What if we accepted each others Religion?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That people pray or meditate to God in different outward forms of expression but that God is beyond our comprehension. Anything we can imagine is not God but our imagination of God.

We understand that there is only one God or one Ultimate Reality. People call Him different names. But it is the same one Reality people worship.

But the Baha'i faith does have a position on, say, whether Jesus is God, doesn't it? When a Christian prays to Jesus, believing Jesus to be God, you consider this to be indeed a prayer to God?

 

[loverofhumanity]

But the Baha'i faith does have a position on, say, whether Jesus is God, doesn't it? When a Christian prays to Jesus, believing Jesus to be God, you consider this to be indeed a prayer to God?

We understand that God is above all comprehension but we can pray to God directly or through Jesus or the other Manifestations. To us on earth They all are Representatives of God Who speak on His behalf.

This is how Baha’u’llah described this mystical relationship between God, the Manifestation and mankind.

“Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: “I am God!” He verily speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto. For it hath been repeatedly demonstrated that through their Revelation, their attributes and names, the Revelation of God, His name and His attributes, are made manifest in the world.” (Bahá’u’lláh - Book of Certitude)

 

[Vinayaka]

We understand that God is above all comprehension but we can pray to God directly or through Jesus or the other Manifestations. To us on earth They all are Representatives of God Who speak on His behalf.

This is how Baha’u’llah described this mystical relationship between God, the Manifestation and mankind.

“Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: “I am God!” He verily speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto. For it hath been repeatedly demonstrated that through their Revelation, their attributes and names, the Revelation of God, His name and His attributes, are made manifest in the world.” (Bahá’u’lláh - Book of Certitude)

In Hinduism, it is the exact opposite. If someone declares himself as Siva, or Vishnu, or Shakti, he is seen as a charlatan, a fake. The wise are known primarily by their darshan, their wise words, and their humility. These days there have been a few who have made such declarations. Not surprisingly, their devotees tend to be Abrahamics or former Abrahamics, or Hindus who have been very influenced by Abrahamic schools put there to slowly disintegrate the light of Sanatana Dharma. The vast majority doesn't buy the propaganda.

 

[JustGeorge]

That resonates.

I don't know. I'm too busy these days to check it out. In my early adulthood I had a period of intense searching for truth, when I explored other religions including Hinduism and Buddhism.

What were your impressions based on Hinduism and Buddhism based on your explorations?

I don’t need to go to an ISKCON meeting to encounter Krishna.

Very true. Never know where he'll show up.

I've never thought of Buddhism being non-theistic until I interacted with Buddhists on this forum who insist Buddhism is atheistic. They tend to be Westerners who have converted to Buddhism rather than Buddhists who have grown up with it.

My initial experience with Buddhism was with a good number of secular Buddhists, though there were a lot of others mixed in. Theism was seldom discussed as a 'Buddhist' thing, but sometimes atheism or theism was discussed as a personal thing. No one ever argued about it, though. It was a person's experience or worldview; what was there to argue?

Some Buddhist scripture, particularly those from Mahayana traditions attribute superhuman attributes to the Buddha. In Japan, Shinto is certainly Theistic and it has existed in harmony with Buddhism for centuries.

Which scriptures are those? (Genuinely curious.)

It could be argued that Buddha was often undeclared about questions of God and gods focusing instead on practical living. In doing so He encouraged his followers to avoid fruitless and divisive discussions about the nature of God/gods.That is a good thing.

That makes sense to me.

The medical model is great for dealing with many physical ailments, but a blunt instrument in regards psychological problems. For many of us psychological healing is found largely outside of medical model.

It is for many. Unfortunate for those who are a danger to themselves or others without proper medical intervention, though.

I understand the need to avoid conflict with parents growing up. Conservative Christianity does not give much credibility to other religions. Good you can all talk a little more openly these days.



Great question answered by another. The significance is that Yahweh, God of the Jews considered Cyrus a non-Jew (a Persian) to be the annointed one through the Prophet Isaiah.


I rode the better part of 5 hours in prone position to reduce wind drag so I could keep up with other vehicles on the highway. The motorcycle has a 125 cc rating and is designed for commuting round town, not the open road. It was challenging.

Aw man. Leave you feeling pretty sore?

 

[CG Didymus]

What we believe as the foundation of all religions is the spiritual teachings but the social laws change according to the needs of the age.

When a religion describes what God is like, is that a spiritual teaching or a social law? Because different religions describe their God or Gods differently. And, since you say that spiritual teachings don't change, then what can you say? The various beliefs about who God is or who and what the Gods are... are social and changeable teachings?

