The Bhagavad Gita is not the Hindu holy book. It is one of many, and the Vedas are more important. Through the Baha'i lens, it might be, but the comment is just more demonstration of how little Baha'i know about Hinduism.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
What if we accepted each others Religion?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
Hindus have a regular library amongst us...
When I first became a Baha'i I used to go to the Baha'i House of Worship in Sydney where they read from all religious scriptures considered to be the Word of God. Now I remember there were many passages read in the Temple which I really liked. But one in particular that stayed with me all my life and engraved itself in my heart which was from the Rig Veda Book 2 Hymn 28 passage 5
Let not my thread, while I weave song, be severed, nor my work's sum, before the time, be shattered.
So I had memorised and treasured and prized this Vedic verse I heard recited at the Baha'i Temple and could not locate it's source for decades until I came across it in the Rig Veda. So the Vedas are read in Baha'i Houses of Worship not just the Bhagavad-Gita.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Then there's the teachings like in Christianity about salvation. It's not about following laws and becoming virtuous. They don't believe a person can ever do enough good or be good enough to gain salvation. Here's what Born-Again/Evangelical Christians believe about what the NT teaches on how to be saved. Do you agree with them? If not, how are they wrong?
Faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior is the only “step” to salvation. The message of the Bible is abundantly clear. We have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23). Because of our sin, we deserve to be eternally separated from God (Romans 6:23). Because of His love for us (John 3:16), God took on human form and died in our place, taking the punishment that we deserve (Romans 5:8; 2 Corinthians 5:21). God promises forgiveness of sins and eternal life in heaven to all who receive, by grace through faith, Jesus Christ as Savior (John 1:12; 3:16; 5:24; Acts 16:31).
Salvation is not about certain steps we must follow to earn salvation. Yes, Christians should be baptized. Yes, Christians should publicly confess Christ as Savior. Yes, Christians should turn from sin. Yes, Christians should commit their lives to obeying God. However, these are not steps to salvation. They are results of salvation. Because of our sin, we cannot in any sense earn salvation. We could follow 1000 steps, and it would not be enough. That is why Jesus had to die in our place. We are absolutely incapable of paying our sin debt to God or cleansing ourselves from sin. Only God could accomplish our salvation, and so He did. God Himself completed the “steps” and thereby offers salvation to anyone who will receive it from Him.
Salvation and forgiveness of sins is not about following steps. It is about receiving Christ as Savior and recognizing that He has done all of the work for us. God requires one step of us—receiving Jesus Christ as our Savior from sin and fully trusting in Him alone as the way of salvation. That is what distinguishes the Christian faith from all other world religions, each of which has a list of steps that must be followed in order for salvation to be received. The Christian faith recognizes that God has already completed the steps and simply calls on the repentant to receive Him in faith.
Last edited:
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
But are Baha'is going to find what they are looking for in the Bhagavad Gita? Sure, they find Krishna, but are there new social laws and talk of eternal spirituals truths that are compatible with the teachings of the Baha'i Faith or any other Abrahamic religion?
But what does LH do if and when there is any mention of Krishna being an incarnation of a Hindu God or anything about people being reincarnated? How does he and other Baha'is explain away those teachings? If those things are there, and part of the teachings, then he is being very selective of what he believes is true and what he's not.
Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. [Matt. 7:21; Also see 1 Thess. 4:3-8]
He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. [John 3:36
And there are many more which indicate that obedience and belief go hand in hand. We must look at the whole picture in the Bible to see the truth because in other passages, deeds if not agreeable to God, the believer won’t be saved or enter heaven. There is no such thing as automatic salvation in the Bible just through belief. Isolating a text is taking the subject out of context without considering what other verses say on the topic and the overall picture is that salvation through Christ can only be achieved through both belief and obedience not just one.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
So... those Born-Again Christians are wrong? They are the ones taking things out of context?
Everyone believes they are right so according to themselves they are right. In the end it’s for God to judge.
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
What of who is a ‘Born Again’ Christian?
Who dictates that they are ‘Born Again’?
How did they claim to have become ‘Born Again’?
