What if we accepted each others Religion?

[JustGeorge]

What if the sky was made of concrete?

 

[Dawnofhope]

What if the oceans rose and there was no more land for us to stand on? What if, what if, what if.....

 

[JustGeorge]

What if the oceans rose and there was no more land for us to stand on? What if, what if, what if.....

We'd learn to swim... (learn to swim, learn to swim...)

 

[loverofhumanity]

Which of all the people that Baha'is claim are manifestations of God would say, "I am God"?

With the Baha'i beliefs that the manifestations are like "perfectly" polished mirrors that reflect God makes it possible for Baha'is to believe such a thing. But would a Jew accept that from any of the people in their religion that Baha'is say are manifestations? Then with some religions they do believe that some of the people in their religion are God. But, with them, Baha'is don't agree. Baha'is believe those people have misinterpreted their Scriptures.

And somewhere in these threads of yours, we talked about the "minor" or "lesser' prophets. Other than in Judaism, who do Baha'is consider to be these lesser prophets? Give a few names, I don't know if I've ever seen a name of one of these lower-level prophets that wasn't a prophet in Judaism.

This list I think covers them.

Twelve Minor Prophets - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[loverofhumanity]

What if Baha'i people stopped preaching on this forum?

There have been many religious wars, hatreds and prejudices. Is this acceptable? That people kill and destroy and shun one another because of religion or should religions reconcile their differences and set an example before humanity?

Call it preaching but it’s not, it’s because I care and feel that religions need to make a greater effort to establish peace. So promoting peace and harmony between religions I believe that it is in the best interests of humanity and is long overdue.

Do these ideas exist among and between religions that they do not need to be spoken about online in forums or publicly?

Only last week I had a Hindu, Christian and Baha’i in a devotional gathering. We all said prayers. Then the Christian later phoned me and objected to the Hindu praying to Shiva because Shiva is a false God. So there are prejudices due to ignorance. Of course for us Baha’is all are most welcome to pray or/and read from their scriptures at our devotional meetings. We discussed this later and we decided not to tell the Hindu not to pray when the Christian attends as we all need to learn tolerance of diversity and that can take time.

People conceal their prejudices by retreating to their own group and like to think of themselves as decent and unbiased until they are confronted with diversity, by others who see things differently and this can be very challenging.

 

[CG Didymus]

This list I think covers them.

Twelve Minor Prophets - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There aren't any of these lower-level prophets in any other religion accept Judaism? So, Baha'is believe that there is the higher level of prophets, the manifestations, that are like the Sun. And just within Judaism there is Adam, Noah, Abraham and Moses that are all manifestations? They are all like the Sun? They all founded a religion and brought a book and perfectly reflected God? Then there are the next level down. The prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah and so on. They are like the moon, reflecting the light from the Sun, the manifestations?

But no other religion has those types of prophets?

 

[CG Didymus]

There have been many religious wars, hatreds and prejudices. Is this acceptable? That people kill and destroy and shun one another because of religion or should religions reconcile their differences and set an example before humanity?

Call it preaching but it’s not, it’s because I care and feel that religions need to make a greater effort to establish peace. So promoting peace and harmony between religions I believe that it is in the best interests of humanity and is long overdue.

Do these ideas exist among and between religions that they do not need to be spoken about online in forums or publicly?

Only last week I had a Hindu, Christian and Baha’i in a devotional gathering. We all said prayers. Then the Christian later phoned me and objected to the Hindu praying to Shiva because Shiva is a false God. So there are prejudices due to ignorance. Of course for us Baha’is all are most welcome to pray or/and read from their scriptures at our devotional meetings. We discussed this later and we decided not to tell the Hindu not to pray when the Christian attends as we all need to learn tolerance of diversity and that can take time.

People conceal their prejudices by retreating to their own group and like to think of themselves as decent and unbiased until they are confronted with diversity, by others who see things differently and this can be very challenging.

Do Baha'is believe Shiva is a real God? If so, where in the Baha'is writings does it say that? And if so, what has been the problem with those Hindus who are followers of Shiva and don't believe in Krishna?

Oh, and are you okay with a Christian that believes in the Trinity and prays to Jesus as being God? But even if you are, is it something that the Baha'i Faith is okay with?

