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What is the day of judgment per Quran?

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Do you agree that the verses in Surrah of Waqiah are about Judgement Day and we have only One Judgement Day?
There is other type of judgment day events, which is when for example, the people Hud (a) get destroyed. The Messengers would pray that God judges their people with truth.

The "hour" in Quran is not always day of judgment. Sometimes it's about the threat Mohammad's (s) people were facing of destruction as in a warned about hour, and sometimes it is about the Mahdi (a) by context.

You have to see the context.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
There is other type of judgment day events, which is when for example, the people Hud (a) get destroyed. The Messengers would pray that God judges their people with truth.

The "hour" in Quran is not always day of judgment. Sometimes it's about the threat Mohammad's (s) people were facing of destruction as in a warned about hour, and sometimes it is about the Mahdi (a) by context.

You did not read the Hadith, did you?



You seem to conveniently ignore it.



It was about the term "yawm Al-Deen"



And showed it to you that, according to Hadithes, it means the Mahdi.



All Muslims agree, Yawmi Deen, is Judgment Day. Hadith says, it is the Day of Mahdi.

Thus, it is proved to you, again and again, that the Baha'i belief is in agreement with how Imams had interpreted the Quran, but your way of understanding is different from how the Hsdithes explain.



But upto you what you want to believe.
You have to see the context.

Yap, tell me which verse in Surrah of Waqiah is not about Day of Mahdi within the context.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Why would they condemn themselves about it if they see themselves as righteous?
That is the result of their choices. Every Messenger is rejected by the Priests, those that see they are righteous in their actions against the Messenger. Those acts taken against the Messenger are the choices that condemn them.

The words of a Christian priest, condemning Muhammad from a pulpit, are the words that condemn his own self, as Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) is a Messenger from God and the Quran is the Word of God.

Regards Tony
 

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Premium Member
That is the result of their choices. Every Messenger is rejected by the Priests, those that see they are righteous in their actions against the Messenger. Those acts taken against the Messenger are the choices that condemn them.

The words of a Christian priest, condemning Muhammad from a pulpit, are the words that condemn his own self, as Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) is a Messenger from God and the Quran is the Word of God.

Regards Tony
Okay, I'm talking about them deeming themselves righteous per you. Why do the verses have it them condemning themselves?
 

Link

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Premium Member
I don't know the answer to that and am unsure of these hadiths meaning if they are true. But I know Quran shows the day of judgment is also the day the witnesses will stand which is similar to the word of Qaim and people will know the truth of the Welayat that day. It's the day Ali (a) truth will be known and same with the Mahdi's (a) truth.

Recall the reward verses are about Welayat of Ahlulbayt (a) and is an accusation. In Surah Saad, it says:

وَلَتَعْلَمُنَّ نَبَأَهُ بَعْدَ حِينٍ | and you will surely learn its tidings in due time.’ | Saad : 88


And regarding the verse:

وَقِفُوهُمْ ۖ إِنَّهُمْ مَسْئُولُونَ | [But first] stop them! For they must be questioned.’ | As-Saaffaat : 24

It's said they will be questioned about Welayat Ali (a) first at this point.

Also some hadiths show every Imam is a Qaim, but then there is "the Qaim". Sometimes, it refers to more of generic sense.

And Quran talks about how each people will be called by their Imam/witness/driver on the day of judgement. So here in the hadith you quoted it can be more generic, and for example Ibrahim (a) and Isa (a) would both be Qaims of their time, and people will be called with them who lived during their times on earth.

@InvestigateTruth you must have missed this post.
 

