What is Islamophobia?

[Magic Man]

Uh, there are whole Muslim nations that do support death to apostates. Or more properly, that hesitate in saying outright that it is wrong.

Sure, there are laws about arresting them instead, and claims that it takes "violent" apostasy to "deserve" death. But one would be hard pressed to see a clear statement that apostasy does not justify death.

Perhaps most revealing of all, Islam is the sole major religion which supports similar readings of its own scripture these days.

This is the problem. It goes from "There are Muslim countries that support this" to "Muslims support this". Would it be accurate to say "Americans support the War on Terror"? I don't think so because there are too many Americans who don't. Same with death to apostates and Muslims.

 

[Magic Man]

I mean that if it is so, then there is not a problem to complain about. Islamophobia, to the extent it exists, is a nuisance at worst.

Much like Ann Coulter really.

Sadly that's not the case. Unfortunately, it's a significant problem. It causes attacks on and discrimination against innocent Muslims/Arabs.

 

[Sees]

Sadly that's not the case. Unfortunately, it's a significant problem. It causes attacks on and discrimination against innocent Muslims/Arabs.

One of the more curious things about Islamophobia is it seems to only initiate retaliatory attacks. Most forms of hate crimes, influenced by ____phobia, go after certain groups or individuals just for simply being who they are.

 

[LuisDantas]

This is the problem. It goes from "There are Muslim countries that support this" to "Muslims support this". Would it be accurate to say "Americans support the War on Terror"? I don't think so because there are too many Americans who don't. Same with death to apostates and Muslims.

That looks like grasping at straws to me. You might as well deny that, say, Americans support literacy with much the same arguments.

 

[icehorse]

This is the problem. It goes from "There are Muslim countries that support this" to "Muslims support this". Would it be accurate to say "Americans support the War on Terror"? I don't think so because there are too many Americans who don't. Same with death to apostates and Muslims.

I'll direct you back to the Pew poll that indicates that a significant percentage of Muslims DO agree that apostasy is a crime. Not a majority overall, but a majority in some countries.

This is one of the main problems I have with Islam. It is not simply a religion, it is a totalitarian ideology. If you disagree, I'd ask you to cite a few Muslim majority countries in which religious minorities are not under severe persecution...

 

[Chev Chelios]

Islamophobia is a shrewd term that, despite not pertaining to Moslems per se, is nontheless used in exactly this way – to demonstrate racisim against Moslems. I am sure you lot have noticed this? Islamophobia is frivolously bandied about to character assassinate any critique of Islam or silence any debate on it by using it to smear a person - a de facto blasphemy law created by Moslems with the full support of its many halo polishing apologists. Islamophobia has been cleverly (and specifically) set up to be equated with racisim in order to push odious agendas yet it is mere word play, an intellectual sleight of hand - I cannot believe its users are allowed to get away with such unscrupulous deception.

Islam is a belief system, it is a quite extensive set of ideas which puts in place social structures and rules of government – Islam is openly called an ideology.. So how then, if I was to say that this ideology is incompatible with Western values how can this then result in me being marked as an Islamophobe? I disagree with the ideology – how can this pertain to an irrational xenophobic pathogolical phobia? How can a person be deemed prejudice if they simply dislike a belief system? Can anyone explain to me how we even begin to tackle the problem of the human rights abomination that constitutes all 50 Moslem majority countries without being called an Islamophobe?

I have no issue with Moslems – I do have an issue with many tenants and precepts of Islam - so how on Earth can such a canard be used to imply I dislike an individual? I disagree with much of what the faith espouses and would never wish to live under its rule of law and I am surely allowed to say I dislike it in exactly the same way I can say I dislike the Labour party and do not wish to be governed by them. You see, I have the right to dislike something and do so without fear of being tainted as a bigot or a racist. It is very simple. Christianity receives copious criticism in the media, the arts and all the rest of it yet we see no Christianophobia – why?

This is important because the power of this ludicrous term has resulted in many people being jailed for quite trivial things which were dressed up as serious crimes because they were deemed ‘Islamophobic’. Racism is a serious thing and such a serious thing should be treated seriously with a distinction being made between genuine hatred of a people or a race and a legitimate concern for a doctrine that I do not believe in or agree with.

 

[nazz]

One can hope. Islam is like Nazism as much as it is like Democracy. A clever wordsmith could probably even manage to sound somewhat informed on the subject.