Pretty soon there is not going to be a religion or a concept of God that you aren't going to be able to accept.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do these ideas exist among and between religions that they do not need to be spoken about online in forums or publicly?

No, they do not.
However, everything shared by Christians on this forum already exists among various Christians denominations, so why the need to share them here?

Only last week I had a Hindu, Christian and Baha’i in a devotional gathering. We all said prayers. Then the Christian later phoned me and objected to the Hindu praying to Shiva because Shiva is a false God. So there are prejudices due to ignorance. Of course for us Baha’is all are most welcome to pray or/and read from their scriptures at our devotional meetings. We discussed this later and we decided not to tell the Hindu not to pray when the Christian attends as we all need to learn tolerance of diversity and that can take time.

You are braver than I am.
Last year when I attended a GriefShare group sponsored by Christians I did not reveal my identity as a Baha'i.
In the session in heaven, they made it perfectly clear that only Christians go to heaven.

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh, and are you okay with a Christian that believes in the Trinity and prays to Jesus as being God? But even if you are, is it something that the Baha'i Faith is okay with?

What do you mean by "okay with" ? As you know those are not Baha'i beliefs but Baha'is are okay with others holding those beliefs.
It is not the business of the Baha'i Faith what beliefs are held by other religious groups.
We have our beliefs, they have theirs. Why is that so difficult to understand?

 

[JustGeorge]

I had a period of 5 years in my early 20s searching for truth. I was really attracted to the idea about reaching a higher level of consciousness through yoga and meditation to escape the cycle of birth and death. Buddhism appeared to have similar concepts with Nirvana. I retreated into the wilderness for 2 1/2 years and would meditate each day. I really wanted to find a guru to assist. I felt happy at the time to leave the world behind as I knew. There were no Hindu community activities open in my city. The Hare Krishnas would travel down every few months. When I rejoined the wider community, I attended meetings at the Tibetan Buddhist Centre. With all the chanting in Sanskrit it was a little foreign.

In the end I became a Baha'i. It was accepting of Buddhism and Hinduism as valid spirital paths and that was important.

How did you get from Eastern traditions to Baha'i? Were there any 'stops' in between?

Sounds great. The issue of atheist Buddha vs theistic Buddha was never an issue during any of my contacts with Buddhists.

Check out the Eternal Buddha:

Common people believe that Buddha was born a prince and learned the way to Enlightenment as a mendicant; actually, Buddha has always existed in the world which is without beginning or end. As the Eternal Buddha, He has known all people and applied all methods of relief.

There is no falsity in the Eternal Dharma which Buddha taught, for He knows all things in the world as they are, and He teaches them to all people.

Indeed, it is very difficult to understand the world as it is, for, although it seems true, it is not, and, although it seems false, it is not. Ignorant people can not know the truth concerning the world.

https://www.bdk.or.jp/pdf/buddhist-scriptures/02_english/TheTeachingofBuddha.pdf

I first came across this book was in a hotel in Kyoto, Japan over 20 years ago. Its like having a bible in your hotel room in the West. It has echos of the opening verses from the Gospel of John.

Seems interesting! Thanks!

Its hard when people are a danger to themselves and of course they may benefit from a brief admission to keep them safe. To what extent publicly funded psychiatric services assist with the underlying psychological issue is another matter.

Do you see any hope in these kinds of issues being improved in the decades to come?

I'm an older guy on a motorcycle using muscles in a way I'm not used to. A little sore and really tired for a few days after. The motorcycle has been great for my son.

I'm glad he is benefiting from it(and hope you get some rest).

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No, they do not.
However, everything shared by Christians on this forum already exists among various Christians denominations, so why the need to share them here?

You are braver than I am.
Last year when I attended a GriefShare group sponsored by Christians I did not reveal my identity as a Baha'i.
In the session in heaven, they made it perfectly clear that only Christians go to heaven.

You missed a heck of a lot of fun.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

How did you get from Eastern traditions to Baha'i? Were there any 'stops' in between?

Good question. After a couple of years of exploring eastern religion and living a semi-reclusive lifestyle (like a hermit) I tried atheism. All the contradictions within religion, the inability to find a guru and my personal failure to achieve anything that remotely resembled a higher level of consciousness led to despair. It was the worst time of my life. I became really depressed.