What do ‘Born Again’ Christian’s believe about God, the Father, and Jesus, the Christ?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
But the Baha'i Faith does judge them and says they are wrong. A lot of what those Christians believe is based directly on things that Paul has said in his epistles. The things you quoted are things that are believed to be said by Jesus.
The Christians I'm talking about believe that all people have inherited a sin nature from Adam... that sin entered the world because of Adam's disobedience. They believe a mighty angel got prideful and jealous of God and rebelled against God and took a third of the other angels with him. And, of course, they interpret some verses in a way to make Jesus God. To explain that they came up with the Trinity. That there is one God in three distinct personalities.
They say the Law was given to show that people can never be good enough to earn salvation. A perfect sacrifice had to be made... Jesus was that perfect sacrifice. The "free" gift of salvation is there for all to accept or reject. Once a person accepts Jesus, then they are obligated to follow all that Jesus has commanded them.
Baha'is are more like it is up to people to do the best they can. The more they do good and follow the laws of God the closer they will get to God in the next spiritual world. And they will continue to grow in the many spiritual worlds of God.
That's a little different. But my next question for the Baha'is is... What do you call those teachings? They are not "social" laws. They are spiritual things. But these types of "spiritual" teachings are not the same in the different religions. Like with Christianity teaching about Satan and hell. What are those? I don't see how Baha'is can classify them as social, changeable teachings. So, what are they?
For Christians those are spiritual truths. Those are spiritual realities, but the Baha'is say "no"... Those things aren't real. Satan is not real but is symbolic of our lower nature. That hell is not real... that is just being further from God. Every religion has different beliefs about those types of things. What are those kinds of teachings to Baha'is?
I know what Baha'is do with some of them... like reincarnation, having a soul or no soul, hell, Satan, the resurrection... they make them symbolic and/or misinterpreted. Really? Why wouldn't those things fall into the category of spiritual teachings? Other than that Baha'is would then have to say that spiritual teachings in the various religions do change.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, the Baha'i Faith does not judge anyone or say that they are wrong.
If individual Baha'is do that that is wrong because it goes against what Baha'u'llah has enjoined us to do.
“Through each and every one of the verses which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed, the doors of love and unity have been unlocked and flung open to the face of men. We have erewhile declared—and Our Word is the truth—: “Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship.” Whatsoever hath led the children of men to shun one another, and hath caused dissensions and divisions amongst them, hath, through the revelation of these words, been nullified and abolished. From the heaven of God’s Will, and for the purpose of ennobling the world of being and of elevating the minds and souls of men, hath been sent down that which is the most effective instrument for the education of the whole human race.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 95
All we should be doing is saying what we believe is true.
If what we believe is true is in conflict with 'some things' that Christians believe, that would make them wrong if what Baha'is believe is true.
We don’t say they are wrong. We have our understanding and they have theirs.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Again... the Baha'i quote that says that the Bible is not "Wholly" authentic. Then what Abdul Baha says about the "real" meaning of the resurrection. And what Baha'u'llah says about Ishmael being the son taken by Abraham to be sacrificed.
Assuming the Baha'i Faith is true, that makes a lot of things in the other religions wrong. And, if the Baha'i Faith is true, what would be wrong with that? Baha'is will be doing all that "correcting" of the old religions like they say the new manifestation is supposed to be doing.
So... one more time... Do Baha'is believe in the physical resurrection of Jesus? No, Baha'is believe anybody that believe that is wrong. They have misunderstood and misinterpreted the resurrection story. Switch to the religions that believe in reincarnation. Do Baha'is believe reincarnation is true? No. Baha'is believe the people that believe that it is true are wrong.
If the Baha'i message is meant to correct these things that Baha'i think are wrong beliefs in the other religions, then stand by it and own it.
The other religions as revealed by their Manifestations are correct and true. When Baha’is refer to religion we refer to the actual religion ‘as revealed’ not the added dogmas and interpretations.
The problem with authenticity is that Christ did not record His teachings. And what was recorded is what the disciples remembered. Whereas the Quran was revealed in Muhammad’s Lifetime and the Bab and Baha’u’llah wrote down Their Revelation.