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7ـ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنِ ابْنِ مَحْبُوبٍ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ يَزِيدَ الْجُعْفِيِّ عَنْ ابي جعفر (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) قَالَ سُئِلَ عَنِ الْقَائِمِ (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) فَضَرَبَ بِيَدِهِ عَلَى أَبِي عَبْدِ الله (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) فَقَالَ هَذَا وَالله قَائِمُ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ (صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِه) قَالَ عَنْبَسَةُ فَلَمَّا قُبِضَ أَبُو جَعْفَرٍ (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) دَخَلْتُ عَلَى أَبِي عَبْدِ الله (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) فَأَخْبَرْتُهُ بِذَلِكَ فَقَالَ صَدَقَ جَابِرٌ ثُمَّ قَالَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَرَوْنَ أَنْ لَيْسَ كُلُّ إِمَامٍ هُوَ الْقَائِمَ بَعْدَ الامَامِ الَّذِي كَانَ قَبْلَهُ.

7. Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from ibn Mahbub from Hisham ibn Salim from Jabur ibn Yazid al-Ju‘fi who has said the following: "A question was asked of Abu Ja‘far (a.s.) about al-Qa’im (the twelfth Imam (a.s.). He (Abu Ja‘far) tapped (at the shoulder of) Abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) and said, 'This, by Allah, is the Qa’im (one who will establish the kingdom of Allah) of the family of Muhammad (s.w.).' ‘Anbasa has said, 'When Abu Ja‘far passed away, went to see Abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) and told him of what I had heard (from Jabir). The Imam said, 'Jabir has spoken the truth.' He then said, 'You perhaps think that the every succeeding Imam after a preceding Imam is not al-Qa’im .'

Al-Kāfi - Volume 1, Tacit and Explicit Testimony as proof of abu ‘Abdallah Ja‘far ibn Muhammad al-Sadiq’s (a.s.) Divine Authority over the people after Muhammad ibn Ali ibn al-Husayn (a.s.), Hadith #7


1ـ عِدَّةٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِنَا عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عِيسَى عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ الْحَكَمِ عَنْ زَيْدٍ أَبِي الْحَسَنِ عَنِ الْحَكَمِ بْنِ أَبِي نُعَيْمٍ قَالَ أَتَيْتُ أَبَا جَعْفَرٍ (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) وَهُوَ بِالْمَدِينَةِ فَقُلْتُ لَهُ عَلَيَّ نَذْرٌ بَيْنَ الرُّكْنِ وَالْمَقَامِ إِنْ أَنَا لَقِيتُكَ أَنْ لا أَخْرُجَ مِنَ الْمَدِينَةِ حَتَّى أَعْلَمَ أَنَّكَ قَائِمُ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ أَمْ لا فَلَمْ يُجِبْنِي بِشَيْ‏ءٍ فَأَقَمْتُ ثَلاثِينَ يَوْماً ثُمَّ اسْتَقْبَلَنِي فِي طَرِيقٍ فَقَالَ يَا حَكَمُ وَإِنَّكَ لَهَاهُنَا بَعْدُ فَقُلْتُ نَعَمْ إِنِّي أَخْبَرْتُكَ بِمَا جَعَلْتُ لله عَلَيَّ فَلَمْ تَأْمُرْنِي وَلَمْ تَنْهَنِي عَنْ شَيْ‏ءٍ وَلَمْ تُجِبْنِي بِشَيْ‏ءٍ فَقَالَ بَكِّرْ عَلَيَّ غُدْوَةً الْمَنْزِلَ فَغَدَوْتُ عَلَيْهِ فَقَالَ (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) سَلْ عَنْ حَاجَتِكَ فَقُلْتُ إِنِّي جَعَلْتُ لله عَلَيَّ نَذْراً وَصِيَاماً وَصَدَقَةً بَيْنَ الرُّكْنِ وَالْمَقَامِ إِنْ أَنَا لَقِيتُكَ أَنْ لا أَخْرُجَ مِنَ الْمَدِينَةِ حَتَّى أَعْلَمَ أَنَّكَ قَائِمُ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ أَمْ لا فَإِنْ كُنْتَ أَنْتَ رَابَطْتُكَ وَإِنْ لَمْ تَكُنْ أَنْتَ سِرْتُ فِي الارْضِ فَطَلَبْتُ الْمَعَاشَ فَقَالَ يَا حَكَمُ كُلُّنَا قَائِمٌ بِأَمْرِ الله قُلْتُ فَأَنْتَ الْمَهْدِيُّ قَالَ كُلُّنَا نَهْدِي إِلَى الله قُلْتُ فَأَنْتَ صَاحِبُ السَّيْفِ قَالَ كُلُّنَا صَاحِبُ السَّيْفِ وَوَارِثُ السَّيْفِ قُلْتُ فَأَنْتَ الَّذِي تَقْتُلُ أَعْدَاءَ الله وَيَعِزُّ بِكَ أَوْلِيَاءُ الله وَيَظْهَرُ بِكَ دِينُ الله فَقَالَ يَا حَكَمُ كَيْفَ أَكُونُ أَنَا وَقَدْ بَلَغْتُ خَمْساً وَأَرْبَعِينَ سَنَةً وَإِنَّ صَاحِبَ هَذَا الامْرِ أَقْرَبُ عَهْداً بِاللَّبَنِ مِنِّي وَأَخَفُّ عَلَى ظَهْرِ الدَّابَّةِ.