Or... each people and culture invented their own spiritual beliefs, including what religious laws they should follow and even who their God or Gods were.

Again, the religions of most all or maybe all of the neighboring people to the Israelites believed in a false religion with false Gods. And that included the Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans.

If Baha'is can make adjustments to Hinduism, Buddhism and even Christianity to make them compatible with Baha'i beliefs, why can't Baha'is do that for the religions of all ancient people.... like the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians and others?

 

[CG Didymus]

I personally find it very easy to accept all religions because mostly they all teach to be spiritual and a mercy to others. I don’t find that difficult to accept at all.

Didn't someone post a verse to you from the Bible about God telling his people to kill all the men, women, and children of a neighboring tribe?

 

[CG Didymus]

When we're talking about accepting other religions, what matters is what the other religion means by "spiritual teaching."

If you're saying that you're "accepting," say, Christianity or Islam but a Christian or a Muslim wouldn't recognize what you've accepted as their religion, then you haven't actually accepted Christianity or Islam in any meaningful sense.

Exactly. Because Baha'is believe that their one true God has been involved in with at least all the major religions, then they need a way to explain why their God keeps changing the laws.

I personally don't think it was a God making these laws... I think it was the religious leaders of the society making them up... and then making up the Gods and saying that those laws came from those Gods.

But definitely with Fundy/Evangelical Christians, spiritual teachings are more than just the virtues.

 

[CG Didymus]

That people pray or meditate to God in different outward forms of expression but that God is beyond our comprehension. Anything we can imagine is not God but our imagination of God.

We understand that there is only one God or one Ultimate Reality. People call Him different names. But it is the same one Reality people worship.

But the information, supposedly, came from the messengers/manifestations of this one God. Why would they all give different information about God and how to worship God and how to get close to God? And, even in the Bible, part of the "spiritual" practice was to sacrifice animals to their God.

 

[Dawnofhope]

What were your impressions based on Hinduism and Buddhism based on your explorations?

I had a period of 5 years in my early 20s searching for truth. I was really attracted to the idea about reaching a higher level of consciousness through yoga and meditation to escape the cycle of birth and death. Buddhism appeared to have similar concepts with Nirvana. I retreated into the wilderness for 2 1/2 years and would meditate each day. I really wanted to find a guru to assist. I felt happy at the time to leave the world behind as I knew. There were no Hindu community activities open in my city. The Hare Krishnas would travel down every few months. When I rejoined the wider community, I attended meetings at the Tibetan Buddhist Centre. With all the chanting in Sanskrit it was a little foreign.

In the end I became a Baha'i. It was accepting of Buddhism and Hinduism as valid spirital paths and that was important.

My initial experience with Buddhism was with a good number of secular Buddhists, though there were a lot of others mixed in. Theism was seldom discussed as a 'Buddhist' thing, but sometimes atheism or theism was discussed as a personal thing. No one ever argued about it, though. It was a person's experience or worldview; what was there to argue?

Sounds great. The issue of atheist Buddha vs theistic Buddha was never an issue during any of my contacts with Buddhists.

Which scriptures are those? (Genuinely curious.)

Check out the Eternal Buddha:

Common people believe that Buddha was born a prince and learned the way to Enlightenment as a mendicant; actually, Buddha has always existed in the world which is without beginning or end. As the Eternal Buddha, He has known all people and applied all methods of relief.

There is no falsity in the Eternal Dharma which Buddha taught, for He knows all things in the world as they are, and He teaches them to all people.

Indeed, it is very difficult to understand the world as it is, for, although it seems true, it is not, and, although it seems false, it is not. Ignorant people can not know the truth concerning the world.

https://www.bdk.or.jp/pdf/buddhist-scriptures/02_english/TheTeachingofBuddha.pdf

I first came across this book was in a hotel in Kyoto, Japan over 20 years ago. Its like having a bible in your hotel room in the West. It has echos of the opening verses from the Gospel of John.

It is for many. Unfortunate for those who are a danger to themselves or others without proper medical intervention, though.

Its hard when people are a danger to themselves and of course they may benefit from a brief admission to keep them safe. To what extent publicly funded psychiatric services assist with the underlying psychological issue is another matter.

Aw man. Leave you feeling pretty sore?

I'm an older guy on a motorcycle using muscles in a way I'm not used to. A little sore and really tired for a few days after. The motorcycle has been great for my son.

 

[exchemist]

Firstly I am only referring to the major religions.

Next I’m speaking of accepting the Founder and the spiritual teachings such as virtues and prayer etc not the laws. The administration of each faith would remain.

