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What is Islamophobia?

Is Islamophobia a meaningful term?

  • Yes, it refers to anti-Muslim animus

    Votes: 8 25.8%
  • Yes, it refers to criticism of Islam

    Votes: 2 6.5%
  • No, it refers to criticism of Islam

    Votes: 3 9.7%
  • No, it is a politicized term that is too broad or vague

    Votes: 14 45.2%
  • Other (Explain)

    Votes: 4 12.9%

  • Total voters
    31

Servant_of_the_One1

Well-Known Member
You didn't answer my question. I agree, it is mentioned in the Quraan, but that is merely a book. What is YOUR reasoning for believing that islamophobes "hate what Allah revealed?" How could they even know unless they read the Quraan? It just doesn't make any sense and seems to be an outdated passage irrelevent to the issue at hand.


There are many types of islamophobes. The islamophobia iam talking about is the one that knows islam and hates it. They read quran, and they hate it and wants to kick out muslims as punishment. Look at wilders. His prime mission is to bring down all mosques and to close border for muslim immigrants.

Then there is islamophobia caused by intolerant groups isis, alqeada, boko haram. People see the actions of isis and think that is islam. In return they hate islam, wants their govt to purify their land from muslims.
 
Can you explain why you see this an important distinction?

Because Muslims are a diverse people and Islam is a belief system.

They often go hand in hand even with classic psychologically defined phobias. My wife suffers from arachnophobia and as a result she HATES spiders.

The fear is irrational, the resulting hate is not.

It's no stranger than the use of homophobia.

Another word I dislike

So are any of the Islamophobia deniers going to say that the material I posted is not Islamophobic? Any of you?

Does anyone actually deny that some people have irrational hatred/fear of Muslims or that some people are bigoted against Muslims?

Most people just think the word is not actually the best word to use. I think the way that it is used helps the bigots and gives them an easy way to obscure their bigotry.

Why do you think that it is the best word to use? Don't you think it has been drained of meaning and simply creates a barrier to effective communication? (rule of thumb: when people have long debates on whether or not a word is a suitable/good one for general conversation, it is not a good one.)
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
There are many types of islamophobes. The islamophobia iam talking about is the one that knows islam and hates it. They read quran, and they hate it and wants to kick out muslims as punishment. Look at wilders. His prime mission is to bring down all mosques and to close border for muslim immigrants.

Then there is islamophobia caused by intolerant groups isis, alqeada, boko haram. People see the actions of isis and think that is islam. In return they hate islam, wants their govt to purify their land from muslims.
Those people, Wilder especially, are referred to in intelligent society as "ignoramouses." There aren't that many that even deserve your attention.
 

nazz

Doubting Thomas
Because Muslims are a diverse people and Islam is a belief system.
Granted. Your point? People hate/fear Islam AND Muslims

The fear is irrational, the resulting hate is not.
It's not? How do you arrive at that?

Another word I dislike
OK. I doubt you'll convince anyone to stop using either one.

Does anyone actually deny that some people have irrational hatred/fear of Muslims or that some people are bigoted against Muslims?

Most people just think the word is not actually the best word to use. I think the way that it is used helps the bigots and gives them an easy way to obscure their bigotry.

Why do you think that it is the best word to use? Don't you think it has been drained of meaning and simply creates a barrier to effective communication? (rule of thumb: when people have long debates on whether or not a word is a suitable/good one for general conversation, it is not a good one.)
I think it's a legitimate and accurate term. The only reason people are objecting to it is because some people miuse it. I don't see that as sufficient reason to stop using it.
 
Granted. Your point? People hate/fear Islam AND Muslims

Hating a belief system is substantially different from hating 1 billion people



It's not? How do you arrive at that?

If you fear spiders it is rational to hate them.


OK. I doubt you'll convince anyone to stop using either one.

This word is less contentious though as it is not part of a political battleground


I think it's a legitimate and accurate term. The only reason people are objecting to it is because some people miuse it. I don't see that as sufficient reason to stop using it.

A word being rampantly misused is exactly the reason you would want to stop using it. Why would anyone want to run an unnecessary risk of being misinterpreted, spun or rejected simply because they choose to use a term that is so nebulous and misdefined? Remember what the point of communication actually is...
 
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nazz

Doubting Thomas
Hating a belief system is substantially different from hating 1 billion people
like I say Islamophobes hate both

If you fear spiders it is rational to hate them.
I disagree

A word being rampantly misused is exactly the reason you would want to stop using it. Why would anyone want to run an unnecessary risk of being misinterpreted, spun or rejected simply because they choose to use a term that is so nebulous and misdefined? Remember what the point of communication actually is...
I've explained my use of the term multiple times. There should be no confusion. If I stopped using terms that are misused I'd have to stop talking altogether.
 

Midnight Rain

Well-Known Member
So people keep saying but I personally have not run into that. No one has called me an Islamophobe for criticizing Islam.
The very last debate I was in with a Muslim I was called that.