Once I started praying again life picked and things just fell into place. I moved back into town and started attending meetings. Saturday night was the Baha'is, Sunday mornings the Buddhists and Sunday evenings the Baptists.

Someone commented my weekend schedule would freak a lot of people out. I didn't really think about it that way. I had to have ongoing contact with the different communities and from there intuition helped decide which was the best path.

Had I have not become a Baha'i then I would have become a Christian but being on the fringes. Becoming a Tibetan Buddhist wouldn't have worked.

I find your eclectic beliefs and practices interesting. Westerners embracing Eastern religions and philosophy is an intriguing phenomenon. I like Hinduism and Buddhism and many of the people who try to live it.

How do you bridge the East/West gap? Is it something you feel any need to bridge at all?

Do you see any hope in these kinds of issues being improved in the decades to come?

Whenever I feel disheartened about the state of mental health services, I remember it wasn't that long ago that frontal lobotomy was seen as therapeutic and ECT was widely practiced for many conditions. People were often institutionalized and put in psychiatric facilities against their will. So change for the better is possible. Otherwise there hasn't been much I've experienced in the last 25 years of being a medical doctor that gives me joy or hope when contemplating the state of mental health services.

As a consumer of such services for your middle child, do you feel any hope or joy when it comes to the services you've received or interactions you've had?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Do Baha'is believe Shiva is a real God? If so, where in the Baha'is writings does it say that? And if so, what has been the problem with those Hindus who are followers of Shiva and don't believe in Krishna?

Oh, and are you okay with a Christian that believes in the Trinity and prays to Jesus as being God? But even if you are, is it something that the Baha'i Faith is okay with?

Pretty soon there is not going to be a religion or a concept of God that you aren't going to be able to accept.

Baha’is believe in only one God and that although people may call Him by different names He is still the same God and people express worship in their own way. So I’m very happy to have people over who pray to Shiva and Krishna and Jesus like last week. My best friends are Catholics and when they visited recently from Melbourne they dropped in and they said their prayers to Jesus and we had lunch together.

There can be no doubt whatever that the peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God.(Baha’u’llah)

 

[loverofhumanity]

There aren't any of these lower-level prophets in any other religion accept Judaism? So, Baha'is believe that there is the higher level of prophets, the manifestations, that are like the Sun. And just within Judaism there is Adam, Noah, Abraham and Moses that are all manifestations? They are all like the Sun? They all founded a religion and brought a book and perfectly reflected God? Then there are the next level down. The prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah and so on. They are like the moon, reflecting the light from the Sun, the manifestations?

But no other religion has those types of prophets?

We don’t know that because all our records even though some very scant only go back to the Adamic Cycle but what about before that? For sure there were minor prophets as well as Manifestations we have no knowledge of.

Thus there have been many holy Manifestations of God. One thousand years ago, two hundred thousand years ago, one million years ago the bounty of God was flowing, the radiance of God was shining, the dominion of God was existing.
‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Foundations of World Unity, p. 108

 

[JustGeorge]

Good question. After a couple of years of exploring eastern religion and living a semi-reclusive lifestyle (like a hermit) I tried atheism. All the contradictions within religion, the inability to find a guru and my personal failure to achieve anything that remotely resembled a higher level of consciousness led to despair. It was the worst time of my life. I became really depressed.

When you retreated into the wilderness, how did you meet basic needs?

That does sound awful. What made you decide to seek that higher level of consciousness? Do you feel you found it now?

Once I started praying again life picked and things just fell into place. I moved back into town and started attending meetings. Saturday night was the Baha'is, Sunday mornings the Buddhists and Sunday evenings the Baptists.

What prayers did you start with? Did you find prayer and meditation incompatible together?

Someone commented my weekend schedule would freak a lot of people out. I didn't really think about it that way. I had to have ongoing contact with the different communities and from there intuition helped decide which was the best path.

I think your schedule sounded interesting. Did you find all three groups embraced you?

Had I have not become a Baha'i then I would have become a Christian but being on the fringes. Becoming a Tibetan Buddhist wouldn't have worked.

What did you find about Tibetan Buddhism that didn't work?

How did Baha'i win out over Christianity?

I find your eclectic beliefs and practices interesting. Westerners embracing Eastern religions and philosophy is an intriguing phenomenon. I like Hinduism and Buddhism and many of the people who try to live it.