1. A number of our people has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from Ali ibn al-Hakam from Zayd ibn abu al-Hassan from al-Hakam ibn abu Nu‘aym’ who has said the following. “I went to see abu Ja‘far (a.s.) when he was in the city of al-Madina and I said to him, “I decided to make a vow and a covenant, while I was between the corner of the Ka‘ba and the place where Abraham had prayed, that when I would meet you I would not leave al-Madina until I would know with certainty that you are Al-Qa’im (the one who will rise with Divine Authority). The Imam (a.s.) did not say anything. I then stayed in the city of al-Madina for thirty days. One day he came face to face on a road. He said, “O al-Hakam, are you still here?” I said, “Yes, I am still here. I had explained to you about my vow and commitment and you did not command me anything or prohibited from anything nor did you answer me with anything.” The Imam (a.s.) then said, “Early tomorrow come to my house.” Next morning I went to see him and he said to me, “Ask what you need.” I said, “I have a commitment of vow, of fasting and paying charity. I had decided to fulfill it, while I was between the corner of the Ka‘ba and the station of Abraham. Its object was that when I would meet you I would not leave until I would know with certainty that you are Al-Qa’im (the one who will rise with Divine Authority) or not. If you would be him I would then maintain relations with you, otherwise, I would go in the land to find how to make a living.” The Imam (a.s.) said, “O Hakam, we all are Al-Qa’im (the one who will rise with Divine Authority) for the commands of Allah.” I then said, “Are you al-Mahdi?” He said, “We all guide to Allah.” I said, “Are you the owner of the sword?” He said, “We all are owners of the sword the heir of the sword.” I said, “Are the one who would do away with enemies of Allah, through whom honor will come to the friends of Allah and with whom the religion of Allah would stand supreme?” The Imam (a.s.) said, “O Hakam how could I be him. I have already become forty five years old while the master of this task would be much younger than me and much light for saddle of the horse.”

Al-Kāfi - Volume 1, All the Imams (a.s.) rise for and with authority of Allah, the Most High and guide to Him Allah, Hadith #1

2ـ الْحُسَيْنُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ الاشْعَرِيُّ عَنْ مُعَلَّى بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنِ الْوَشَّاءِ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ عَائِذٍ عَنْ أَبِي خَدِيجَةَ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ الله (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) أَنَّهُ سُئِلَ عَنِ الْقَائِمِ فَقَالَ كُلُّنَا قَائِمٌ بِأَمْرِ الله وَاحِدٌ بَعْدَ وَاحِدٍ حَتَّى يَجِي‏ءَ صَاحِبُ السَّيْفِ فَإِذَا جَاءَ صَاحِبُ السَّيْفِ جَاءَ بِأَمْرٍ غَيْرِ الَّذِي كَانَ.

