What if we accepted each others Religion?

[Link]

I truly believe if I accept Bahai faith as even rationally possible, God would burn me in hell for believing him to be a liar and deceiver and believing he is so deceitful in speech. @Trailblazer you have not read Quran, but I maybe if you do, you might know what I mean how bad it gets. When I show Bahais verses saying day of judgment is this and that, they even sometimes deny what the original words are and make up a slightly different sentence. For example Surah Waqiah. It says no one will call it a lie or deny it when it occurs. Instead @InvestigateTruth creates similar sentence, but different. And this method of Bahais is through out Quran. Or if Rasool (s) says "there is no Nabi after me", they change it to "there is no Nabi after me out of my immediate successors (but the Mahdi who I talked about so much is still a Nabi)". Rasool (s) could've said "until the Mahdi" that is "There is no Nabi after me until the Mahdi", but that's not what he said. What is strange is that they say the 12th Successor is a Nabi as well as somehow son of Hassan Al-Askari. If you read the hadiths about names of 12 Imams, the son of Hassan Al-Askari is context of others being sons of previous Imams. So Baha'allah didn't deny those hadiths but said they should be metaphorically interpreted as him as the son of Hassan Al-askari.

I hate dishonesty. I'm all for Bahais discussing their faith, but I don't think they should hold to their faith but it's their choice. Buddhism has it's own paradigm, Hinduism it's own, Islam it's own, Christianity it's own... but I see Bahai Faith is build on ambiguity and interpreting Quran in a wild far fetch way and making sophistry out of language.

I think their interpretation should die off in the same all interpretations of Ali being an incarnation of God have died off. Even Alawites today don't believe him to be an incarnation though they have some weird beliefs like reincarnation that goes against Quran, they are not sticking to this Ali is God thing.

There is also a major contradiction with Bahai Faith. Bab and sometimes Baha'allah talked about Mohammad (s) as the finalizer in the Adamic cycle to explain the verse in Quran finalizing Mohammad (s) in terms of Nabis. But Baha'allah also talked about in terms that Mohammad (s) is the first Adam and he is every Prophet metaphorically, so is the final Nabi to come metaphorically as well. Well these two explanations do not go together. One relies that the finalizing be literal but only in a cycle. The other that is not what is meant, but a different metaphorically meaning and unity.

I asked @InvestigateTruth what set of words can be said to convince him that hell and paradise and day of judgment are literally what they are. He basically said he would not accept any words, since he doesn't think God would teach something irrational.

I've heard of Bahai Faith since high school and joined their forum when I was in high school. I asked them to interpret some verses about the day of judgement, I think about Pharaoh and a few others, got into a discussion about 3:7 and the need to stick to what is clear.

 

[CG Didymus]

I truly believe if I accept Bahai faith as even rationally possible, God would burn me in hell for believing him to be a liar and deceiver and believing he is so deceitful in speech. @Trailblazer you have not read Quran, but I maybe if you do, you might know what I mean how bad it gets. When I show Bahais verses saying day of judgment is this and that, they even sometimes deny what the original words are and make up a slightly different sentence. For example Surah Waqiah. It says no one will call it a lie or deny it when it occurs. Instead @InvestigateTruth creates similar sentence, but different. And this method of Bahais is through out Quran. Or if Rasool (s) says "there is no Nabi after me", they change it to "there is no Nabi after me out of my immediate successors (but the Mahdi who I talked about so much is still a Nabi)". Rasool (s) could've said "until the Mahdi" that is "There is no Nabi after me until the Mahdi", but that's not what he said. What is strange is that they say the 12th Successor is a Nabi as well as somehow son of Hassan Al-Askari. If you read the hadiths about names of 12 Imams, the son of Hassan Al-Askari is context of others being sons of previous Imams. So Baha'allah didn't deny those hadiths but said they should be metaphorically interpreted as him as the son of Hassan Al-askari.

I hate dishonesty. I'm all for Bahais discussing their faith, but I don't think they should hold to their faith but it's their choice. Buddhism has it's own paradigm, Hinduism it's own, Islam it's own, Christianity it's own... but I see Bahai Faith is build on ambiguity and interpreting Quran in a wild far fetch way and making sophistry out of language.