I think I was born with the Eastern mindset. I started talking about the path of non-attachment as being the preferable way to live as a teen... and I got taken to a therapist. I was just seen as an eccentric... It wasn't until I stumbled into that Buddhist group years later that I learned I wasn't nuts, I had Eastern leanings.

How do you bridge the East/West gap? Is it something you feel any need to bridge at all?

I don't think I really understood Western traditions until I embraced the Eastern ones, and was able to go back and reflect on them. Still, my expertise in the Western traditions are weaker.

I haven't always found the East/West terminology useful. It leaves out so much of the world... Also, I find when the trappings(cultures/practices) start to fall away, the religions look more and more similar, or have similar goals.

Whenever I feel disheartened about the state of mental health services, I remember it wasn't that long ago that frontal lobotomy was seen as therapeutic and ECT was widely practiced for many conditions. People were often institutionalized and put in psychiatric facilities against their will. So change for the better is possible. Otherwise there hasn't been much I've experienced in the last 25 years of being a medical doctor that gives me joy or hope when contemplating the state of mental health services.

As a consumer of such services for your middle child, do you feel any hope or joy when it comes to the services you've received or interactions you've had?

I felt more despair than hope... the fact that he's autistic worked against us. It was assumed that because he's autistic, autism is the problem. NO! This isn't normal, this is not autism... I got told by one psychiatrist that "its just a little ADHD. Your daughter(she refused to call him a boy, due to his long hair) just needs to learn to sit still". No, this isn't ADHD... he was going into episodes that would last hours; his face and voice would change. He'd become extremely violent while laughing strangely... He'd stopped sleeping and eating normally.

The moment of hope came when we drove him to the university ER and they said "lets try a bipolar med. This doesn't sound autism related." That helped. Big time. It took a month or two to work him up to the proper dose, but we're now mania free. He still has some major behavioral issues, but I'm confident we can work on those, now that he has control over his body and mind again.

 

[CG Didymus]

We don’t know that because all our records even though some very scant only go back to the Adamic Cycle but what about before that? For sure there were minor prophets as well as Manifestations we have no knowledge of.

Thus there have been many holy Manifestations of God. One thousand years ago, two hundred thousand years ago, one million years ago the bounty of God was flowing, the radiance of God was shining, the dominion of God was existing.
‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Foundations of World Unity, p. 108

I'm asking about the religions that we do know about. All sorts of beliefs about Gods and incarnations of Gods and great sages in Hinduism. Every religion had its Holy people. Why don't Baha'is recognized them as being this lower level of prophet, not a manifestation, but people that God or the Gods still communicated with? Were there some in Christianity? Like Peter or Paul? Or how about Francis of Assisi? Or people in Islam or Buddhism?

I get the feeling that Baha'is only use this as a way to explain the many prophets in Judaism. But, as I asked earlier, it creates a problem for the Baha'is... It makes a category of people that are not these special creations, the manifestation, but a people that aren't so perfect and very much like ordinary humans, yet they can receive direct communication from God.

 

[CG Didymus]

Baha’is believe in only one God and that although people may call Him by different names He is still the same God and people express worship in their own way.

So, why not accept the Gods of all polytheistic religions? Like the Greek religion? It seems like the way a religion describes their God or Gods should be important. If they describe their God as being comprised of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, that is different than a religion has a main God and several lesser Gods.

But then again, what do Baha'is do with the Bible that has the God of Israel tell Elijah to kill the prophets of Baal?

Here's something about Baal...

According to Canaanite mythology, Baal was the son of El, the chief god, and Asherah, the goddess of the sea. Baal was considered the most powerful of all gods, eclipsing El, who was seen as rather weak and ineffective. In various battles Baal defeated Yamm, the god of the sea, and Mot, the god of death and the underworld. Baal’s sisters/consorts were Ashtoreth, a fertility goddess associated with the stars, and Anath, a goddess of love and war. The Canaanites worshiped Baal as the sun god and as the storm god—he is usually depicted holding a lightning bolt—who defeated enemies and produced crops...​

​

Not too bad so far... would you accept them as just worship their "supreme" God in their own way? And be okay with it? Well, let's go on...

​

They also worshiped him as a fertility god who provided children. Baal worship was rooted in sensuality and involved ritualistic prostitution in the temples. At times, appeasing Baal required human sacrifice, usually the firstborn of the one making the sacrifice (Jeremiah 19:5). The priests of Baal appealed to their god in rites of wild abandon which included loud, ecstatic cries and self-inflicted injury (1 Kings 18:28).​

​

Ritualistic prostitution and human sacrifice? Is that a religion that you'd be okay with? Would you go to one of their temples and participate in their rituals? I don't think you would. Yet... out of all the religions and beliefs about God still going on today, you would accept them and attend their rituals?

If so, try the snake handling sect of Christianity. Click on the link and see what you think. I would hope you wouldn't endorse their way of "expressing" their belief in God. There's just some religious movements and beliefs that are just whacked out crazy.

 

[exchemist]

What if Christian people stopped preaching on this forum?

Oh I agree. The ones that do (chiefly creationists, JWs, 7th Day Adventists etc.) are not the type I have natural sympathy with, as you may have noticed.

 

[Dawnofhope]

When you retreated into the wilderness, how did you meet basic needs?

That does sound awful. What made you decide to seek that higher level of consciousness? Do you feel you found it now?

I wasn't a true ascetic in any traditional sense. I lived in an old country house that I payed rent for. I had a motorcycle that enabled me to travel into town once a week for supplies. Although sparsely populated there were a few locals I got to know and friends in town I kept in touch with.

Some would visit. Some were extremely concerned that I had left medical school, disengaged and was now living in a remote region.

In Hindu terms the aim was Moksha. As it was the ultimate goal of life I dedicated all my efforts to achieve it. I did not achieve it then, I have not achieved it since.

What prayers did you start with? Did you find prayer and meditation incompatible together?

I grew up Christian. I knew how to pray. There were no set prayers. I simply spoke from the heart.

There is no incompatibility with meditation as I have practiced it and prayers.

I think your schedule sounded interesting. Did you find all three groups embraced you?

Yes

What did you find about Tibetan Buddhism that didn't work?

Sitting for long periods and chanting sutras in a foreign language.

How did Baha'i win out over Christianity?

Christianity was one way Jesus. Baha'i was One God with many paths. It was an easy choice then and remains an easy choice now.

think I was born with the Eastern mindset. I started talking about the path of non-attachment as being the preferable way to live as a teen... and I got taken to a therapist. I was just seen as an eccentric... It wasn't until I stumbled into that Buddhist group years later that I learned I wasn't nuts, I had Eastern leanings.

Thank you for sharing.

What does non-attachment look like for you?

Did the therapist help?

How come you became Hindu and not Buddhist?

don't think I really understood Western traditions until I embraced the Eastern ones, and was able to go back and reflect on them. Still, my expertise in the Western traditions are weaker.

I haven't always found the East/West terminology useful. It leaves out so much of the world... Also, I find when the trappings(cultures/practices) start to fall away, the religions look more and more similar, or have similar goals.

In your opinion, how are the goals of Hinduism and Buddhism similar to Christianity and Islam? I'm curious to hear this as I often hear from those on both sides of the fence that they are not similar at all.

felt more despair than hope... the fact that he's autistic worked against us. It was assumed that because he's autistic, autism is the problem. NO! This isn't normal, this is not autism... I got told by one psychiatrist that "its just a little ADHD. Your daughter(she refused to call him a boy, due to his long hair) just needs to learn to sit still". No, this isn't ADHD... he was going into episodes that would last hours; his face and voice would change. He'd become extremely violent while laughing strangely... He'd stopped sleeping and eating normally.

The moment of hope came when we drove him to the university ER and they said "lets try a bipolar med. This doesn't sound autism related." That helped. Big time. It took a month or two to work him up to the proper dose, but we're now mania free. He still has some major behavioral issues, but I'm confident we can work on those, now that he has control over his body and mind again.

I have had a lot of dealings with bipolar illness through family, friends and professionally. It is certainly an area where mental health services can make a huge difference for better or worse. The right medication can be life changing for everyone. Manic episodes as a general rule are highly problematic even destructive.

 

[Trailblazer]

There can be no doubt whatever that the peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God.(Baha’u’llah)

I'm still half asleep, but thanks for reminding me why I am a a Baha'i!