What is Happening in Our Schools?

[SkepticThinker]

Pretty much. Under a rock or promoting Conservative anti-LBGT ideology.

That is a good question. Even in America, the philosophical aspects aren't downplayed much and it's very common for psychology majors to minor in philosophy (even my philosophy club was mostly psychology majors with philosophy minors) because psychology majors do learn quiet a bit about philosophy. But that is a pretty good question because the social sciences and humanities do tend to differ when compared to different places like that.

It depends which way you go with it too. I've certainly had to take quite a few courses with some pretty detailed scientific content (e.g. neurobiology and psychopharmacology) and I'm just working on getting into addiction counseling. If you want to go the Psychiatry route, you have to make it through medical school. I agree though, that there are some philosophical aspects as well.

 

[Etritonakin]

Recently attention has been drawn to an "anti-bullying program" introduced into Australian schools supposedly in an effort to help children who are "different" to stand up to bullies. But this has gone too far in the opinion of many, where children are asked to role play gay or transsexual teens. Children are also being urged to question their sexuality when they are not really old enough to understand sexual identity at such a young age.

"Australian Christian Lobby spokeswoman Wendy Frances says the Safe Schools material “discriminates’’ against heterosexual kids. “This is bullying in reverse,’’ she says. “A lot of children are still pretty innocent about this stuff; there’s a lot in the program that is age-inappropriate."

It is disturbing to me that the gay agenda has been carried too far and is now infiltrating to the point of making something that is still morally objectionable to many people, into something socially acceptable. It will NEVER be "socially acceptable" to God.

The Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras held in Sydney has become a "family" event. I am sorry, but there is no way I would expose my young children to this...or to teach them that this is "normal" or "acceptable" human behavior.

I have no problem with anyone being 'gay'...it is a genetic hiccup, but to promote the gay lifestyle as morally acceptable is something a Christian cannot condone.

For those who do not care what God thinks....I guess its party on.

Are children in other countries exposed to this too?

Do you have any specifics about what was going on in that particular case -links to reports, etc?

 

[Etritonakin]

I would be against strict homosexuality because not everyone is homosexual, I am against abstinence only education because it's only good for producing teenaged mothers (and what I had to endure had many false-hoods, blatant lies, and was degrading towards women), and religion has it's own place to be taught, which isn't in school.

Does teaching tolerance and acceptance of the religious have a place in schools?
How might you -if you would -teach a religious person tolerance of gay people -and a gay person tolerance of religious people?
What about the differences between tolerance, acceptance, education and indoctrination?
Why should gays be allowed to teach the children of religious people that which is against their specific religion when it has nothing to do with bullying or discrimination?
Why should the religious be allowed to teach the children of gays that their parents are discriminating against them?
Gays do NOT have to accept that religion is correct -and the religious do NOT have to accept that homosexuality is correct.
What about the differences between tolerance, acceptance, education and indoctrination?
Why would it be the place of a school -especially given an underlying agenda to bring about acceptance of homosexuality -to urge children to question their own sexuality when they were not otherwise even considering it?

Why should gays be allowed to sum up and sell homosexuality and every other sort of non-heterosexuality -especially to those otherwise not even considering any sort of sexuality -with one line which is not completely true- and is certainly not the complete truth.. "They were born that way" ...and how is that ANY different than the religious simply saying "because God said so"?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Does teaching tolerance and acceptance of the religious have a place in schools?

Teaching tolerance and acceptance of people. Regardless of skin color, sexuality, nationality, religion, schools are not the place for political bickering and they should be open to all.

How might you -if you would -teach a religious person tolerance of gay people -and a gay person tolerance of religious people?

I'd likely start by pointing out all the peace, love, and other Hippy stuff Jesus talked about.

What about the differences between tolerance, acceptance, education and indoctrination?

I know the differences. But, ultimately, all education is indoctrination. We don't have to tell people they have to accept each other, but kids do need to learn that in the adult world we at least have to tolerate people we may not like.

Why should gays be allowed to teach the children of religious people that which is against their specific religion when it has nothing to do with bullying or discrimination?