2. Al-Husayn ibn Muhammad al-Ash‘ari has narrated from Mu‘alla ibn Muhammad from al-Washsha’ from Ahmad ibn ‘A’idh from abu Khadija from abu ‘Abdallah who has said the following. “He said, when he was asked about Al-Qa’im, “We all Al-Qa’im ((the one who will rise with Divine Authority) with the command of Allah one after the other until the time when the owner of the sword will rise. When the owner of the sword will rise he will rise with the command other than what it was.”

Al-Kāfi - Volume 1, All the Imams (a.s.) rise for and with authority of Allah, the Most High and guide to Him Allah, Hadith #2


3ـ عَلِيُّ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ سَهْلِ بْنِ زِيَادٍ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْحَسَنِ بْنِ شَمُّونٍ عَنْ عَبْدِ الله بْنِ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ عَنْ عَبْدِ الله بْنِ الْقَاسِمِ الْبَطَلِ عَنْ عَبْدِ الله بْنِ سِنَانٍ قَالَ قُلْتُ لابِي عَبْدِ الله (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) يَوْمَ نَدْعُوا كُلَّ أُناسٍ بِإِمامِهِمْ قَالَ إِمَامِهِمُ الَّذِي بَيْنَ أَظْهُرِهِمْ وَهُوَ قَائِمُ أَهْلِ زَمَانِهِ.

3. Ali ibn Muhammad has narrated from Sahl ibn Ziyad from Muhammad ibn al-Hassan ibn Shammun from ‘Abdallah ibn ‘Abd al-Rahman from ‘Abdallah ibn al-Qasim al-Batal from ‘Abdallah ibn Sinan who has said the following. “I asked abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) about the meaning of , ‘On the day when We will call every nation with her Imam (leader) . .” (17:71) The Imam (a.s.) said, “It refers to the Imam who is with them and he is al-Qa’im of the people of that time.”

Al-Kāfi - Volume 1, All the Imams (a.s.) rise for and with authority of Allah, the Most High and guide to Him Allah, Hadith #3



I'm saying Imam Ali (a) might have meant it more generic form, since the day of judgment is the day everyone witnesses the truth from their Imam and witnesses the truth of their Imam of time.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
I don't know the answer to that and am unsure of these hadiths meaning if they are true.

I know why Shias may have doubts about such Hadithes that says, Day Judgement is the Day of Mahdi.

it is because they are taught that, there will be these events:

1. Mahdi comes

2. Rajat begins

3. after a long time, Judgement Day comes.

so, now, you do not see how, the Judgement Day can be the same as Mahdi. After all you are told they are different.

i don't have that issue as Shias have.
while I accept the three events above, yet, I also see how the Day of Resurrection is the same as Mahdi:

1. The Bab manifests. This is the 12th Imam. The Qaim, the Mahdi. The Day of Resurrection. Day of Judgment.

2. Some believe and some disbelieve in Him, in His time.
The believers and His companions are Metaphorically the return of Companions of Muhammad, and His enemies are Metaphorically return of Enemies of Muhammad and Imams. This is the period of Rajat. The Bab is martyred in Seven years.

3. Baha'u'llah appears, and His mission begins. This is the Day of Resurrection that comes after the Mahdi. It is, the Judgement Day. It is the Day, the Qaim Rises after He died. It is also the Day known as Retun of Christ, Ruling for 40 years.


hence, there are two day

But I know Quran shows the day of judgment is also the day the witnesses will stand which is similar to the word of Qaim and people will know the truth of the Welayat that day. It's the day Ali (a) truth will be known and same with the Mahdi's (a) truth.

Recall the reward verses are about Welayat of Ahlulbayt (a) and is an accusation. In Surah Saad, it says:

وَلَتَعْلَمُنَّ نَبَأَهُ بَعْدَ حِينٍ | and you will surely learn its tidings in due time.’ | Saad : 88

This verse according to Imam Sadiq or Baghir is, allusion to the Time, the Promised Day comes.


وَلَتَعْلَمُنَّ نَبَأَهُ بَعْدَ حِينٍ

and you will surely learn its tidings after a Time.