I think their interpretation should die off in the same all interpretations of Ali being an incarnation of God have died off. Even Alawites today don't believe him to be an incarnation though they have some weird beliefs like reincarnation that goes against Quran, they are not sticking to this Ali is God thing.

There is also a major contradiction with Bahai Faith. Bab and sometimes Baha'allah talked about Mohammad (s) as the finalizer in the Adamic cycle to explain the verse in Quran finalizing Mohammad (s) in terms of Nabis. But Baha'allah also talked about in terms that Mohammad (s) is the first Adam and he is every Prophet metaphorically, so is the final Nabi to come metaphorically as well. Well these two explanations do not go together. One relies that the finalizing be literal but only in a cycle. The other that is not what is meant, but a different metaphorically meaning and unity.

I asked @InvestigateTruth what set of words can be said to convince him that hell and paradise and day of judgment are literally what they are. He basically said he would not accept any words, since he doesn't think God would teach something irrational.

I've heard of Bahai Faith since high school and joined their forum when I was in high school. I asked them to interpret some verses about the day of judgement, I think about Pharaoh and a few others, got into a discussion about 3:7 and the need to stick to what is clear.

For those that don't know or don't care about the details in the Scriptures of the other religions, the Baha'i Faith is a very attractive religion. None of the other religions are wrong. They all were revealed by a messenger from God. As time passed, things got off a little and "God's" truth had to be renewed. Sounds so logical.

The world is now in a place where it can become united and needs to become united. For a Baha'i, they think they are helping build that "new" world order as the "old" world collapses. But then there are the details. There's too many sects, cults, and religious movements to not pay attention to the details. Since getting too deep into the details only leads people to see the contradictions between what the Baha'i Faith teaches and what the other religions believe, then it's not a place very many Baha'is want to go or can go.

They need to stick to their interpretations that some verses in the Scriptures of the other religions can't be taken literally... but must be take symbolically. They can even get away with saying that the Scriptures of the other religions weren't written by the prophet/founder, so we don't know if the words in those Scriptures are even accurate.

They can't do that with the Quran. But they still find ways to make things mean what they want them to mean. I don't know much of anything about the Quran, but I do know a little about the Bible and the NT. And I see how they handle those Scriptures.

Lots of things made to be symbolic. My explanation is just as bad or worse for those that believe in the Bible and the NT, because I think there's a very good chance that they were just made up. Like the flood was a story to get people to fear God, and to know that if they continued to do wrong, God could wipe them all out. What's the "symbolic" meaning? Could a "symbolic" flood story put the fear of God into anyone?

Not too many Muslims bother with the Baha'is. A year ago or so there was FireDragon, but he hasn't been around for a while. He also had some tough questions for the Baha'is. I like it, because when I first learned about the Baha'i Faith, I didn't know what to ask and what needed to be questioned. I assumed they were telling the truth. And of course, for them, they believe they are telling the truth. But can their truth hold up to questioning? Thanks for being here.

 

[Trailblazer]

They can even get away with saying that the Scriptures of the other religions weren't written by the prophet/founder, so we don't know if the words in those Scriptures are even accurate.

They can't do that with the Quran.

We can do that with the Qur'an because Muhammad did not write the Qur'an.

There is agreement among scholars that Muhammad himself did not write down the revelation.

Quran - Wikipedia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Prophet Muhammad never said that the Quran was written by Allah but the Quran was a revelation from Allah to Muhammad through the archangel Gabriel.

Prophet Muhammad himself did not write the Quran. The Quran states:

You ˹O Prophet˺ could not read any writing before this, nor could you write at all. Otherwise, the people of falsehood would have been suspicious. (Quran 29:48)

This verse was revealed in Makkah, Prophet Muhammad’s hometown, where almost everyone knew him because he was a member of Makkah’s elite families. If this verse is false, if Muhammad could read or write, then the revelation of this verse would have caused all the Muslims at that time to abandon Islam. So this statement cannot be wrong.

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-Mohammad-say-the-Quran-is-not-written-by-me-but-it-is-written-by-God-or-Allah

 

[Dawnofhope]

Since getting too deep into the details only leads people to see the contradictions between what the Baha'i Faith teaches and what the other religions believe, then it's not a place very many Baha'is want to go or can go.