They aren't teaching the Bible is wrong. But if the school teaches something that is against the tenants of your religion, as often happens in America with the "Evolution vs Creationism 'debate,'" oh well. The school does not exist to promote your religious ideology, and if your ideology cannot allow for the tolerance of people you don't like, then perhaps you should rethink your ideology.

Why should the religious be allowed to teach the children of gays that their parents are discriminating against them?

What?

Gays do NOT have to accept that religion is correct -and the religious do NOT have to accept that homosexuality is correct.

That's correct. But homosexuals do have a right to the same public places as everyone else, and they have a right to not be the victims of bullying and harassment of "sincerely held religious beliefs." They have a right to be treated with decency and respect, and if a teacher tells a kid s/he's being mean for picking on a homosexual, for whatever reason, the teacher would be doing the right thing by saying that no one, including homosexuals, should be picked on because they are different, because it's ok to be different.

Why would it be the place of a school -especially given an underlying agenda to bring about acceptance of homosexuality -to urge children to question their own sexuality when they were not otherwise even considering it?

We worked towards accepting black kids in school. I am sure those resisting the acceptance of homosexuals will be just fine.

Why should gays be allowed to sum up and sell homosexuality

Because they're gay?

and every other sort of non-heterosexuality

They aren't summing up pansexuality, bisexuality, or asexuality.

"They were born that way" ...and how is that ANY different than the religious simply saying "because God said so"?

It's different because the gay person has tons of replicated research to verify his claim, the religious person only has a book that in many cases can't even get basic facts right.

 

[suncowiam]

Does teaching tolerance and acceptance of the religious have a place in schools?
How might you -if you would -teach a religious person tolerance of gay people -and a gay person tolerance of religious people?
What about the differences between tolerance, acceptance, education and indoctrination?
Why should gays be allowed to teach the children of religious people that which is against their specific religion when it has nothing to do with bullying or discrimination?
Why should the religious be allowed to teach the children of gays that their parents are discriminating against them?
Gays do NOT have to accept that religion is correct -and the religious do NOT have to accept that homosexuality is correct.
What about the differences between tolerance, acceptance, education and indoctrination?
Why would it be the place of a school -especially given an underlying agenda to bring about acceptance of homosexuality -to urge children to question their own sexuality when they were not otherwise even considering it?

Why should gays be allowed to sum up and sell homosexuality and every other sort of non-heterosexuality -especially to those otherwise not even considering any sort of sexuality -with one line which is not completely true- and is certainly not the complete truth.. "They were born that way" ...and how is that ANY different than the religious simply saying "because God said so"?

Gays don't go door to door and sell me to live their lifestyles.

Oh yes, I've had to turn away many JWs in my neighborhood. I be more weary with a religious folks interacting with my kids as opposed to gays, because I know very well which group purposely tries to convert others into their way of thinking.

Chicken and egg situation here. I bet you, if the religious dogma stopped referencing gays and transgendered as sinners, then the LGBT community would completely back off.

It's a cycle, but guess who's initiating the cycle over and over and over again?

Stop passing the hate, and the hate won't come back to you. It's no different than extremist Muslims calling me an infidel because I'm a Westerner. They don't know anything about me except that I live a different lifestyle than them.

 

[Deeje]

What's wrong with Homosexuality again?

According to the Bible, it is unlawful to have sex without marriage, and scriptural marriage can only be between a man and a woman with a view to starting a family. It is natural to want children.
Even infertile couples break no law of God as there is no strict laws about producing children....but they must be married. A stable family with both mother and father is a good balanced situation in which to raise children.

Homosexual acts are an unnatural perversion that do not lead to having children and the sex is unnatural and purely for selfish gratification. The more noble reason for sex is missing...and they are not "yoked together" by God.

This is the law for those who call themselves Christians...but for those who do not care what the Bible says, there is no law. You are free (for the time being) to be whoever you want to be. But according to the Creator, there is an accounting, whether we believe in God or not. Unbelief does not make God go away. He had a purpose in putting us here and that was to "fill the earth" with our kind. He set the rules and sexual sin carried the death penalty because the production of life was sacred to the one who created it.

