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What is a work?

Walkntune

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
waitasec said:
but you said...



i disagree...
why do you think we have adrenal glands?
skepticism is as natural as breathing.
do you have kids?
the questions they ask are unavoidable...
at least kids know they don't know.
Click to expand...
So the illusion begins.
Sorry just don't want to take this walk down how the right brain is faith ,love, emotions,left is skeptical,l analitcal.Seperation between the two creates an illusional reality.
We are learning there is a (me) or an (I) and creating a false separartion.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. ~Albert Einstein
 
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Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
Walkntune said:
Why do you think Jesus asked why do you ask me about what is good?
Click to expand...

Why do you think Jesus said "IF you want to ENter life"? He said "Why do you ask me about what is good" merely because the young man called him good. That part's easy. Do you think Jesus was lying about the Entering life part? Apparently.
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
Walkntune said:
It would appear that way to someone with the mindset of a pharisee or a Sadducee.
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The Pharisees created artificial doctrines and subtracted from the original doctrines. It seems many Christians resort to calling anyone who believes Jesus demanded good behavior a Pharisee. This reveals their total misunderstanding of what "Pharisee" actually means, they think its just a buzzword to mean "Someone who thinks you have to do anything to be saved other than claim to believe".

Thus, the ones who believe in Doctrines that involve post 2nd century antinomians that fly in the face of the actual text who snip out the critical verses and distort the meaning of Jesus' message are the ones who are the equivalent of Pharisees.
 
Walkntune

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
Shermana said:
Why do you think Jesus said "IF you want to ENter life"? He said "Why do you ask me about what is good" merely because the young man called him good. That part's easy. Do you think Jesus was lying about the Entering life part? Apparently.
Click to expand...
17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

The man kept the commandments yet he was not good.
18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

This man kept the commandments.Jesus then told him to do something that wasn't even one of the commandments in order to be perfect.
The man did not inherit the kingdom of God.

Matthew 5:20
  • "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Noone followed the laws as strict as the Pharisees and Sadducees! Righteousness just does not come by works of the law.
The Sadducees did not inherit the kingdom of God.
Thats why they were Sad you see!
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
Noone followed the laws as strict as the Pharisees and Sadducees! Righteousness just does not come by works of the law.
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You prove my case that most Christians have no idea what the Pharisees and Sadducees are, even after I explain that they made up their artificial rulings (as well as subtracting) regarding the Law. If anything it proves that one hasn't actually read the Gospels if they don't get this part yet since they should clearly recognize that they thought handwashing was a ritual requirement. Do you even know what Jesus rebukes them regarding? Not obeying the Law as its supposed to obeyed, they weren't helping the Orphans and Windows, as commanded in the Law. They were not actually obeying the fullness of the Law, they had made up their own version. Heard of the Talmud?

Nice way to completely avoid that Jesus specifically says "If you want to enter Life". However, this is common for "Grace-faith" Christians to completely avoid what Jesus actually says in favor of their inaccurate understandings.

Who do you suppose Jesus was referring to when he said "They shall be called the least"?
 
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waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
so what is a work?
clearly it is something you do...
and what you do defines your beliefs...


what's so wrong with that statement?
:shrug:


my guess it's because the weight of the responsibility of ones faith in the christian god is really heavy. and the reality of justifying ones short comings by saying the definition of works in the bible isn't the same as the definition we use in reality, it's just a disclaimer...an excuse...a really bad one at that.
 
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Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
It should be noted that 80% of scholars consider Ephesians to be Pseudipigraphic. The earliest manuscripts don't even say "To Ephesus", and it was called "Laodecians" by Marcion (where it first appears to be introduced).

Regardless, it's funny how Christians will snip out everything Jesus says about the necessity of good behavior for salvation to be trumped by a verse or two by (supposedly) Paul. Very notable. They'll also snip out what Paul says earlier such as in Phillipians 2:12, and Peter. And James. And John. And Jude. Guilty consciences seeking excuses? Possibly...

I wonder who they think the Lukewarm are.
 
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Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
What is belief exactly? It means to obey and accept the teachings as well as to accept something because the facts convince you. The word is more "Believe in", or actually "persuaded by". Being "persuaded" is not really "Blind faith", which is useless. To be "persuaded" means one actually understands because they accept and agree with the fullness of the teachings of the person, not because they feel forced to without knowing the whole story.

http://concordances.org/greek/4100.htm

For instance:
Agrippa, do you believe the Prophets?
Click to expand...
What is there to "believe" the prophets about? Their words.


Obviously, it clearly says that even those who claim to believe will not be saved if they are not righteous and doing the Father's will.

Jesus own' disciples were said to believe in him, but yet he warned them to do good works and avoid bad or they'd possibly not be saved. Apparently believing in is not enough, or you make Jesus a longwinded liar. Simply put, "Believing in" is only good as your follow through to what he says in regards to how to conduct your life.
 
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yourgraceisenough

yourgraceisenough

Active Member
romans chapter 4

1What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.​
​
romans is full of Grace....​
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation
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NIV actually gets this one right, what translation are you using? KJV I see. Another place where the KJV fudges the text. We are OBLIGATED to do works. It's like what Jesus said about being servants and not expecting reward. Otherwise, Paul contradicts everything Jesus said in your logic. It also contradicts with everything else Paul said. Like Phillipians 2:12. You realize that Paul spends great deals of time talking about good behavior and avoiding bad behavior, right? Why?

Here is another good translation: "What is due"

NAS: as a favor, but as what is due.
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Our works are what is due. Thus, righteous works are not something you do to earn a reward, but because it is due of you.
 
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yourgraceisenough

yourgraceisenough

Active Member
Shermana said:
NIV actually gets this one right, what translation are you using? We are OBLIGATED to do works. It's like what Jesus said about being servants and not expecting reward. Otherwise, Paul contradicts everything Jesus said in your logic.
Click to expand...

nope it is quite the opposite, if we rely on works that is debt before God, all we are demonstrating is self righteousness, if we rely on grace a free gift from God, that is accreditted to us by God, it is not our righteousness that puts us right before God it is the righteousness of our saviour Jesus...
 
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