They need to stick to their interpretations that some verses in the Scriptures of the other religions can't be taken literally... but must be take symbolically. They can even get away with saying that the Scriptures of the other religions weren't written by the prophet/founder, so we don't know if the words in those Scriptures are even accurate.

Not really. When looking at religions that have developed over thousands of years from vastly different cultures, there will of course be huge differences. So I doubt if too many Baha'is are troubled at all about the huge diversity of belief that makes up humanities religious experience. Of course there will be contradictions and inconsistencies. How could it be any other way?

 

[Dawnofhope]

I hate dishonesty. I'm all for Bahais discussing their faith, but I don't think they should hold to their faith but it's their choice. Buddhism has it's own paradigm, Hinduism it's own, Islam it's own, Christianity it's own... but I see Bahai Faith is build on ambiguity and interpreting Quran in a wild far fetch way and making sophistry out of language.

Regardless of who is right and who is wrong, Baha’is sincerely believe in what they believe. Labeling Baha’is 'dishonest' because they don't agree with your view of the Quran is as helpful as Baha’is calling you dishonest because you see things differently from us. Maybe English is not an easy language for you but you need to find a better way of coping with conflict than simply insulting those who don't see the world through your eyes.

 

[JustGeorge]

I wasn't a true ascetic in any traditional sense. I lived in an old country house that I payed rent for. I had a motorcycle that enabled me to travel into town once a week for supplies. Although sparsely populated there were a few locals I got to know and friends in town I kept in touch with.

That sounds ideal, really.

Some would visit. Some were extremely concerned that I had left medical school, disengaged and was now living in a remote region.

I could see the cause for concern, if the change was sudden.

In Hindu terms the aim was Moksha. As it was the ultimate goal of life I dedicated all my efforts to achieve it. I did not achieve it then, I have not achieved it since.

Ah, I understand. I greatly desired Moksha for a time... I've since realized I'll get it when I get it, and am mostly attracted to the idea of Bhakti.

I grew up Christian. I knew how to pray. There were no set prayers. I simply spoke from the heart.

There is no incompatibility with meditation as I have practiced it and prayers.

Same, I feel no incompatibility.

Yes

Sitting for long periods and chanting sutras in a foreign language.

I've sometimes struggled with the Sanskrit in my religion. For awhile, I was somewhat of a purist with it; Sanskrit only for religious purposes. Over time, I had to be honest with myself and admit that if I couldn't understand what I was saying, I got no real Bhakti out of it. On the other hand, the vibrations of the words themselves carry divine vibrations, and not reciting them properly may not bring desired results.

I've opted for the middle way. Sometimes it makes the most sense to use Sanskrit. Sometimes it makes sense to use English. For example, I find great peace in reciting "Om Hanumate Namah". However, as I work on memorizing the Hanuman Chalisa, I am doing so in English, as reciting stories about him makes me feel close to him. In Sanskrit, its too challenging, I don't know what I'm saying, and I don't feel any Bhakti from it.

Christianity was one way Jesus. Baha'i was One God with many paths. It was an easy choice then and remains an easy choice now.

I'm glad you found what you needed after a long struggle!

Thank you for sharing.

What does non-attachment look like for you?

Its hard. Being in the world, but not consumed with it. Admitted the temporary conditions of all things. Trying to find the unshakable center in the midst of it all.

Did the therapist help?

There was nothing to be helped! Maybe it helped my parents feel like they were doing the right thing with a kid they didn't really know what to do with. For me, it was an hour of awkward conversation with a stranger each week.

(Nothing against therapists; I used one for myself as an adult, but at that point I'd found myself real troubles, wasn't going because I was forced.)

How come you became Hindu and not Buddhist?

I actually called myself a 'Bugan' for awhile(which made one of the old men in the group laugh). A mix of Buddhism and Paganism! It may have been just that group, but Buddhism alone didn't fulfill my theistic nature, and Paganism alone didn't address my Eastern mindset.

Krishna brought me into Hinduism. Hinduism seems to offer the perfect balance for me.

In your opinion, how are the goals of Hinduism and Buddhism similar to Christianity and Islam? I'm curious to hear this as I often hear from those on both sides of the fence that they are not similar at all.

What they seem to have in common is the desire to stop suffering(whether that is through obtaining heavenly realms or finding Moksha) or a union(whether that's a merge, becoming, or simply dwelling near) with the divine. Some people desire both, some one or the other. Seems more of a personality thing, from my own impressions(which are just that).

