijah's sacrifice. In the NT, Jesus is born of a virgin. He turns water into wine. He heals the blind and casts out demons. He walks on water. And he rises from the dead.

That's "proof" for those that believe. However, if those are just made-up stories, is this miracle working God real? Some Baha'is don't believe those stories, the "proof", really happened. Yet, they believe that this God of the Bible and the NT is real. Why? Because of the supposed "evidence"... their prophet.

And you can probably tell us all kinds of proof and evidence that some Hindus give as to why Krishna is God and/or an incarnation of a God. And proof of the many Gods that are believed in by some Hindus. Do Baha'is accept those "proofs"? Probably not.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
And you can probably tell us all kinds of proof and evidence that some Hindus give as to why Krishna is God and/or an incarnation of a God. And proof of the many Gods that are believed in by some Hindus. Do Baha'is accept those "proofs"? Probably not.
Aup is a hard atheist so I doubt if he will be providing any evidence or proofs for God let alone Krishna having existed at all.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
I'm pleased to have contributed to your amusement and happiness in life.
What's even worse, how much do any of us know about what Zoroaster's teachings were? It's too easy to call him a "manifestation" and make a bunch of generalizations about his teachings. That's what is getting some Baha'is in trouble here. They say Krisha is this. And Buddha taught that. That Zoroaster prophesied he'd return when this happened. But none of it lines up with what people in those religions believe.

So, it ends up that Baha'is are telling them, as if they, the Baha'is know, what the true teachings of those other religions really are. Essentially saying, "if you knew your Scriptures, you'd know that one promised in your Scriptures, has returned."

I know you all mean well, and you believe you have the truth, but it still sounds bad and is usually taken badly. And makes it hard to build a bridge and try to forge any kind of unity with those people in those other religions.
 

JustGeorge

Imperfect
Staff member
Premium Member
Yeah, From an outisder perspective Krishna and Shiva are very well known. They are interwoven with Brahma though Brahma appears not to be worshipped so much.
Well, its actually Vishnu and Shiva that are sometimes interwoven with Brahma as Creator/Preserver/Destroyer. Krishna is an avatar of Vishnu. Its worth noting that the concept of the Trimurti isn't real notable to Hindus, typically. And you're absolutely right; Brahma is seldom worshipped.

Surya I had to look up but was able to make a few connections...Rama, Shiva, the sun.
The sun, riding along on his glorious chariot. :)
What led you to your choice of these dieties?
I had an experience with Krishna(one I wasn't expecting). If you'd like to hear it, shoot me a PM. My husband had an experience with Shiva. As for any other deities, I am a polytheist, and am very open in my approach. Sometimes one will pop out and whap me on the head, other times I get a gut feeling to work with one or another. Some stick and become 'friends', others remain more distant.
Buddha is central and then a few Kodami (Shinto spirits within nature). There's a candle, bell and incense. Its really important to my life partner/wife. For her Kami-sama is God or the supreme being.
That sounds beautiful.

I'm aware you and your wife have different faiths. Is that enriching for you, or does it present challenges?

I get the feeling you are very devoted to spiritual practice.
My spirituality is perhaps the center of my life. I've had my world ripped asunder this last year, and while my practice has had to change, my feelings on it haven't.
Covid has really upended life for a lot of us in a negative way. A lot of school attendence has dropped and tourism is making a slow recovery. To the contrary it has presented a lot of opportunities for some medical doctors.
We ended up homeschooling due to Covid. After my non-verbal son(who was not expected to every become fully verbal) started talking within a month, we kept at it. We're only now considering putting him back in public school(and its going really poorly, and I'm starting to rethink it).
I used to work in mental health including youth. Services are often hard to access due to poor resourses and chronic under funding and staff shortages lead quite a few in the sector to become burnt out and cynical. How has it been getting help for your middle child?
Its been a nightmare. The hospitals locally kept turning us away. The day he was throwing tools at powerlines, rushing neighborhood houses, and laughing maniacally, we drove to an ER a couple hours away. We finally got some help there. But, he's a unique case, and its been a long, drawn out process.
I recite Allah'u'Abha anytime between noon and sunset. I never break it up as it only takes a few minutes. It is one of a few set of spiritual practices set by Baha'u'llah. It probably originates from the Persian Bayan (written by the Bab) and symbolises God and His Manifestations.
That's really cool! Thanks for sharing that.
My mother sounds a little like your father. She was descended from hard line protestants in Northern Ireland.

How did your father feel about your pagan leanings. I can't imagine it wouldn't have been much of an issue for your mother.
He hated it initially, and believed I worshipped the devil lol Over the years, he came around. I think it bothered him that my sisters were anti-religious, and he started actually listening when I'd talk religion.

We're actually able to discuss things civilly now(much like you and I are talking here).
My father was a Free Mason which I came to understand admitted men of any recognised religion. In more recent times its moved from being exclusively men to be more inclusive of women. Better late than never. They do a lot of charity work and are bit like Rotary and the Lions if they are a thing where you live.
I'm an 18th degree Co-Mason. :) Co-Masonry is Freemasonry that accepts both men and women. Not a whole lot of lodges around, but I hope that changes someday.
What did paganism look like for you in your teens?
I came in as a Wiccan, and eventually landed at Druidry.
Yes, I notice frequent changes. How does Zoroaster fit with your beliefs? I'm sure you are aware Baha'i view him as a Manifestation of God.
I'm not sure if Zoroaster fits anywhere specific in my beliefs. I find Zoroastrianism interesting; I spent a few months last year trying to familiarize myself with it. I was surprised to learn of all the holy beings under Ahura Mazda, and I loved that each day of the calendar month had its own divinity assigned to it.