So Christians would accept Buddha and Muhammad, Buddhists would accept Christ and Baha’is etc

And instead of segregating ourselves in our own churches, pagodas, temples and synagogues, we would visit each others places of worship to meditate and pray together. We Baha’is already do this and read from all the sacred scriptures of each religion in all our services.

In this way we can celebrate our diversity. I think in many places this is happening and also interfaith breaking down barriers. I myself I accept all the major religions and their Founders and Holy Books and find this enriches me greatly. So I read something Christ or Buddha said and it’s a great experience. Christ says to love and Buddha says to fight hate with love and that the greatest of all conquerors is he who conquers his own self. So much wisdom from all these faiths. Why should we deprive ourselves.? If you have any favourite verses please feel most welcome to share them.

What if Baha'i people stopped preaching on this forum?

 

[Secret Chief]

What if Baha'i people stopped preaching on this forum?

I'd sign up to that.

 

[exchemist]

I'd sign up to that.

Yeah I wouldn't mind if it was just the once but:

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[Eli G]

The true God is not ecumenical.

He does not allow anyone to worship Him in the way that he desires, but in the way that He approves.

Furthermore, the religious teachings of the world are very contradictory, which indicates that many of them are false and lying.

The true God would never approve of a religion that teaches lies as truth, or that says evil is good, or vice versa.

 

[CG Didymus]

“Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: “I am God!” He verily speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto. For it hath been repeatedly demonstrated that through their Revelation, their attributes and names, the Revelation of God, His name and His attributes, are made manifest in the world.” (Bahá’u’lláh - Book of Certitude)

Which of all the people that Baha'is claim are manifestations of God would say, "I am God"?

With the Baha'i beliefs that the manifestations are like "perfectly" polished mirrors that reflect God makes it possible for Baha'is to believe such a thing. But would a Jew accept that from any of the people in their religion that Baha'is say are manifestations? Then with some religions they do believe that some of the people in their religion are God. But, with them, Baha'is don't agree. Baha'is believe those people have misinterpreted their Scriptures.

And somewhere in these threads of yours, we talked about the "minor" or "lesser' prophets. Other than in Judaism, who do Baha'is consider to be these lesser prophets? Give a few names, I don't know if I've ever seen a name of one of these lower-level prophets that wasn't a prophet in Judaism.

 

[CG Didymus]

My initial experience with Buddhism was with a good number of secular Buddhists, though there were a lot of others mixed in. Theism was seldom discussed as a 'Buddhist' thing, but sometimes atheism or theism was discussed as a personal thing. No one ever argued about it, though. It was a person's experience or worldview; what was there to argue?

Is there a need for a creator and judge like the Abrahamic God? Here's a quote from an article about Buddhism...

It also is often asked if it is all right for a Buddhist to believe in God, meaning the creator God as celebrated in Christianity, Judaism, Islam and other philosophies of monotheism. Again, this depends on what you mean by "God." As most monotheists define God, the answer is probably "no."​

​

But it's certainly the case that there are all kinds of god-like creatures and beings called devas populating the early scriptures of Buddhism.​

​

Let's start with polytheistic-type gods. In the world's religions, these have been understood in many ways, Most commonly, they are supernatural beings with some kind of agency---they control the weather, for example,​

​

In traditional Buddhist folk religion, on the other hand, the devas are usually depicted as characters living in a number of other realms, separate from the human realm. They have their own problems and have no roles to play in the human realm. There is no point praying to them even if you believe in them because they're not going to do anything for you.​

​

​

Whatever sort of existence they may or may not have really doesn't matter to Buddhist practice. Many of the stories told about the devas have allegorical points, but you can be a devoted Buddhist for your whole life and never give them any thought.​

​

So, as far as Baha'is are concerned, are they any verses that support a belief in an Abrahamic type of God?

Then, there are the "manifestations" of God... Was Buddha a manifestation/messenger of that Abrahamic God? If so, then that means he was not like us, he was a special creation, a perfectly polished mirror, sent by God to tell us about that God and what that God wanted us to know.

But my question is... if Buddha became enlightened, and taught others how to become enlightened, then those people would become like Buddha. If Buddha was a manifestation, then "normal" people could never become like Buddha.

Any thoughts on any of this?

 

[Trailblazer]

Which of all the people that Baha'is claim are manifestations of God would say, "I am God"?

None of them would say that, especially not Baha'u'llah.