Where they, and all religions differ, is the practices. While I feel the end goal tends to be similar for most(that I'm aware of), they vastly differ in their methods. I think its important to acknowledge that not all paths will work for all people and not all will find what they need in any one path. Essentially, that's why they're there, in my opinion. That all may find a way to grow which makes sense to them.

I have had a lot of dealings with bipolar illness through family, friends and professionally. It is certainly an area where mental health services can make a huge difference for better or worse. The right medication can be life changing for everyone. Manic episodes as a general rule are highly problematic even destructive.

It has been life changing... Those were destructive indeed. I remember one day he came out of the kitchen laughing and chucking ceramic dishes at the living room window(luckily he missed the window by a hair). Another time he went into an episode in the gym daycare and started chucking toys and chairs. They had to clear the room of children, lock him in, and page me. He caused a good bit of damage before we found any help.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I'm asking about the religions that we do know about. All sorts of beliefs about Gods and incarnations of Gods and great sages in Hinduism. Every religion had its Holy people. Why don't Baha'is recognized them as being this lower level of prophet, not a manifestation, but people that God or the Gods still communicated with? Were there some in Christianity? Like Peter or Paul? Or how about Francis of Assisi? Or people in Islam or Buddhism?

I get the feeling that Baha'is only use this as a way to explain the many prophets in Judaism. But, as I asked earlier, it creates a problem for the Baha'is... It makes a category of people that are not these special creations, the manifestation, but a people that aren't so perfect and very much like ordinary humans, yet they can receive direct communication from God.

There are saints and reformers in every religion like Ghandi and Guru Nanak who

was] inspired to reconcile the religions of Hinduism and Islám, the followers of which religions had been in violent conflict.... The Bahá'ís thus view Guru Nanak as a 'saint of the highest order' (Universal House of Justice).

There are others like Mother Theresa and Saint Francis. In Islam there are the Imams. In Buddhism these are considered saints Amitabha Buddha, Avalokiteśvara Bodhisattva and Mahāsthāmaprāpta Bodhisattva.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So, why not accept the Gods of all polytheistic religions? Like the Greek religion? It seems like the way a religion describes their God or Gods should be important. If they describe their God as being comprised of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, that is different than a religion has a main God and several lesser Gods.

But then again, what do Baha'is do with the Bible that has the God of Israel tell Elijah to kill the prophets of Baal?

Here's something about Baal...

According to Canaanite mythology, Baal was the son of El, the chief god, and Asherah, the goddess of the sea. Baal was considered the most powerful of all gods, eclipsing El, who was seen as rather weak and ineffective. In various battles Baal defeated Yamm, the god of the sea, and Mot, the god of death and the underworld. Baal’s sisters/consorts were Ashtoreth, a fertility goddess associated with the stars, and Anath, a goddess of love and war. The Canaanites worshiped Baal as the sun god and as the storm god—he is usually depicted holding a lightning bolt—who defeated enemies and produced crops...​

​

Not too bad so far... would you accept them as just worship their "supreme" God in their own way? And be okay with it? Well, let's go on...

​

They also worshiped him as a fertility god who provided children. Baal worship was rooted in sensuality and involved ritualistic prostitution in the temples. At times, appeasing Baal required human sacrifice, usually the firstborn of the one making the sacrifice (Jeremiah 19:5). The priests of Baal appealed to their god in rites of wild abandon which included loud, ecstatic cries and self-inflicted injury (1 Kings 18:28).​

​

Ritualistic prostitution and human sacrifice? Is that a religion that you'd be okay with? Would you go to one of their temples and participate in their rituals? I don't think you would. Yet... out of all the religions and beliefs about God still going on today, you would accept them and attend their rituals?

If so, try the snake handling sect of Christianity. Click on the link and see what you think. I would hope you wouldn't endorse their way of "expressing" their belief in God. There's just some religious movements and beliefs that are just whacked out crazy.

The Ancient Religion of Baal, and God’s Multiple Names

Abraham’s mission--ushering a new, unified monotheistic belief system into an idolatrous age--would ultimately require persistence and ingenuity...

bahaiteachings.org

 

[Link]

Baha’is sincerely believe in what they believe.

