What is the Authority of the New Testament?

[Ebionite]

Romans 5:12, " Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

Romans 5:12 draws from Paul's proposition that all men are liars (Romans 3:4), which draws from Paul's implied misrepresentation of David's sin (Paul uses the text from the Septuagint, not the Masoretic that is used in the KJV).

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Romans 3:4

Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done [this] evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, [and] be clear when thou judgest.
Psalms 51:4

Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, [even] the sure mercies of David.
Behold, I have given him [for] a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
Isaiah 55:3-4

 

[jimb]

Romans 5:12 draws from Paul's proposition that all men are liars (Romans 3:4), which draws from Paul's implied misrepresentation of David's sin (Paul uses the text from the Septuagint, not the Masoretic that is used in the KJV).

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Romans 3:4

Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done [this] evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, [and] be clear when thou judgest.
Psalms 51:4

Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, [even] the sure mercies of David.
Behold, I have given him [for] a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
Isaiah 55:3-4

Thes Septuagint was the Bible in use during Paul's time, so of course he quotes from it. It was also the Bible that Jesus used!

The Bible that you quote from is a politically-motivated translation from the early 17th century, based on a limited number of sources.

You are clearly rationalizing to create doctrine. Paul wrote more of the New Testament than anyone else and, aside from being Jewish scholar, was personally chosen by Jesus Christ to deliver His message. Those are excellent credentials!

What are yours?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Romans 5:12, " Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned

.... and thankfully at 1st Cor. 15:21 informs us that as death came through 'a' man (aka Adam - Gen. 3:17) resurrection of the dead also comes through a man: The Son of Man aka Christ Jesus who is the Resurrection and the Life......... - John 11:25

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Romans 5:12, " Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

.... and correspondingly at Romans 3:23 death is because " For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
There is No one who never sins - Ecclesiastes 7:20
So, denying or rejecting sin does Not prove there is No sin, just as a broken thermometer does Not prove No fever
Since we can't stop sinning, only through God's arranged means: His 'Son for Salvation' can forgive and pardon one's sins

 

[IndigoChild5559]

There is No one who never sins - Ecclesiastes 7:20

Contradictions occur. Noah was said to be "a righteous man, blameless in his generation" Job was "blameless and upright."

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Contradictions occur. Noah was said to be "a righteous man, blameless in his generation" Job was "blameless and upright."

King David too also ended up being considered as righteous
Genesis 8:21 B lets up know that God knows our fallen hearts - 2nd Peter 2:5
Job too knew that according to Job 32:2 B
So, in God's eyes one who is 'truly repentant' can be referred to as righteous or blameless

( P.S. none of the above were classed as saints /holy ones - Daniel 7:18 )

 

[IndigoChild5559]

King David too also ended up being considered as righteous
Genesis 8:21 B lets up know that God knows our fallen hearts - 2nd Peter 2:5
Job too knew that according to Job 32:2 B
So, in God's eyes one who is 'truly repentant' can be referred to as righteous or blameless

( P.S. none of the above were classed as saints /holy ones - Daniel 7:18 )

I completely agree that the person who repents is righteous. However, I think words like perfect and blameless are very different.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I completely agree that the person who repents is righteous. However, I think words like perfect and blameless are very different.

Seems that in Scripture perfect can mean: sinless or without sin
Adam and Jesus both started out perfect ( sinless )
Perfect Jesus ended up blameless
Adam ended up loosing his perfection and was No longer blameless
Since we are all born after blameworthy fallen-father Adam sinned we needed someone to step in for us
Faithful Jesus, as the Son of Salvation, can fulfill that role for us
I suppose one could say that Jesus is also the Son of Solution for us

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Seems that in Scripture perfect can mean: sinless or without sin
Adam and Jesus both started out perfect ( sinless )

Wouldn't you agree that everyone starts out perfect? I can't think of a single baby that has sinned.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Wouldn't you agree that everyone starts out perfect? I can't think of a single baby that has sinned.

Unless in denial, every parent knows their baby will be needing correction/guidance because our leanings are towards / wrongdoing
( one person told me just try taking candy away from a baby at mealtime )

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I completely agree that the person who repents is righteous. However, I think words like perfect and blameless are very different.

Yes, Adam started out perfect ( with out sin )
Adam was No longer blameless after he broke God's Law
Due to inherited adamic imperfection when we sin even by accident, Not on purpose, we are still blameworthy for wrongdoing
Because we are innocent of what father Adam did is why God sent pre-human heavenly Jesus to Earth for us.
Because we can't stop sinning ( either on purpose or not ) is why we need help to stop sinning
Sinless faithful perfect-and-blameless Jesus balanced the Scales of Justice for us, so that we can be forgiven

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Unless in denial, every parent knows their baby will be needing correction/guidance because our leanings are towards / wrongdoing
( one person told me just try taking candy away from a baby at mealtime )

I raised two children. I can't think of a single instance in the first year of either of their lives that they did something wrong.

 

[jimb]

I raised two children. I can't think of a single instance in the first year of either of their lives that they did something wrong.

You must have truly exceptional children (plural). I know of no parent who can make such a bizarre statement! Not a single instance???

BTW, I raised two children and have two grandchildren. They were all great kids at age one and each of them did at least one thing wrong in the first year of their life!

 

[Ebionite]

Thes Septuagint was the Bible in use during Paul's time, so of course he quotes from it. It was also the Bible that Jesus used!

A proto-Masoretic text was used in some cases.

Wayback Machine

web.archive.org

 

[jimb]

A proto-Masoretic text was used in some cases.

Wayback Machine

web.archive.org

Did you happen to read the author's disclaimer at the bottom? He freely admits that he is not an expert in the Biblical languages. He has no formal training in ancient languages; he is a physicist. So your "proof" is nonsense.

 

[Ebionite]

So your "proof" is nonsense.

What idiot said anything about proof?

 

[jimb]

What idiot said anything about proof?

So you're deliberately lying???

 

[Ebionite]

So you're deliberately lying???

Can you quote anything that I said that was false?

 

[jimb]

Can you quote anything that I said that was false?

You are trying to prove that Jesus didn't use the Septuagint as the Bible by referring to a study done by a physicist who clearly states that he is not an expert! Therefore, what you wrote about a proto-Masoretic text has no value.

 

[Ebionite]

You are trying to prove that Jesus didn't use the Septuagint as the Bible by referring to a study done by a physicist who clearly states that he is not an expert! Therefore, what you wrote about a proto-Masoretic text has no value.

I'm not trying to prove that. Whether or no you consider it to be of value is irrelevant - the point is that some gospel quotes don't conform to the language used by the Septuagint and would most probably have originated from a proto-Masoretic text.

You have no basis to accuse me of lying.