“Certain ones among you have said: “He it is Who hath laid claim to be God.” By God! This is a gross calumny. I am but a servant of God Who hath believed in Him and in His signs, and in His Prophets and in His angels. My tongue, and My heart, and My inner and My outer being testify that there is no God but Him, that all others have been created by His behest, and been fashioned through the operation of His Will. There is none other God but Him, the Creator, the Raiser from the dead, the Quickener, the Slayer. I am He that telleth abroad the favors with which God hath, through His bounty, favored Me.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 228

Jesus never claimed to be God either. Christians made Jesus into God.
It is too bad that Jesus did not make it as clear as Baha'ullah made it that He was not God. It would have saved Christianity a lot of trouble.

With the Baha'i beliefs that the manifestations are like "perfectly" polished mirrors that reflect God makes it possible for Baha'is to believe such a thing.

A perfect reflection of God is not God.
Is your reflection in the mirror you? Are you in the mirror?

 

[Sand Dancer]

Firstly I am only referring to the major religions.

Next I’m speaking of accepting the Founder and the spiritual teachings such as virtues and prayer etc not the laws. The administration of each faith would remain.

So Christians would accept Buddha and Muhammad, Buddhists would accept Christ and Baha’is etc

And instead of segregating ourselves in our own churches, pagodas, temples and synagogues, we would visit each others places of worship to meditate and pray together. We Baha’is already do this and read from all the sacred scriptures of each religion in all our services.

In this way we can celebrate our diversity. I think in many places this is happening and also interfaith breaking down barriers. I myself I accept all the major religions and their Founders and Holy Books and find this enriches me greatly. So I read something Christ or Buddha said and it’s a great experience. Christ says to love and Buddha says to fight hate with love and that the greatest of all conquerors is he who conquers his own self. So much wisdom from all these faiths. Why should we deprive ourselves.? If you have any favourite verses please feel most welcome to share them.

So we should coexist? Yes!

 

[CG Didymus]

What if Baha'i people stopped preaching on this forum?

Yeah I wouldn't mind if it was just the once but:

I agree that Baha'is are doing that. And I looked at the threads you linked to and it's obvious... the threads and the questions asked are meant to open up a way to put the Baha'i teachings and beliefs out there... as in preaching it.

I personally like it, and because I know a lot about the Baha'i Faith, I'm able to debate with them and ask them questions that challenge their beliefs and claims. If they are right, and their prophet is the new messenger sent from God, fine. But I have my doubts.

 

[JustGeorge]

Is there a need for a creator and judge like the Abrahamic God? Here's a quote from an article about Buddhism...

For myself, personally? No, I don't find this concept meaningful.

It also is often asked if it is all right for a Buddhist to believe in God, meaning the creator God as celebrated in Christianity, Judaism, Islam and other philosophies of monotheism. Again, this depends on what you mean by "God." As most monotheists define God, the answer is probably "no."​

​

One thing I found with the Buddhists I spent time with was that they didn't really tell each other what to do, or how to experience things. Occasionally, a Christian that was interested in Buddhist philosophy would show up. And that was fine.

When I first started attending, I asked if I could be there at all; I was a Pagan at that time. One of the gentlemen said he couldn't imagine Buddha being troubled by that, so he wasn't, either(I ended up being one of the core members for years).

But it's certainly the case that there are all kinds of god-like creatures and beings called devas populating the early scriptures of Buddhism.​

​

Let's start with polytheistic-type gods. In the world's religions, these have been understood in many ways, Most commonly, they are supernatural beings with some kind of agency---they control the weather, for example,​

​

In traditional Buddhist folk religion, on the other hand, the devas are usually depicted as characters living in a number of other realms, separate from the human realm. They have their own problems and have no roles to play in the human realm. There is no point praying to them even if you believe in them because they're not going to do anything for you.​

​

Ah, we have Devas in Hinduism, too! Worship of them isn't common anymore, but once was.

​

Whatever sort of existence they may or may not have really doesn't matter to Buddhist practice. Many of the stories told about the devas have allegorical points, but you can be a devoted Buddhist for your whole life and never give them any thought.​

​

Sounds about right.

So, as far as Baha'is are concerned, are they any verses that support a belief in an Abrahamic type of God?

Then, there are the "manifestations" of God... Was Buddha a manifestation/messenger of that Abrahamic God? If so, then that means he was not like us, he was a special creation, a perfectly polished mirror, sent by God to tell us about that God and what that God wanted us to know.

But my question is... if Buddha became enlightened, and taught others how to become enlightened, then those people would become like Buddha. If Buddha was a manifestation, then "normal" people could never become like Buddha.

Any thoughts on any of this?

I don't have these beliefs about Buddha, or the Abrahamic God, so I don't have any real strong thoughts on this, no.

 

[Trailblazer]

What if Baha'i people stopped preaching on this forum?

What if Christian people stopped preaching on this forum?