I think it is cognitive dissonance, the Quran shows a lot of humanity is caught in that.

 

[CG Didymus]

Not really. When looking at religions that have developed over thousands of years from vastly different cultures, there will of course be huge differences. So I doubt if too many Baha'is are troubled at all about the huge diversity of belief that makes up humanities religious experience. Of course there will be contradictions and inconsistencies. How could it be any other way?

The thing that some Baha'is have said is that, at least with the major religions, at first the messages from the manifestations were consistent and all taught the same "spiritual" teachings... that only the "social" laws were different. Then, over time, the messages got messed up.

The word used by those Baha'is is "originally" all religions taught the same thing. Sorry, but I doubt that very much. I'm okay with ancient people making up their religions and their Gods. Over time, some borrowed concepts from other people and cultures. Some people were conquered and forced to adopt the religion of the people that conquered them. And, almost like what Baha'is believe, I think religions have evolved over time.

But that's not the same as what Baha'is believe that one God sent his messengers in a progression that gradually taught them new things. For me, the Baha'i concept of progressive revelation to be true... the "original" messages would have had to have been completely mangled to end up with the various beliefs we've had through history. And people are still inventing new concepts and borrowing things from other religions to create a new one.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I've sometimes struggled with the Sanskrit in my religion. For awhile, I was somewhat of a purist with it; Sanskrit only for religious purposes. Over time, I had to be honest with myself and admit that if I couldn't understand what I was saying, I got no real Bhakti out of it. On the other hand, the vibrations of the words themselves carry divine vibrations, and not reciting them properly may not bring desired results.

I've opted for the middle way. Sometimes it makes the most sense to use Sanskrit. Sometimes it makes sense to use English. For example, I find great peace in reciting "Om Hanumate Namah". However, as I work on memorizing the Hanuman Chalisa, I am doing so in English, as reciting stories about him makes me feel close to him. In Sanskrit, its too challenging, I don't know what I'm saying, and I don't feel any Bhakti from it.

I recall the chanting of verses in Sanskrit took up about 20 - 30 minutes. I took a couple of languages had high school and they were my weakest subjects so it seemed like a big mountain to climb if I were to become a Tibetan Buddhist and be serious about it.

I enjoyed the teachings from the Tibetan Buddhist Monk. They had to be translated of course. The wisdom within any Buddhist teachings I've come across has always been easy to access and relatable.

We did have the Dalai Lama visit our city on a couple of occasions.

Great that you have taken the time to learn some sanskrit and memorization of sacred texts seems invaluable.

What is Bhakti for you?

I'm glad you found what you needed after a long struggle!

Becoming a Baha'i was the culmination of a 5 year search for spiritual truth. I felt I had arrived at my destination and still do.

Its hard. Being in the world, but not consumed with it. Admitted the temporary conditions of all things. Trying to find the unshakable center in the midst of it all.

I like that.

There was nothing to be helped! Maybe it helped my parents feel like they were doing the right thing with a kid they didn't really know what to do with. For me, it was an hour of awkward conversation with a stranger each week.

(Nothing against therapists; I used one for myself as an adult, but at that point I'd found myself real troubles, wasn't going because I was forced.)

Usually people are in therapy because they want to be, not because their parents find their children a bit odd.

I've sought psychotherapy on a few occasions at very different stages in life and its been helpful.

I actually called myself a 'Bugan' for awhile(which made one of the old men in the group laugh). A mix of Buddhism and Paganism! It may have been just that group, but Buddhism alone didn't fulfill my theistic nature, and Paganism alone didn't address my Eastern mindset.

Krishna brought me into Hinduism. Hinduism seems to offer the perfect balance for me.

Krishna/Vishnu seems the most relatable of all the deities in Hinduism. I appreciate the Hare Krishnas are just a small group of Krishna devotees and that's not your Sampradaya. It is great you have Krishna in your life and you have found the best path for you.

What they seem to have in common is the desire to stop suffering(whether that is through obtaining heavenly realms or finding Moksha) or a union(whether that's a merge, becoming, or simply dwelling near) with the divine. Some people desire both, some one or the other. Seems more of a personality thing, from my own impressions(which are just that).