When will people like you realize that you're normalizing discrimination and bullying against minorities purely to satisfy your own personal superstitions?

LOL....People like me? What about people like you? People like them? "People" are entitled to feel however they like about whatever they like. But if you are going to profess Christianity, then, like it or not, one has to obey the laws set out by the Creator. It is he who made the rules, not us.

Homosexuals exist through no fault on their part; God does not hate them, but he abhors what they do because human reproduction is sacred to him.That is why he treated fornicators and adulterers so severely. Both carried the death penalty.
There are no loopholes in God's law regarding perverted sexual practices...period.

Christians must make themselves "eunuchs" on account of the kingdom if they are to be acceptable as God's children. (Matt 19:12)

 

[Deeje]

Do you have any specifics about what was going on in that particular case -links to reports, etc?

Sorry, I only have the reaction in the OP.

I must admit that role playing for anti-bullying is not a bad idea per se, but I agree with you that we have to draw the line "between tolerance and acceptance" and between "education and indoctrination". I don't want my children and grandchildren to think that homosexuality is "normal" when it is clearly forbidden in the scriptures of my religion. I don't believe that any kind of perverted sexual activity is acceptable, regardless of gender....but I would never teach my kids to bully others about what they choose to be or how they live their lives. We all have choices and I believe we have the right to find things "disgusting" without being howled down as politically incorrect.
No one is ever going to make me feel as if the gay lifestyle is just another way to play 'Mommy and Daddy'. I will follow God's rules and no one is going to force me to accept what God condemns.

We raise our children to be tolerant and to simply avoid those whose practices we find unacceptable. They have the right to feel the same way about us. What they don't have the right to do is to dictate our sensibilities and force us to feel bad about rejecting what we find objectionable.

 

[SomeRandom]

Homosexuals exist through no fault on their part; God does not hate them, but he abhors what they do because human reproduction is sacred to him.That is why he treated fornicators and adulterers so severely. Both carried the death penalty.
There are no loopholes in God's law regarding perverted sexual practices...period.

So they're technically innocent beings who exist through no fault of their own and are still killed because their specific pairing does not yield progeny?
Good Lord, I'd hate to see what happens to infertile people! They're worse because even if they are heterosexual and married they'd never have progeny.

 

[Deeje]

So they're technically innocent beings who exist through no fault of their own and are still killed because their specific pairing does not yield progeny?

Is that what I said? Perhaps you should try reading a post before you reply.

Good Lord, I'd hate to see what happens to infertile people! They're worse because even if they are heterosexual and married they'd never have progeny.

As usual, someone running off at the mouth without reading what I wrote....

 

[kerndog]

Sorry, I only have the reaction in the OP.

I must admit that role playing for anti-bullying is not a bad idea per se, but I agree with you that we have to draw the line "between tolerance and acceptance" and between "education and indoctrination". I don't want my children and grandchildren to think that homosexuality is "normal" when it is clearly forbidden in the scriptures of my religion. I don't believe that any kind of perverted sexual activity is acceptable, regardless of gender....but I would never teach my kids to bully others about what they choose to be or how they live their lives. We all have choices and I believe we have the right to find things "disgusting" without being howled down as politically incorrect.
No one is ever going to make me feel as if the gay lifestyle is just another way to play 'Mommy and Daddy'. I will follow God's rules and no one is going to force me to accept what God condemns.

We raise our children to be tolerant and to simply avoid those whose practices we find unacceptable. They have the right to feel the same way about us. What they don't have the right to do is to dictate our sensibilities and force us to feel bad about rejecting what we find objectionable.