I don't agree. A person can be very well informed about Islam and still criticize it. I am and I do.
I don't think that I cannot criticize the religion. I think that it is in the mindset of some of the followers that it is this way.
 
I've explained my use of the term multiple times. There should be no confusion. If I stopped using terms that are misused I'd have to stop talking altogether.

This is exactly why you should not want to use the term. Unless you are using highly specialised vocabulary, having to explain how you use a term is clear evidence of poor choice of expression, especially when your definition of the term goes against common usage of the word. Up to you whether or not you want to accept that fact.

The choice of words you use often has a greater effect on meaning than the actual underlying point that you are making. If you wish to utilise ineffective terminology, that is your choice. Just because you think it is a nice word to use, doesn't mean that those you are communicating with are going to hear it the way you would like them to though. Words should be chosen based on the audience not the speaker, and it is abundantly clear that Islamophobia means many things to many people.

It is a terrible word to choose if you wish to make a reasoned point, but if you think otherwise then that is your prerogative.
 
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nazz

Doubting Thomas
This is exactly why you should not want to use the term. Unless you are using highly specialised vocabulary, having to explain how you use a term is clear evidence of poor choice of expression, especially when your definition of the term goes against common usage of the word. Up to you whether or not you want to accept that fact.

The choice of words you use often has a greater effect on meaning than the actual underlying point that you are making. If you wish to utilise ineffective terminology, that is your choice. Just because you think it is a nice word to use, doesn't mean that those you are communicating with are going to hear it the way you would like them to though. Words should be chosen based on the audience not the speaker, and it is abundantly clear that Islamophobia means many things to many people.

It is a terrible word to choose if you wish to make a reasoned point, but if you think otherwise then that is your prerogative.
Even you admit the word is being misused. That implies there is a correct usage for the word. Why would just assume someone who uses the word is using it incorrectly?
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
I think we are talking matters of degree, Diedre. Sure, I am not saying Islamophobes have the same type of feeling I have when I am on top of a tall building but the fear they feel is just as irrational as the fear I feel in that situation.
I agree about the irrational aspect based on imagination, ignorance and poor sourcing, however, once you have made a meaningful investigation into Islam, you at least have good reasons for your "fears".
 

nazz

Doubting Thomas
I agree about the irrational aspect based on imagination, ignorance and poor sourcing, however, once you have made a meaningful investigation into Islam, you at least have good reasons for your "fears".
I've done so and see no need for alarm.
 

Juhurka

Member
We hear many references to "Islamophobia" online, in the news and in popular discourse generally. Some people claim that films like "American Sniper" are Islamophopbic:

Speaking about the rise of anti-Arab sentiment in the US since the controversy surrounding the Ground Zero mosque in 2010, Mr Ayoub called the release of American Sniper “the turning point”.

“It may not be directly linked to the film, but the overall way that Islamophobia and anti-Arab sentiment are moving in this country is portrayed in the words of those who watched American Sniper.

“The film gave us a look into how these individuals were feeling and for the first time we were getting raw, real messages – and they were frightening.”


Yet the particular complaints about American Sniper seem to have less to do with Islam than depictions of the Iraqi people as a crazed, undifferentiated mass of savages.

So is the complaint about criticism of Islam? Or stereotypes of Muslims? Or what?

The history of the word is interesting as well. The first apparent usage referred to French colonial administrative treatment of Muslim subjects, apparently, although theorist Edward Said, best known for his controversial thesis in the work Orientalism, also ran with it in the 1980s:

Some chart the popularization of the term 'Islamophobia" back to a series of studies in the 1990s by the Runnymede Trust, a left-leaning British think tank. A 1997 reported entitled “Islamophobia: A Challenge for Us All” documented “closed” views of Islam in the U.K., including perceptions of the religion as a single bloc that is barbaric, sexist, and engaged in terrorist activities.

But Robin Richardson, who edited the Runnymede report and currently works for the educational consultancy Insted, maintains that the think tank simply borrowed the term from previous usage. In a
recent paper, he traces the phrase to Alain Quellien's use of the French word islamophobie in 1910 to criticize French colonial administrators for their treatment of Muslim subjects.

Richardson claims that post-colonial theorist Edward Said was the first to use the word in English, when he wrote in 1985 about “‘the connection … between Islamophobia and antisemitism’ and criticized writers who do not recognize that ‘hostility to Islam in the modern Christian West has historically gone hand in hand’ with antisemitism and ‘has stemmed from the same source and been nourished at the same stream.’”


Clearly, however, anti-Semitism cannot be reduced to "hostility to Judaism," since anti-Semitism is traditionally a form of "people hatred," as opposed to criticism, even hostility, to the Jewish religion. Similarly, "Islamophobia" is broadly construed to encompass anti-Arab animus, presumably because such animus is attributable to the perception that all Arabs, or at least the vast majority, are Muslim.

But plenty of other people are deemed "Islamophobic," including Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins and other critics of Islam. The broad label has even been applied to ex-Muslims, including ex-Muslims who have joined the community of secular freethinkers and are fighting for reform in the Muslim world.