In relation to the OP though, isn't it odd that you make sweeping generalizations against whom you discern to be Islamophobes for making precisely the same type of sweeping generalizations about Islam/Muslims. I smell a bit of a double-standard at play.

I'm making no sweeping generalizations about any group of people. If I said all Dutch people were Islamophobes that would be a sweeping and inaccurate generalization. You could call me a Dutchophobe then.

 

[nazz]

I mean that if it is so, then there is not a problem to complain about. Islamophobia, to the extent it exists, is a nuisance at worst.

Much like Ann Coulter really.

As Magic Man pointed out it leads to violence against Muslims. Saying it's merely a nuisance is saying that something like antisemitism is merely a nuisance. Antisemitism led to the Holocaust. But what concerns me the most is all of this leading to another world war.

 

[LuisDantas]

As Magic Man pointed out it leads to violence against Muslims. Saying it's merely a nuisance is saying that something like antisemitism is merely a nuisance. Antisemitism led to the Holocaust. But what concerns me the most is all of this leading to another world war.

Then I think you are taking the wrong side, Nazz.

 

[nazz]

Then I think you are taking the wrong side, Nazz.

The wrong side? what the heck does that mean? I am on the side of peace.

 

[gsa]

All off your examples can properly be characterized as anti-Muslim, so no need to use the term "Islamophobia"

 

[Augustus]

All off your examples can properly be characterized as anti-Muslim, so no need to use the term "Islamophobia"

But Islamophobia is a great word that is highly precise and unambiguous, clarifies rather than obfuscates, never becomes the subject of the conversation at the expense of the larger intended point and allows the partizans no hiding room for their nefarious agendas...

 

[gsa]

But Islamophobia is a great word that is highly precise and unambiguous, clarifies rather than obfuscates, never becomes the subject of the conversation at the expense of the larger intended point and allows the partizans no hiding room for their nefarious agendas...

Right. The effect, if not purpose, here is clearly preventing rational criticism of Islam, including radical Islam.

 

[nazz]

All off your examples can properly be characterized as anti-Muslim, so no need to use the term "Islamophobia"

Supposing you get called "anti-Muslim" for criticizing Islam. Are you then going to say that in addtition to not being allowed to use the term Islamophobia we can't say anti-Muslim either? Sorry, but I do not give up the use of perfectly good words just because some people may misuse them.

 

[nazz]

Right. The effect, if not purpose, here is clearly preventing rational criticism of Islam, including radical Islam.

Say what? I think we need to coin a word for people like you who think those who are against antiMuslim bigotry are also against rational critique of Islam. Any suggestions? I'm sorry (not!) but I refuse to sweep anti-Muslim bigotry under the rug because you think it "shuts down the debate".

 

[nazz]

The Jewish Press » » Young Muslims to Protect Oslo Synagogue as Jews Pray in Norway

My Islamophobe friends say this is a trap. That they are just alerting the jihadists where to find Jews to kill.

Of course Islamophobes don't exist so no problem!

 

[Augustus]

Say what? I think we need to coin a word for people like you who think those who are against antiMuslim bigotry are also against rational critique of Islam. Any suggestions? .

My suggestion is to get away from the need to use a label. Just explain what the problem is without the need for a one word, catch all cliche.

 

[gsa]

Supposing you get called "anti-Muslim" for criticizing Islam. Are you then going to say that in addtition to not being allowed to use the term Islamophobia we can't say anti-Muslim either? Sorry, but I do not give up the use of perfectly good words just because some people may misuse them.

So call me anti-Muslim. It would be a cheap shot and incorrect, but at least it would be a term that conveyed meaning.

 

[gsa]

The Jewish Press » » Young Muslims to Protect Oslo Synagogue as Jews Pray in Norway

My Islamophobe friends say this is a trap. That they are just alerting the jihadists where to find Jews to kill.

Of course Islamophobes don't exist so no problem!

That person has hysterical overreaction to actions by Muslims, hence anti-Muslim. Simple.

 

[gsa]

Say what? I think we need to coin a word for people like you who think those who are against antiMuslim bigotry are also against rational critique of Islam. Any suggestions? I'm sorry (not!) but I refuse to sweep anti-Muslim bigotry under the rug because you think it "shuts down the debate".

Sure th we are a number of terms available: Rational, logical, clear headed....use any of the three you like, I won't take offense.

Note: I suggested using anti-Muslim, just not Islamophobia.