What is nonbinary?

[ImmortalFlame]

What constitutes a woman are the physical things men do not have, right down to the genes.

So, before you refer to anyone as either a man or women, you investigate their bodies and their genes?

That’s why trans people need surgery, because they cannot or never will be a woman.

No, that's not right. There are lots of trans people who don't have surgery.

The reason they have surgery (in part, at leas) is because we have a socialised idea of what a person who fits the label "man" or "woman" is supposed to look like, and they either wish to fit that idea better for themselves or wish to conform more to the idea of what someone expects to see in them.

Surgery is a mask, I can put a silk hat on a pig but it changes nothing

You have yet to clearly and consistently define wither "man" or "woman", so you're not really in a position to say things like that.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No

Cool, so then we can agree that having or not having a penis is irrelevant to whether or not an individual can be considered a man.

So that's another of your arguments rendered nonsensical. Got another?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

That is why men who have surgery are still men

So we agree that having or not having certain physical appendages or traits is not relevant to whether or not someone is male or female. Good.

Stop saying it, then.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

It’s not difficult, it’s easy when you look to the truth.

And that truth is that... what is or is not a man or woman is purely defined by you - the person who can't keep their arguments straight and says you can't be a woman if you can't have kids and you can't be a man if you don't have a penis, yet also says you can still be a woman even if you don't have kids and you can still be a man even if you don't have a penis.

You're very confused. I'm not sure you're the best person to dictate this.

 

[Madmogwai]

So, before you refer to anyone as either a man or women, you investigate their bodies and their genes?


No, that's not right. There are lots of trans people who don't have surgery.

The reason they have surgery (in part, at leas) is because we have a socialised idea of what a person who fits the label "man" or "woman" is supposed to look like, and they either wish to fit that idea better for themselves or wish to conform more to the idea of what someone expects to see in them.


You have yet to clearly and consistently define wither "man" or "woman", so you're not really in a position to say things like that.

A man standing naked with a penis is not a social construct.
He can deny he is a man due to woke social constructs.
Social constructs do not make men, men make social constructs.
It will still not change the fact, even if you try to mask it with surgery

 

[Madmogwai]

And that truth is that... what is or is not a man or woman is purely defined by you - the person who can't keep their arguments straight and says you can't be a woman if you can't have kids and you can't be a man if you don't have a penis, yet also says you can still be a woman even if you don't have kids and you can still be a man even if you don't have a penis.

You're very confused. I'm not sure you're the best person to dictate this.

No, it’s defined by nature, and will never be wished away

 

[Madmogwai]

And that truth is that... what is or is not a man or woman is purely defined by you - the person who can't keep their arguments straight and says you can't be a woman if you can't have kids and you can't be a man if you don't have a penis, yet also says you can still be a woman even if you don't have kids and you can still be a man even if you don't have a penis.

You're very confused. I'm not sure you're the best person to dictate this.

Says the person that cannot tell a man from a woman, basic biology.
You cannot even define what a woman is.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

A man standing naked with a penis is not a social construct.

The label "man" is.

He can deny he is a man due to woke social constructs.

No, they can deny it if the label doesn't fit.

Social constructs do not make men, men make social constructs.

True. Which is why this social construct is subjective.

It will still not change the fact, even if you try to mask it with surgery

A fact you have yet to meaningfully explain or define.

So far, your argument boils down to "men are men, and that is a fact".

I mean, I agree. But you haven't actually meaningfully defined what IS a man, except that it cannot possibly be a TRANS man.

I disagree, and have given a very simple and consistent argument and definition as to why. You can't keep your arguments straight, and you have yet to provide a definition. You're just talking in circles.

You literally have no idea what men or women are.

 

[Madmogwai]

You have disgustingly reduced a woman to a label or mask someone can put on or take of at will.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No, it’s defined by nature, and will never be wished away

How is it defined by nature? We assigned the label. Do you think the first person born with a penis had a birthmark that read "male"?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

You have disgustingly reduced a woman to a label or mask someone can put on or take of at will.

That is literally how all labels work. It's literally what you do every time you look at someone - you assign a label to them based on a selection of subjective criteria.

And please don't attempt he faux-feminist angle. I see through it immediately.

 

[Madmogwai]

How is it defined by nature? We assigned the label. Do you think the first person born with a penis had a birthmark that read "male"?

No but the fact that we exist showed he new what to do with it, as he saw the female was clearly different.

 

[Madmogwai]

That is literally how all labels work. It's literally what you do every time you look at someone - you assign a label to them based on a selection of subjective criteria.

And please don't attempt he faux-feminist angle. I see through it immediately.

You see though it, but don’t even know what it is.
By your definition anything can be called a female.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

A woman is an adult adult biological female, not a male who was born with delusions and so calls himself a woman.

Your definition is self-referential. You cannot use a word "female" as part of a definition of a woman.

Delusions are illusions not facts.

Like your delusion that woman can't be women if they can't have babies?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No but the fact that we exist showed he new what to do with it, as he saw the female was clearly different.

So, your argument that trans people are not the gender they identify with is... people are different.

Correct, people are different.

And...?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

You see though it, but don’t even know what it is.
By your definition anything can be called a female.

Well, strictly speaking, yes. Which is something we do all the time. We use female pronoun for ships, for example. We can use female pronouns for lots of things.

Socially however, no. A person should only be called female if they identify as female.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Absolute nonsense, you see what is presented to you.
The way people present themselves at the events I mentioned is seen by me because it simply is as I said perverse.
Are you telling me someone else will see a Mardi gra differently, what do they see then, a group wearing business suits.
It’s the majority that present themselves in this Sam smith style of get up.
They are not doing the community any favours with this behaviour.
I am not judging them, a higher power will, but I certainly can have an opinion.

Oh, I've read enough of your posts to know that you do indeed judge. Repeatedly and venomously.

 

[Madmogwai]

Your definition is self-referential. You cannot use a word "female" as part of a definition of a woman.


Like your delusion that woman can't be women if they can't have babies?

No I said woman that cannot have babies are still woman, just a defect.
Don’t lie about what I said.

 

[Madmogwai]

Oh, I've read enough of your posts to know that you do indeed judge. Repeatedly and venomously.

And you are judging yes

 

[Madmogwai]

Well, strictly speaking, yes. Which is something we do all the time. We use female pronoun for ships, for example. We can use female pronouns for lots of things.

Socially however, no. A person should only be called female if they identify as female.

Can a man who identifies as a woman give birth, and don’t pull the pathetic argument that some woman cannot give birth, you know they have the tools but are damaged.
Can a man give birth if he identifies as a woman.
No he cannot, because he is not just a label.