So what is Islamophobia? And is it a meaningful word?


Islamophobia is a political tool used by powerful people within the Muslim world to achieve Islamic domination of the world.

Defamation of religion and the United Nations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
I've done so and see no need for alarm.
Hence "fears" was placed in quotes. When you look at the fine print in Islam, one sees a fairly unseemly underbelly. The biggest problem for Islam is the popular notion among Muslims that the Qur'an is the literal word of God. This does not leave one a lot of wiggle-room to get around foundation class dogmatic ideas.
 

nazz

Doubting Thomas
Hence "fears" was placed in quotes. When you look at the fine print in Islam, one sees a fairly unseemly underbelly. The biggest problem for Islam is the popular notion among Muslims that the Qur'an is the literal word of God. This does not leave one a lot of wiggle-room to get around foundation class dogmatic ideas.
I don't fear books or religions and I see no reason to fear most Muslims
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
I don't fear books or religions and I see no reason to fear most Muslims
Jolly good, Nazz. Me neither. Personally, I think we are witnessing the last gasps of Islam, as we know it, and in the next hundred years it will become little more than a dark memory that is perhaps best forgotten.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I don't fear books or religions

But you are bothered by something comparatively so minor as a "Islamophobia" that may not even exist?

Religions can and should be feared when they teach people to engage in destructive behavior. That is true even if we take for granted that such justification is by definition an abuse and misinterpretation of the doctrine.

The problem I have with Islam is not so much with the doctrine itself as with its sore lack of means for learning better and internally adjusting the behavior and expectations of its own worst impulses.

To the best of my knowledge, very few Muslims feel both capable and interested in doing anything about the quality of practice of their own religion, and it shows.

It is apparently far easier for a Muslim to solve any issues with his faith or that of his community by leaving the religion altogether than by proposing internal measures or adjustments to the practice. Tradition has become much too decisive, questioning too undesired. Even for a Muslim woman to marry a Christian man it is seems to be more practical for her to become a Christian herself, apparently because Muslim cultures tend to just not have the means to handle the marriage of a Christian man to one of their own women.

While it is premature to say outright that this happens because the idea of trusting God has run amok to entirely unrealistic and unhealthy levels in the Islamic world and the adherents have so far failed to allow themselves to do anything of practical effectiveness about that, it is very difficult to deny it either.


and I see no reason to fear most Muslims

I don't fear most Muslims either.

That is a good thing, too. I'm not prepared to fear about one billion people, which is what would constitute most Muslims.

I do however fear what their rather unadapting religion might lead them to do when given just a little ambiguity or questionable motivation. Saying that those who end up misguided are almost certainly not true Muslims and will end up being judged accordingly by God in the afterlife would not be an adequate response even if I believed in it.

Somehow I suspect that just by saying so I will be perceived as hopelessly Islamophobic by some. But there is really no alternative I can speak of. If I must choose between surrendering to the wisdom and auspices of unquestioned, unchecked (and frankly, unwise) monotheism and being perceived as subhuman scum by those who do such surrendering, then I shall proudly bear the brand of a Kafir.

I would love to learn that there is no good reason to do so, but so far the Islamic references I have met are simply not very willing to cooperate with that goal.

It is sad, too, if for no other reason because I have pretty much concluded that some of the most admirable people in all of existence have, in fact, been dedicated Muslims such as Kemal Ataturk and, above all, Khan Abdul Gaffhar Khan. Quite frankly, I expect people in a couple of generations or so to hold doubts about Khan's very existence. He is almost literally too admirable to to real.

But their religion? It sure seems to be in bad need for an internal questioning and renewal that, from all appearances, it just won't allow itself to have. And that because it has put itself in a situation where it can't choose self-improvement without branding itself a misguided, apostatic or herectic group.

They have simply bet too much of their religious dignity and worth on the health of a very few, very unsound premises.

I badly want to be convinced otherwise, but the means just will not materialize. Every single attempt I went through just gives me further evidence that while most Muslims are very well-meaning, often admirably virtuous people, they are helpless to deal with abuse of faith to the point of perhaps doubting it to be a possibility altogether within their religion.

I have every right to fear and denounce such a danger, make no mistake. Among other reasons, because that is perhaps the only way of learning that I am misjudging Islam - if it turns out that I somehow am.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist


So what is Islamophobia? And is it a meaningful word?
Islamaphobia is a word used to create a false moral dichotomy whereby those on actual moral high ground in criticizing the evils a world view includes are said to be prejudiced. IOW the one who points out a religion has 1 out of every 50 verses authorizing violence is said to be making an immoral judgment on a thing that is actually peaceful. I do not know how long the tactic has been around but modern liberals have perfected it. If anyone points out the evil inherent in an ideology you simply label them with a derogatory word and dismiss them. I don't know how meaningful it is but it has proven imminently useful in modern politics and the public square.

BTW I am not claiming most Muslims are inherent violent, I am claiming the religion and it's principle texts are.
 
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