The Four Gospels were written after Him [Christ]. John, Luke, Mark and Matthew - these four wrote after Christ what they remembered of His utterances. (Baha’u’llah)
Once again you mistakedly refer to what ’Baha‘is believe’ instead of what Baha’u’llah says . He is we believe, All Knowing and has made these subjects clear in His Book of Certitude. Baha’is promote the major religions in their original form.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The other religions have NOTHING that was revealed by their Manifestations, since none of those Manifestations wrote anything that is in the scriptures of those religions.
All we have of what Christ said is in the NT and it was allegedly written by the disciples but Bible scholars do not all agree on this.
Firstly, the New Testament is known as a collection of writings by Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, James, and Jude. But it's not as simple as that. There is much debate among scholars about the authorship of some of these writings. This means that traditional attributions are not universally accepted.
Who Wrote the New Testament? The Answer May Surprise You
What is their original form, and how can we know that it was what those Manifestations actually said?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
The "standard" for some religions was to go and conquer others. And some forced their religion on those they conquered. God tells his people to go and take the land. Then whatever Christianity and Islam was supposed to do, they did a lot of conquering and forcing the people to convert or die.
Then there is this problem... What was the "original" form? Even a Baha'i that quotes a lot of Bible and NT verses points out that we don't know for sure what the "original" message was.
If you don't know it and can't show it, don't act like it's something real. "Original" Christianity was what the followers of Jesus made it to be. And it was years later before the canon of the NT was determined. And we all know that there was a lot of writings about Jesus that got rejected.
the Torah that God hath confirmed consists of the exact words that streamed forth at the bidding of God from the tongue of Him Who conversed with Him (Moses). (Baha’u’llah ) (From a previously untranslated Tablet)
The Four Gospels were written after Him [Christ]. John, Luke, Mark and Matthew - these four wrote after Christ what they remembered of His utterances.
(From a previously untranslated Tablet)
we cannot be sure how much or how little of the four Gospels are accurate and include the words of Christ and His undiluted teachings, all we can be sure of, as Bahá'ís, is that what has been quoted by Bahá'u'lláh and the Master must be absolutely authentic. As many times passages in the Gospel of St. John are quoted we may assume that it is his Gospel and much of it accurate.
(23 January 1944 to an individual believer)
We cannot be sure of the authenticity of any of the phrases in the Old or the New Testament. What we can be sure of is when such references or words are cited or quoted in either the Quran or the Bahá'í writings.
(4 July 1947 to an individual believer)
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I know all those passages but what I meant is that we have no original writings from any Messengers of God/Prophets except for the Writings of the Bab and Baha'u'llah.
The Four Gospels were written after Him [Christ]. John, Luke, Mark and Matthew - these four wrote after Christ what they remembered of His utterances. (From a previously untranslated Tablet)
I do not believe that John, Luke, Mark and Matthew wrote the gospels but I would like to see the Tablet.
the Torah that God hath confirmed consists of the exact words that streamed forth at the bidding of God from the tongue of Him Who conversed with Him (Moses). (Baha’u’llah ) (From a previously untranslated Tablet)
I don't believe that but I would like to see the Tablet.
People are free to believe what they want just as I am. So if people believe these things that has nothing to do with me. I pray in all churches, temples, pagodas to God or the Ultimate Reality, I just don’t worship the statues but others can if they want. I can pray and meditate anywhere. It’s up to humanity to adopt the social laws it finds most useful.
First I would not limit my view to just the major religions. Ancient religions reflect the human view of God in the context of their culture as a part of a greater spiritual evolution of the human relationship with a universal God. I would not describe it as accepting other religions, but accepting the universal relationship between humanity, Creation as the evolving attributes of God reflected in the nature of our physical existence and humanity.
The egocentric view of one tribal religion over another lacks the empathy or as I describe as compathy (highest level of relationships without boundaries, conditions or judgement) of our relationship with humanity and Creation.
This greater sense of universal compathy can be a view of humanity and Creation regardless of whether one believes in God or not.
Last edited: