What is a work?

[waitasec]

From 'give' to 'offer', hmmm.

what are you talking about?

where did i ever say work consisted of an offer?

 

[Walkntune]

Ephesians 2:8-9 shows us that we are saved by grace, not by works.
According to the Bible, what constitutes a work?
What was the author of Ephesians referring to?
Does the popular modern-day definition "a work is anything you do" have Biblical support or is it accepted only because it's been handed down for so long that no one questions it?

A work is that which is of the flesh. It does not produce that which brings life but that which brings death.A work of the spirit is actually called fruit of the Spirit because it produces that which is good and brings life.

 

[Shermana]

that which brings life

“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”

Matthew 19:17

 

[Walkntune]

“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life,obey the commandments.”

Matthew 19:17

Why do you think Jesus asked why do you ask me about what is good?

 

[waitasec]

Why do you think Jesus asked why do you ask me about what is good?

if i may,
jesus obviously contradicted himself

 

[Walkntune]

if i may,
jesus obviously contradicted himself

It would appear that way to someone with the mindset of a pharisee or a Sadducee.

 

[waitasec]

It would appear that way to someone with the mindset of a pharisee or a Sadducee.

can you elaborate...?

“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life,obey the commandments.”

Matthew 19:17

either jesus says:
1. no one can be good...which is an all out fallacy
2. obeying the commandments is good (while no one is good)
3. obeying the commandments isn't necessarily doing good

 

[Walkntune]

can you elaborate...?

“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life,obey the commandments.”

Matthew 19:17

either jesus says:
1. no one can be good...which is an all out fallacy
2. obeying the commandments is good (while no one is good)
3. obeying the commandments isn't necessarily doing good

17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

The man kept the commandments yet he was not good.
18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Isiah 64
6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

 

[waitasec]

17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

The man kept the commandments yet he was not good.
18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Isiah 64
6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

ok, i think i understand what your oblique post is implying- no one is good...
which would mean everyone is always doing something bad all the time...
bzzzzz....wrong!

the way i see it, every choice is an opportunity...
either you make the right one or not...it's moment to moment
and what you do defines your character...that's how it works in my world.

 

[Walkntune]

ok, i think i understand what your oblique post is implying- no one is good...
which would mean everyone is always doing something bad all the time...
bzzzzz....wrong!

the way i see it, every choice is an opportunity...
either you make the right one or not...it's moment to moment
and what you do defines your character...that's how it works in my world.

We just have a different standard of what is Good. While you compare your understanding of what is good to that which is bad, I compare my understanding of good to that which is gooder!
Jesus wanted Him to recognize who he is!
Just for the record, you can make the same exact choice with different intentions beind the choice making it good or bad or gooder!

 

[waitasec]

We just have a different standard of what is Good. While you compare your understanding of what is good to that which is bad, I compare my understanding of good to that which is gooder!
Jesus wanted Him to recognize who he is!

huh?
so jesus meant to say no one is gooder?

Just for the record, you can make the same exact choice with different intentions beind the choice making it good or bad or gooder!

if someone receives assistance based on someone else's selfish intentions...
the same would happen if someone was assisted based on someone else's selfless intentions...but who cares about that...we are not to judge intentions are we...

 

[Walkntune]

huh?
so jesus meant to say no one is gooder?

I would take it more as, compared to the One who is gooder no one is good.

]if someone receives assistance based on someone else's selfish intentions...
the same would happen if someone was assisted based on someone else's selfless intentions...but who cares about that...we are not to judge intentions are we...

There is one who is Gooder who judges all!

 

[waitasec]

I would take it more as, compared to the One who is gooder no one is good.

edit:
god says, every inclination is evil in the human heart...gen 8:21 (NIV)

i take that as, it is impossible to be good...not to mention being gooder...
i still don't know what you mean by being gooder

There is one who is Gooder who judges all!

goodness is ultimately judged in the eye of the beholder.

 

[waitasec]

so are we talking about gooder works.... walkntune?

 

[Walkntune]

Sorry I had to leave for a few. OK I will break this down.

6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Compared to God there is noone good.Even if you throw a bunch of apples in with some rotten ones they eventual all will rot.The flesh of man eventual rots.

if someone receives assistance based on someone else's selfish intentions...
the same would happen if someone was assisted based on someone else's selfless intentions...but who cares about that...we are not to judge intentions are we...

Sure God will use Satan to do his work!
Romans 8

King James Version (KJV)


28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

It is still the work of the ill intentions of the person that brings death to that person but was not a fruit of righteousness that would bring life.

i take that as, it is impossible to be good...not to mention being gooder...

17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Jesus makes a comparison asking him why he was calling him good.
Jesus was crucified for the very accusation of calling himself God.
God is gooder!

goodness is ultimately judged in the eye of the beholder.

Goodness will ultimately be judged on the consequences it reaps.

so are we talking about gooder works.... walkntune?

Galatians 5
whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

 

[waitasec]

Sorry I had to leave for a few. OK I will break this down.


Compared to God there is noone good.Even if you throw a bunch of apples in with some rotten ones they eventual all will rot.The flesh of man eventual rots.

Sure God will use Satan to do his work!
Romans 8

King James Version (KJV)


28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

It is still the work of the ill intentions of the person that brings death to that person but was not a fruit of righteousness that would bring life.

God is gooder!

Goodness will ultimately be judged on the consequences it reaps.

Galatians 5
whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

so the ability to have faith isn't good?

 

[Walkntune]

so the ability to have faith isn't good?

Faith is that of the spirit and not of the flesh.The flesh cannot believe in God but is at emnity with God nor can it be subject to his laws.

 

[waitasec]

Faith is that of the spirit and not of the flesh.

that's not true though.
i have faith in my 7 yr old son... that the lights will turn on one day...

everyone has the ability to have faith and hope...it is a part of our survival mechanism...
as a parent i would never say to my child he is incapable of being good...that would be horrible and that is what your god says...about you. :sad:

The flesh cannot believe in God but is at emnity with God nor can it be subject to his laws.

are you saying that we are all born atheists? i would agree to that..
the idea of a deity is a learned idea.
had humanity were privy to what we know today, i would argue that belief in a deity wouldn't have the weight it has now.

 

[Walkntune]

=waitasec;2632262]that's not true though.
i have faith in my 7 yr old son... that the lights will turn on one day...

everyone has the ability to have faith and hope...it is a part of our survival mechanism...
as a parent i would never say to my child he is incapable of being good...that would be horrible and that is what your god says...about you. :sad:

When one has learned they are their own enemy they can become free.

are you saying that we are all born atheists? i would agree to that..
the idea of a deity is a learned idea.
had humanity were privy to what we know today, i would argue that belief in a deity wouldn't have the weight it has now

No children are born full of faith. Fear and skepticism are learned behaviors.

 

[waitasec]

No children are born full of faith.

but you said...

The flesh cannot believe in God but is at emnity with God

Fear and skepticism are learned behaviors.

i disagree...
why do you think we have adrenal glands?

skepticism is as natural as breathing.
do you have kids?
the questions they ask are unavoidable...
at least kids know they don't know.