After a Time, or حین. This is the secret, and is revealed in Baha'i scriptures.

حين has a numerical value of 68 in Abjad. After حین، means, 69. It is allusion to the year 1269. This is the year, Baha'u'llah's mission began according to Bahai history.



And regarding the verse:

وَقِفُوهُمْ ۖ إِنَّهُمْ مَسْئُولُونَ | [But first] stop them! For they must be questioned.’ | As-Saaffaat : 24

It's said they will be questioned about Welayat Ali (a) first at this point.

Also some hadiths show every Imam is a Qaim, but then there is "the Qaim". Sometimes, it refers to more of generic sense.

And Quran talks about how each people will be called by their Imam/witness/driver on the day of judgement. So here in the hadith you quoted it can be more generic, and for example Ibrahim (a) and Isa (a) would both be Qaims of their time, and people will be called with them who lived during their times on earth.

In every Age, when the Judgement Day came, God sent them an Imam, a guide, a messenger. It is not like, there will be a future Day, and different Ummahs will be literally resurrected, and their Messengers are resurrected, and gives them their letter. This interpretation is imagination.
Your Imams did not say these things. Your Ulama made up Tafseers. Their Tafseers became viral among Muslims. Muslims thought that's what Quran means. Now, in my view, the Qa'im has come, He made it clear what Day of Resurrection, Day of Rajat, etc mean.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
And Quran talks about how each people will be called by their Imam/witness/driver on the day of judgement. So here in the hadith you quoted it can be more generic, and for example Ibrahim (a) and Isa (a) would both be Qaims of their time, and people will be called with them who lived during their times on earth.

Maniul Akhbar: Ibne Walid has narrated from Saffar from Ahmad bin Muhammad from Uthman bin Isa from Salih bin Mitham from Abaya Asadi that he heard Amirul Momineen (a.s.) say reclining on a pillow, while I stood before him:

“We will definitely construct a pulpit in Egypt and destroy Damascus and remove the Jews and Christians from each corner of the Arab world and drive all the Arabs through this staff.”

Abaya says: I asked: O Amirul Momineen (a.s.), as if you want to say that you will return after death?

He replied, “It is not so, O Abaya, as you think; a man from me (my descendants) would perform these tasks
.”

This Hadith is a a clear Hadith.
 

Link

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Premium Member
In every Age, when the Judgement Day came, God sent them an Imam, a guide, a messenger. It is not like, there will be a future Day, and different Ummahs will be literally resurrected, and their Messengers are resurrected, and gives them their letter. This interpretation is imagination.
Your Imams did not say these things.
I should make a thread about what Imams (A) said about day of judgment. A good place to look is Sahifa Sajjadiya to start with.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
The verse before talks "if occurs the event", you would render the previous verse meaningless. It's specific to the timeframe of it's occurrence.

It says, there is no lie about its occurrence. Not that, when it happens, no body denys it.

I think you are reading more than what it says.

1. When the inevitable event takes place

2. There is no lying about its befalling

3. Some abased, some Exalted


These verse are in short form and allusions.

As I understand It means, when the Event Happens, then it will be announced to them this is the Day there is no lying about its happening.
But it does not say "it will be announced to them" in this Surrah. This Surrah is all allusions and short form.

indtead you can see from other Surrahs, when the Day comes, they will be told, this is what you took as False, and not it happened.


Also, it does not say Allah (swt) and Rasool (s) didn't lie. It says there is no lie/denial.

Right, it does not.
It wants to assure Muslims that it will certainly come to pass. So, when the next Messenger comes and says "this is the Day of Resurrection", they don't say "we were not made aware".
Remember Day of Alast?

You are not considering why the Quran speaks in allusion, and what is the Wisdom of that.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
And if someone denies it or calls it a lie, isn't a lie about it's occurrence?
Let me explain it this way:

Most People think, Judgement Day is a lie. It is a fairytale.
But when it happens, and announced to them, then, it was not a lie. It was the the truth, even if no one believes it.
 

