What is Islamophobia?

[gsa]

Yup, just as Christianity the religion teaches to kill homosexuals, among other things.



If you can "certainly" see that, ,then you can "certainly" see that Islam is not violent.



That's simply false.

1. Christianity is anti-gay and does historically condone violence against homosexuals, as do many Christians today. I would never claim it is a religion of peace or love.

2. Religions are defined by doctrines, beliefs and practices. Islam Cleary teaches violence.

3. It is certainly true. These are not secular places.

 

[Magic Man]

It masks actual violence in the name of Islam.

In what way?

 

[YmirGF]

Ah, yes, the old "but that's still a lot of people", which completely misses the point. Of course that's still a problem. What we're talking about is whether you can attribute these things to "Islam" or "Muslims".

Hahaha. Okie dokie. What do you attribute these things to? That might be helpful.

 

[Magic Man]

Let me know if you need another bushel of straw.

Let me know which part you need explained so you can understand it.

 

[Magic Man]

1. Christianity is anti-gay and does historically condone violence against homosexuals, as do many Christians today. I would never claim it is a religion of peace or love.

So you would say Christianity is violent and preaches violence against some groups?

2. Religions are defined by doctrines, beliefs and practices. Islam Cleary teaches violence.

You got the first part right. Where you go off the tracks is when you forget that those doctrines, beliefs and practices vary wildly in large religions such as Islam. When you have 1.5 billion member across the world, you have a lot of different interpretations. Most of them don't teach violence.

3. It is certainly true. These are not secular places.

Nope, still false.

 

[YmirGF]

Let me know which part you need explained so you can understand it.

I love comments like this. Why don't you speak slowly... so this old troglodyte can follow your lips.

 

[Magic Man]

Hahaha. Okie dokie. What do you attribute these things to? That might be helpful.

One thing I don't attribute them to is hundreds of millions of people who aren't guilty of them.

 

[gsa]

So you would say Christianity is violent and preaches violence against some groups?



You got the first part right. Where you go off the tracks is when you forget that those doctrines, beliefs and practices vary wildly in large religions such as Islam. When you have 1.5 billion member across the world, you have a lot of different interpretations. Most of them don't teach violence.



Nope, still false.

1. Yes. Fortunately, secularism has defanged it in most of what was once Christendom.

2. The Quran does not vary wildly. And death for apostasy is violence.

3. Just a bare assertion unsupported by any evidence.

 

[Magic Man]

1. Yes. Fortunately, secularism has defanged it in most of what was once Christendom.

Well, at least it's not just Islam you look at irrationally.

2. The Quran does not vary wildly. And death for apostasy is violence.

You'll have to explain how the Koran doesn't vary wildly to me. Last I checked there were many different interpretations of it. Yes, death to apostates is violence. No, that doesn't mean Islam or Muslims are violent.

3. Just a bare assertion unsupported by any evidence.

Correct. You made a bare assertion unsupported by any evidence. That's why I called it false.

 

[gsa]

So now criticizing Christianity is "Christianophobia"?

 

[YmirGF]

You got the first part right. Where you go off the tracks is when you forget that those doctrines, beliefs and practices vary wildly in large religions such as Islam. When you have 1.5 billion member across the world, you have a lot of different interpretations. Most of them don't teach violence.

Muslims are not taught, as a rule, to turn the other cheek. Violence IS acceptable under the right conditions. What constitutes those conditions can vary wildly. It is a problem for any group that thinks their holy text is the literal word of god.

Likewise, understanding what is entailed in the Islamic sense of ``peace`` might startle some folks. Peace in Islam is often seen as a state of being when there is no opposition to Islam and Islam is the law of the land... till Judgment Day. It is more than a bit foolish to assume that kind of peace would be won without a great deal of violence.

 

[YmirGF]

One thing I don't attribute them to is hundreds of millions of people who aren't guilty of them.

Then answer the question.

 

[icehorse]

nazz and MagicMan -

Most of the world's Muslims live in a long, geographic band that stretches from Western Africa, through to Eastern Africa, into and throughout the ME, into SW Asia, and then, taking a jump over to SE Asia. This large area encompasses many countries, many cultures, and many societies.

The common thread is Islam. lslam, once again, is a set of ideas. As it happens, Islamic scripture calls for apostasy to be a crime. It calls for intolerance towards non-believers, misogyny, and homophobia. The list goes on.

As it also happens, across these many geographical regions and societies and cultures, a significant percentage of Muslims also happen to believe in exactly the same ideas described in the scripture. Not a majority, but perhaps 500 million.

Are you saying that this is a coincidence? Are you saying that because it's not a strict majority we can't make Islamic ideas culpable?

It strikes me that your contentions are that beliefs are not related to behaviors... is that your claim?

 

[nazz]

nazz and MagicMan -

Most of the world's Muslims live in a long, geographic band that stretches from Western Africa, through to Eastern Africa, into and throughout the ME, into SW Asia, and then, taking a jump over to SE Asia. This large area encompasses many countries, many cultures, and many societies.

The common thread is Islam. lslam, once again, is a set of ideas. As it happens, Islamic scripture calls for apostasy to be a crime. It calls for intolerance towards non-believers, misogyny, and homophobia. The list goes on.

As it also happens, across these many geographical regions and societies and cultures, a significant percentage of Muslims also happen to believe in exactly the same ideas described in the scripture. Not a majority, but perhaps 500 million.

Are you saying that this is a coincidence? Are you saying that because it's not a strict majority we can't make Islamic ideas culpable?

It strikes me that your contentions are that beliefs are not related to behaviors... is that your claim?

No, that is certainly not my claim. My claim is that Islam is a diverse set of ideas. So any sentence that begins with "Islam teaches..." is ridiculous.

 

[icehorse]

No, that is certainly not my claim. My claim is that Islam is a diverse set of ideas. So any sentence that begins with "Islam teaches..." is ridiculous.

How about those specific ideas I mentioned? It's ideas like those that are important.

 

[nazz]

How about those specific ideas I mentioned? It's ideas like those that are important.

What about them? Do you see me denying that some Muslims believe in those things?

 

[LuisDantas]

No, that is certainly not my claim. My claim is that Islam is a diverse set of ideas. So any sentence that begins with "Islam teaches..." is ridiculous.

Then you are taking it too far. There is certainly such a thing as a set of ideas that is typical of Islam, and even one that is necessary to define it in a way that is at all meaningful.

 

[YmirGF]

No, that is certainly not my claim. My claim is that Islam is a diverse set of ideas. So any sentence that begins with "Islam teaches..." is ridiculous.

Way to go insulting 1.5 billion Muslims. Freaking brilliant.

 

[Magic Man]

Then answer the question.

Why do I need to know a complex and difficult answer in order to rule out an easy one?

 

[Magic Man]

Muslims are not taught, as a rule, to turn the other cheek. Violence IS acceptable under the right conditions. What constitutes those conditions can vary wildly. It is a problem for any group that thinks their holy text is the literal word of god.

Likewise, understanding what is entailed in the Islamic sense of ``peace`` might startle some folks. Peace in Islam is often seen as a state of being when there is no opposition to Islam and Islam is the law of the land... till Judgment Day. It is more than a bit foolish to assume that kind of peace would be won without a great deal of violence.

Christians who are taught to turn the other cheek still think violence is the answer in many instances. Many of America's most ardent Christians are the ones most pushing for more military in the Middle East.