Deeje, you are spot on. Its not about hate , we KNOW what what gods word teaches, and i am quite sure gays who claim to be christian, do to ! But rather than to give up their sin, they do like Gods word says at... 1 Corinthians 6:9...They "MISLEAD or DECEIVE" themselves, these ones Paul was talking to, obviously had people who at one time, were practicing these things, but they gave them up, as he says in vs.11...."And yet that is what some of you, WERE" past tense ! Paul used this term "To mislead or deceive" ourselves, a number of times in his writings to describe people who wanted to carry on another agenda that was contrary to God and Jesus teachings. Its one thing to be carrying on an unscriptural sin, not caring if anyone likes it or not , Quite another to be doing it and trying to deceive yourself and others ,into thinking that it is acceptable to God ! This was obviously the case at ...JUDE 4... where there were ones who were using the love God, and the Christ had for them, into an excuse to carry on acts of "BRAZEN or SHAMELESS" conduct ! I know a lot of people claiming to be christian who hate these words of God ,that he inspired the apostle Paul to write down, and they ALWAYS do the same thing each time i talk to them, like Paul said , the try to "MISLEAD or DECEIVE" themselves by watering it down, or flat out REJECTING that Paul was even an apostle, used by God. They want God to fit THEIR lifestyle, instead of conforming to Gods, the WORLD and christendom does this on a routine basis, and then sets back and scratches their head as to why they are such a divided religion !

 

[SomeRandom]

Is that what I said? Perhaps you should try reading a post before you reply.

You said that it was not the fault of homosexuals for existing (which is a statement that suggests that they are innocent) and then proceeded to say the penalty for homosexuality and fornication was death.
You then proceeded to suggest that procreation was highly sacred to God, justifying this penalty.

To which I made a snarky reply about punishing the innocent and pointing out that not having babies is not a homosexuality thing. It's actually a circumstantial thing. It was to highlight a horrified reaction to a benevolent God smiting innocent creatures because their existence (through no fault of their own) "offended" Him. Which makes him look rather petty, hateful and actually kind of cruel.

You can spin it however you want, those are the implications of such statements.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I DO NOT HATE YOU OR ANY OTHER gay individual, i work with 3 openly gay people, 2 men, 1 woman. I get along great with 2 of them, i treat them with the same respect i treat anyone else, but they know how i feel about being forced fed on this issue, so, they respectfully dont bring it up around me, the other is pushy and arrogant about it. About 3 years ago we had an openly gay woman, i worked with, who was breaking up the marriage of a co-worker, long story short, the husband shot the gay woman dead in the parking lot of a local grocery store down the road, and then shot himself. Left people here with a lot of hard feelings toward gay community, being gay was not the issue, immoral behavior WAS. I will not have my family being led to believe immorality is acceptable, it is a scourge !

Let me get this straight (so to speak): it's the gay woman's fault that the hetero woman (not so hetero if she's into it) cheated on her husband? It's the gay woman's fault that the husband isn't secure enough in his relationship to avoid killing anyone ('cause I guess "divorce" is just too lame)?

Yes, we will. People who are against homosexuals and transgender and bisexuals, they will go the way of the racist. It doesn't matter for what reasons you say their are living a destructive lifestyle, what your god says, it won't matter, because we are not many generations away from people who will view those who are prejudiced against those who are LBGT as no different than we view racists today.

Yeah, all we have to do, staight or LGBTQ, is survive these last horrifically violent death throes. Then the Kingdom of Heaven can truly start.

I'm perfectly fine with people taking the issue up with God when they see him -either when he ceases human warfare and begins to rule Earth -or at some other point.
I'm also perfectly fine with them not believing that will happen -though I think it will be awesome when it does happen.

Has it ever occurred to you that God IS trying to fix what's wrong with the planet, but you enjoy the status quo too much to appreciate His goals?

With any issue -women's rights, racism, war, etc.,

It makes me laugh that "women's rights" are lumped in with racism and war.

I -personally -believe that obedience to the will of God is necessary for the ordering of eternity -and that it should supersede any worldly consideration.

And yet God is clearly demanding we should all get over our petty problems and join together in a heavenly harmony, and many people disagree with that.

I live by Pauls words

So the opinions of God and the Messiah mean less than a murderous man who enjoyed stoning people until he realized he could mess up the religion much more if he joined them?

Does teaching tolerance and acceptance of the religious have a place in schools?

Yes. However, when religious people are promoting violence and hatred, basic morality says we should stand against it.

What about the differences between tolerance, acceptance, education and indoctrination?

I think many religions already have the indoctrination thing covered.