Where they, and all religions differ, is the practices. While I feel the end goal tends to be similar for most(that I'm aware of), they vastly differ in their methods. I think its important to acknowledge that not all paths will work for all people and not all will find what they need in any one path. Essentially, that's why they're there, in my opinion. That all may find a way to grow which makes sense to them.

I agree and I like the way you have explained it.

It has been life changing... Those were destructive indeed. I remember one day he came out of the kitchen laughing and chucking ceramic dishes at the living room window(luckily he missed the window by a hair). Another time he went into an episode in the gym daycare and started chucking toys and chairs. They had to clear the room of children, lock him in, and page me. He caused a good bit of damage before we found any help.

Great that you have found the right medication for a very challenging disorder.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I think it is cognitive dissonance, the Quran shows a lot of humanity is caught in that.

I suspect a lot of what being a Shi'i Muslim for you, is Persian culture, not the Quran or the Imams. Its the same deal with what Christianity has become where I live. Our culture has an enormous influence on the way we approach matters of religion and belief. The Quran of course was revealed over a 22 year period over the seventh century in a culture and world very different from the one that exists today.

Where I live, depriving citizens of their basic human rights because of their religion is unthinkable. In Iran it is the reality for Baha'is. As an Iranian are you justifying why depriving Baha'is of their rights might be a reasonable? Are you proposing the Bahaís are heading to hell anyway?

 

[Link]

I suspect a lot of what being a Shi'i Muslim for you, is Persian culture, not the Quran or the Imams. Its the same deal with what Christianity has become where I live. Our culture has an enormous influence on the way we approach matters of religion and belief. The Quran of course was revealed over a 22 year period over the seventh century in a culture and world very different from the one that exists today.

Where I live, depriving citizens of their basic human rights because of their religion is unthinkable. In Iran it is the reality for Baha'is. As an Iranian are you justifying why depriving Baha'is of their rights might be a reasonable? Are you proposing the Bahaís are heading to hell anyway?

I don't have Iranian citizenship. I agree with a lot of Islam is changed by culture or wrong understanding of Quran or false hadiths.

As for Bahai situation in Iran, I don't know. When I'm being told your religion sees the oppression Muslims face as all punishment from God, I think perhaps it's more complicated then just being a religion. Plus Bahais worked with the Shah against the Shiites. So it's far more complicated.

Freedom of religion should be allowed, but here if you were to say I want to sacrifice babies (in Canada where I live), in name of a religion, no one would allow it. If you begin to tell people and perceive it that their political situation and oppression is punishment from God, it maybe, it's more complicated.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think it is cognitive dissonance, the Quran shows a lot of humanity is caught in that.

"A lot of humanity" would include Muslims, who are part of humanity.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The thing that some Baha'is have said is that, at least with the major religions, at first the messages from the manifestations were consistent and all taught the same "spiritual" teachings... that only the "social" laws were different. Then, over time, the messages got messed up.

There are no doubt commonalities. Be truthful, compassionate and just. I can't see any of the major world religions not teaching basic virtues.

The conditions of each community were vastly different if we compare Buddha, Jesus and Muhammad. These are arguably the three most important religious figures whose influence on world history and civilization is clear today.

We have 1,200 years if we are not consider the span of time from the birth of the Buddha to the passing of Muhammad. Then we have a further 1,400 years to consider their influence until the modern day.

The phenomenon of religion is very complicated. One observation is that Islam emerged at a time when Christianity and Judaism were well established. Muhammad made extensive references to Jesus, Moses, the Gospel and Torah. Besides there are many other Prophets that are mentioned in both the Quran and Torah.

When Buddha emerged, there was no Christianity or Islam and Judaism if it was known by any of the educated people of Buddha's community was not a consideration. We need to consider Hinduism as the major influence. The word Hinduism of course didn't exist back then and what Hinduism looked like then and what it is now has changed greatly.

There's always a need for simple explanations and quick sound bite explanations but the reality is, the phenomenon of religion is complex.

The word used by those Baha'is is "originally" all religions taught the same thing. Sorry, but I doubt that very much. I'm okay with ancient people making up their religions and their Gods. Over time, some borrowed concepts from other people and cultures. Some people were conquered and forced to adopt the religion of the people that conquered them. And, almost like what Baha'is believe, I think religions have evolved over time.