I knew Zoroastrianism was considered one of the revealed religions by Baha'i; I didn't know they thought him to be a manifestation of God. Good to know!
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Aup is a hard atheist so I doubt if he will be providing any evidence or proofs for God let alone Krishna having existed at all.
Not that he believes it. But I'll bet he knows some of the stories. And you and I probably won't believe them either. But it's what "believers" take as being true and use it as their "proof" that their religion, prophet and God are true. Like with those Trinitarian Christians that believe Jesus literally rose from the dead and is God. They think they have proof. Their proof is the words in the Bible and NT.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Not that he believes it. But I'll bet he knows some of the stories. And you and I probably won't believe them either. But it's what "believers" take as being true and use it as their "proof" that their religion, prophet and God are true. Like with those Trinitarian Christians that believe Jesus literally rose from the dead and is God. They think they have proof. Their proof is the words in the Bible and NT.
Aup is a great resource of information about Hinduism once we move past the initial negative commentary about the Baha'i Faith.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
And you can probably tell us all kinds of proof and evidence that some Hindus give as to why Krishna is God and/or an incarnation of a God. And proof of the many Gods that are believed in by some Hindus. Do Baha'is accept those "proofs"? Probably not.
I too do not accept Gods/Goddesses and stories of what they are supposed to have done. That is why I am a strong atheist (and, of course, and 'advaitists' (non-dualist), where existence of Gods is an anathema).
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Then I would say you are using metaphoric language to point to something that's neither identifiable nor real.

The bahai
The bahai certainly claim that. I find the bahai statements of belief to be the typical combination of human strengths and foibles.
It also means that your words lack credibility. There are thousands of religions and foundations and cults and snake oil salesmen claiming the same things that you claim above.
And in the gospels, it says that Jesus is the "bread" of life and that he gives is "living" water and those that drink of it will never thirst again. So, of course, Baha'is can't let that stand without having some symbolic thing of their own. We are supposed to think... "Ah yes, the Baha'i teachings are like food for the soul. Without them the soul would starve to death." And I'm sure it is for the believers.

But then what is the "spiritual" food that the other religions are offering? Spoiled food? Food that has passed its expiration date?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
And in the gospels, it says that Jesus is the "bread" of life and that he gives is "living" water and those that drink of it will never thirst again. So, of course, Baha'is can't let that stand without having some symbolic thing of their own.
Baha'is don't need some 'symbolic thing' because we have the real thing -- the Water of Life.

“Incline your ears to the sweet melody of this Prisoner. Arise, and lift up your voices, that haply they that are fast asleep may be awakened. Say: O ye who are as dead! The Hand of Divine bounty proffereth unto you the Water of Life. Hasten and drink your fill. Whoso hath been re-born in this Day, shall never die; whoso remaineth dead, shall never live.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213

“He is indeed as one dead who, at the wondrous dawn of this Revelation, hath failed to be quickened by its soul-stirring breeze. He is indeed a captive who hath not recognized the Supreme Redeemer, but hath suffered his soul to be bound, distressed and helpless, in the fetters of his desires.

O My servants! Whoso hath tasted of this Fountain hath attained unto everlasting Life, and whoso hath refused to drink therefrom is even as the dead. Say: O ye workers of iniquity! Covetousness hath hindered you from giving a hearing ear unto the sweet voice of Him Who is the All-Sufficing. Wash it away from your hearts, that His Divine secret may be made known unto you. Behold Him manifest and resplendent as the sun in all its glory.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 169

Jesus also offered the Water of Life, so people can get their Water from Jesus or from Baha'u'llah, or from both!

John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

John 4:14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.

John 7:38-39 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’” But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
And in the gospels, it says that Jesus is the "bread" of life and that he gives is "living" water and those that drink of it will never thirst again. So, of course, Baha'is can't let that stand without having some symbolic thing of their own. We are supposed to think... "Ah yes, the Baha'i teachings are like food for the soul. Without them the soul would starve to death." And I'm sure it is for the believers.

But then what is the "spiritual" food that the other religions are offering? Spoiled food? Food that has passed its expiration date?
Exactly the same. I read the Buddhist, Hindu, Christian and Muslim Holy Books regularly and I get so much spiritual sustenance from them all just as I do the Baha’i Writings. They are all bread and water for my spirit and soul. In the Dhammapada, the Bible, the Bhagavad-Gita and Quran, there is wisdom and truth. These spiritual teachings are eternal. They never expire.

But the social laws like punishments, divorce and other laws such as how to administer the community change with the times. All our leaders are elected committees. Baha’u’llah abolished priesthood so no individual has any power. Laws for theft and murder and such are adapted to the times we live in and are only for this age and are not permanent. So we do not follow past laws like the cutting off of the thief’s hand or stoning, crucifixion or lashing which some communities still do today.

But the spiritual things. The virtues like love, justice, mercy, compassion, kindness , truthfulness, trustworthiness which are promoted by all religions, we follow no matter which religion teaches them for they are the food and water of the soul and never spoil and have no expiration date.
 
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