Why should gays be allowed to teach the children of religious people that which is against their specific religion when it has nothing to do with bullying or discrimination?

Just because your religious leaders say it's not immoral to phsyically or verbally attack others doesn't mean it isn't.

Abusive people don't believe they are abusive. They believe they have the right to force others to do their will. They are still abusive, even though they don't see themselves that way.

Gays do NOT have to accept that religion is correct

You mean like how you don't accept that Matt 19:12 is Jesus HIMSELF telling you to get over it?

A Christian listening to JESUS? Ha! That'd be the day!

No, much better to listen to two religious terrorists (Moses and Paul).

According to the Bible, it is unlawful to have sex without marriage, and scriptural marriage can only be between a man and a woman with a view to starting a family. It is natural to want children.

Where is this scripture? How many actual examples of this "one man and one woman" thing do we actually HAVE in the bible? Should marriage licenses be revoked if a woman fails to have a baby every year?
edit: I don't want babies. I would rather rip out my own uterus with my own bare hands than give my psychotic parents' descendants. I am helping humanity's future by not reproducing. I am trying to prevent The Omen here.

Homosexual acts are an unnatural perversion that do not lead to having children and the sex is unnatural and purely for selfish gratification.

Getting laid just to say you have reproduced is highly selfish. Many parents just have children as though they are Social Security slaves, designed to cater to their every need without getting paid.

My maternal grandparents had children because their religion told them it was necessary. My own parents had children because apparently they didn't use contraception and that's okay, because we were always supposed to be either my father's slaves or my mother's baby dolls like when she was a kid. I'll take two loving gay or whatever people any day of the week instead of hetero parents who are abusive/psychotic, thanks.

 

[kerndog]

Let me get this straight (so to speak): it's the gay woman's fault that the hetero woman (not so hetero if she's into it) cheated on her husband? It's the gay woman's fault that the husband isn't secure enough in his relationship to avoid killing anyone ('cause I guess "divorce" is just too lame)

NO !! it is a immoral lifestyle, does not matter if gay or straight , God stated, "what God has joined together, let NO MAN (OR WOMAN) put apart" ! This is the result of disobeying this, ...Galatians 6:7.....Do you think these two should reap good things from bad behavior ? Was it extreme...SURE ! But with some people , you mess with the bull, YOU GET THE HORNS !!


Yeah, all we have to do, staight or LGBTQ, is survive these last horrifically violent death throes. Then the Kingdom of Heaven can truly start.


Has it ever occurred to you that God IS trying to fix what's wrong with the planet, but you enjoy the status quo too much to appreciate His goals?


It makes me laugh that "women's rights" are lumped in with racism and war.


And yet God is clearly demanding we should all get over our petty problems and join together in a heavenly harmony, and many people disagree with that.


So the opinions of God and the Messiah mean less than a murderous man who enjoyed stoning people until he realized he could mess up the religion much more if he joined them?


Yes. However, when religious people are promoting violence and hatred, basic morality says we should stand against it.


I think many religions already have the indoctrination thing covered.


Just because your religious leaders say it's not immoral to phsyically or verbally attack others doesn't mean it isn't.

Abusive people don't believe they are abusive. They believe they have the right to force others to do their will. They are still abusive, even though they don't see themselves that way.


You mean like how you don't accept that Matt 19:12 is Jesus HIMSELF telling you to get over it?

A Christian listening to JESUS? Ha! That'd be the day!

No, much better to listen to two religious terrorists (Moses and Paul).


Where is this scripture? How many actual examples of this "one man and one woman" thing do we actually HAVE in the bible? Should marriage licenses be revoked if a woman fails to have a baby every year?
edit: I don't want babies. I would rather rip out my own uterus with my own bare hands than give my psychotic parents' descendants. I am helping humanity's future by not reproducing. I am trying to prevent The Omen here.


Getting laid just to say you have reproduced is highly selfish. Many parents just have children as though they are Social Security slaves, designed to cater to their every need without getting paid.