Its exceedingly difficult if not impossible to know with any certainty what Buddha and Krishna originally taught. As they emerged in complete isolation from the Abrahamic Faiths, the language and paradigms are vastly different. Beyond that, as we both agree, the religions evolved over time. One group conquering another has been a central theme in human history and coercion in matters of culture and religion is a real thing.

But that's not the same as what Baha'is believe that one God sent his messengers in a progression that gradually taught them new things. For me, the Baha'i concept of progressive revelation to be true... the "original" messages would have had to have been completely mangled to end up with the various beliefs we've had through history. And people are still inventing new concepts and borrowing things from other religions to create a new one.

The concept of progressive revelation is simply looking at how one religious founder builds on another. History is much more complex and nuanced as are the Baha'i writings.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I don't have Iranian citizenship. I agree with a lot of Islam is changed by culture or wrong understanding of Quran or false hadiths.

Which country did you grow up in @Link ?

As for Bahai situation in Iran, I don't know. When I'm being told your religion sees the oppression Muslims face as all punishment from God, I think perhaps it's more complicated then just being a religion. Plus Bahais worked with the Shah against the Shiites. So it's far more complicated.

Muslims have freedom to practice their religion where I live (New Zealand). Its the same in Canada.

I've no idea what you are talking about in regards the Shah of Iran but wasn't the Iranian revolution 1979. Are you saying that because Baha'is helped the Shah over 45 years ago, then it justifies persecuting them? It is a common tactic of the Iranian government to link the Baha'is to some unpopular political group to inflame hatred and misunderstanding.

Freedom of religion should be allowed, but here if you were to say I want to sacrifice babies (in Canada where I live), in name of a religion, no one would allow it. If you begin to tell people and perceive it that their political situation and oppression is punishment from God, it maybe, it's more complicated.

I'm not sure why you are comparing the Baha'is to an imaginary religion that sacrifices babies.

 

[Eli G]

The God of Abraham and Jesus Christ is not a God who wants his worshipers to make pacts with worshipers of other gods.

Exo. 23:32 You must not make a covenant with them or their gods.

I have never read in the Bible that the Israelites were allowed to make alliances with the worshipers of Baal or any other god, much less accept the religious practices they had. Nor do I see that the Bible speaks of an ecumenical meeting to see how an agreement can be reached between different religions and accept the beliefs and practices of others.

2 Cor. 6:14 Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? 15 Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Beʹli·al? Or what does a believer share in common with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I will reside among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” 17 “‘Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take you in.’” 18 “‘And I will become a father to you, and you will become sons and daughters to me,’ says Jehovah, the Almighty.”

Any idea about ecumenism is alien to the living and true God.

Is. 52:11 Turn away, turn away, get out of there, touch nothing unclean!
Get out from the midst of her, keep yourselves clean,
You who are carrying the utensils of Jehovah.

 

[Link]

Which country did you grow up in @Link ?

Muslims have freedom to practice their religion where I live (New Zealand). Its the same in Canada.

I've no idea what you are talking about in regards the Shah of Iran but wasn't the Iranian revolution 1979. Are you saying that because Baha'is helped the Shah over 45 years ago, then it justifies persecuting them? It is a common tactic of the Iranian government to link the Baha'is to some unpopular political group to inflame hatred and misunderstanding.

I'm not sure why you are comparing the Baha'is to an imaginary religion that sacrifices babies.

Salam

Canada. I'm not responsible over security issues in Iran nor have enough information. However, what I do know is from what has been told to me by @InvestigateTruth as far interpretation of Muslims being punished by God and their political situation is seen as that.

If today in Israel a religion comes out saying the holocaust was a punishment from God, would they allow it as an official religion?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Salam

Canada. I'm not responsible over security issues in Iran nor have enough information. However, what I do know is from what has been told to me by @InvestigateTruth as far interpretation of Muslims being punished by God and their political situation is seen as that.

If today in Israel a religion comes out saying the holocaust was a punishment from God, would they allow it as an official religion?

@Link

I said those things based on Hadithes and the Quran.

 

[Link]

@Link

I said those things based on Hadithes and the Quran.

You also say day of judgment is a Messenger appearing, Angels and Jinn are humans, and miracles are all metaphors, per your understanding. You are lost in a web of misinterpretation and it's hard to help you.