My maternal grandparents had children because their religion told them it was necessary. My own parents had children because apparently they didn't use contraception and that's okay, because we were always supposed to be either my father's slaves or my mother's baby dolls like when she was a kid. I'll take two loving gay or whatever people any day of the week instead of hetero parents who are abusive/psychotic, thanks.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

A. There is no evidence that homosexual relationships are inferior to heterosexual ones. The ability to produce children is not a requirement for relationships nor are gays incapable of having children. They frequently do via surrogacy and adoption.
B. There is no evidence that families of homosexual couples are inferior to families of heterosexual couples. After decades of research nobody has been able to link a gender role parent association to children's health. Instead, findings from both pediatrics and psychology associations such as APA and international equivalents have shown children of homosexual parents are just as well adjusted as children of heterosexual parents.
C. Religious sentiments should not be supported in public schools. Christians against homosexuality or same-sex marriage have no objectively verifiable reason to do so, and I care about as much for religiously fueled policy against homosexual acceptance as I do religiously fueled policy against acceptance specific race, ethnicity, sex, gender or physical or mental challenges.
D. Anti-bullying exercises are designed to curb bullying. It's not out to turn kids gay, which wouldn't be possible if it's genetic. Though it does encourage kids to be honest with themselves and others if they are gay, not to hide it out of fear of reprisal. By asking kids to work on empathetic pro-social traits, you are not 'reverse bullying.' That's ridiculous.

 

[Aquitaine]

I've seen this image before and it is so incredibly accurate.

According to the Bible

This right here is the foundation which your arguement is based on: it's bad because bible says so. This is exactly what I mean when I talk about normalising discrimination based on superstition. The bible is a book of myths, yet you are using it to justify rhetoric which sounds eerily similar to that of the Westoboro Baptist Church.

Homosexual acts are an unnatural perversion

Homosexuality is observed in nature spanning multiple different species - it occurs in all human societies across the globe and through time - ergo it is natural behaviour.

Unbelief does not make God go away.

Belief, no matter how zealous, does not make god become real.

He had a purpose in putting us here and that was to "fill the earth" with our kind.

This same god also created the conditions for infertility and significant birth-mortality rates if left unassisted by medical science and technology. The same guy who flooded the Earth and launched an aerial bombardment over Sodom and Gomorrah. So much for him valuing the life of his apparent creations.

but he abhors what they do because human reproduction is sacred to him.

No it isn't, see above regarding infertility which he created.

There are no loopholes in God's law regarding perverted sexual practices...period.

Out of curiosity, what was your god's opinion on Lot's daughters drugging and raping him?

Christians must make themselves "eunuchs" on account of the kingdom if they are to be acceptable as God's children.

Whilst in reality, a significant portion of you homophobic christians end up actually being closet homosexuals, which I always find highly amusing.

 

[Onyx]

Many Christian organizations have their own private schools, and can teach what they want. THAT is the solution.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Whilst in reality, a significant portion of you homophobic christians end up actually being closet homosexuals, which I always find highly amusing.

I find such things to be such sweet and delicious irony.

 

[Aquitaine]

I find such things to be such sweet and delicious irony.

Wasn't the leader of one of those "Gay Conversion Academies" in California a homosexual in the end? I vaguely remember it in the news around a year or two ago.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Wasn't the leader of one of those "Gay Conversion Academies" in California a homosexual in the end? I vaguely remember it in the news around a year or two ago.

There's been too many to recall them all. I think one of the head guys of NARTH was busted with a gay prostitute. Some televangelists. Some gay conversion priests. It happens often enough that the only reason I even care is because it points out that what many think I should do just does not work, and it's pretty good for debate when someone says to "pray the gay away" and I can say "oh, you mean how this guy, and this one, and this one, and that one tried but all stayed gay anyways?"

 

[Aquitaine]

There's been too many to recall them all. I think one of the head guys of NARTH was busted with a gay prostitute. Some televangelists. Some gay conversion priests. It happens often enough that the only reason I even care is because it points out that what many think I should do just does not work, and it's pretty good for debate when someone says to "pray the gay away" and I can say "oh, you mean how this guy, and this one, and this one, and that one tried but all stayed gay anyways?"

All that built up sexual tension from pretending to be a good faithful prude. xD