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Let me explain it this way:

Most People think, Judgement Day is a lie. It is a fairytale.
But when it happens, and announced to them, then, it was not a lie. It was the the truth, even if no one believes it.

That's a difference sentence. You are changing it from original. The sentence would be "ina waqatahu laysa kathiba"
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
That's a difference sentence. You are changing it from original. The sentence would be "ina waqatahu laysa kathiba"

But, I am saying, the verses are making allusion that:
when the event came to pass, the Messenger will tell them, this is the event: "There is no lying about its happening"

As I showed you, Baha'u'llah did so.

This is consistent with the other verse that, you said it is about Rajat.
To me, Day of Mahdi, Rajat and Judgement are all closely connected.
When it comes to pass, God will cause a Creature to announce that is happening.

Anyways, we can agree to disagree.
I also understand you point. You are reading the first two verses, as complete.
I am reading them, as allusions.
 

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Veteran Member
Premium Member
But, I am saying, the verses are making allusion that:
when the event came to pass, the Messenger will tell them, this is the event: "There is no lying about its happening"

As I showed you, Baha'u'llah did so.

This is consistent with the other verse that, you said it is about Rajat.
To me, Day of Mahdi, Rajat and Judgement are all closely connected.
When it comes to pass, God will cause a Creature to announce that is happening.

Anyways, we can agree to disagree.
I also understand you point. You are reading the first two verses, as complete.
I am reading them, as allusions.

You have to change original meaning. Otherwise original meaning is impossible with Bahai Faith. I can see what you trying to say the sentence is saying. But it's not really possible.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
You have to change original meaning. Otherwise original meaning is impossible with Bahai Faith. I can see what you trying to say the sentence is saying. But it's not really possible.

To me it makes sense.
You read it too literally.
My view is, these are allusions. Not to be taken too literally.


Otherwise what benefit it has to say, when it happens no one can deny it?

You scaped answering this question, which I asked you before.

How that adds any value, or guidance to say that, when it happens "you cannot deny"? There must be a logic to it.

Also, about these verses:

In Gardens, they will question one another about the criminals: What led you into Hell? They will say: We were not of those who prayed, nor did we feed the poor. We used to indulge in vain discourse with those who indulged in it, and we used to deny the Day of Judgment until the certainty (death) came to us. So, no intercession of the intercessors will benefit them)] (Surah Al-Muddathir, 40-48).


How does it make sense that, People of Heaven and Hell can talk to each other so closely?
If you see these verses, the people of Heaven and Hell are in the same place physically, so they can talk like that.
It is their spritual status. Otherwise how can you have in one place Fire and boiling water, torture... then just next to it, People in Jannah, in the Garden, with nice weather and Rivers?
Beside that, your Imam said, these verses are about the Qaim.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
How that adds any value, or guidance to say that, when it happens "you cannot deny"? There must be a logic to it.
Miracles can be denied. Truth of Quran can be denied. God can be denied. But on the day of judgment, as other verses show, people sight will be like Iron towards the truth. So the event will take place in a way no room for denial. God could've created the whole world like this and guided us all together in this fashion. But he saved this type of manifestation of evidence for the final day, so as to be unseen/hidden, to a great degree so people can strive for what they earn. There are many of these verses all complimenting each other.

They will be submissive on this day. Other verses show they will ask to return and say they would obey the Messengers and follow them. Over all, all the verses we read about it make a cumulative and reinforcing case.

Over all it's just one verse, but it's verified through out. Here it begins saying it is such an event, that not even one denial of it will occur at it's occurrence. Every one will know it's true.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
How does it make sense that, People of Heaven and Hell can talk to each other so closely?

All souls live in all souls right now but in a hidden way. On day of judgment, that reality will be clear to all and witnessed vividly. It's the first rule of magic by any religion that believes in it. You have to believe everything is in everything. Without that, it's hard to believe in magical world.

When a person wants to look a soul, he can search and find it almost instantaneously. There is in the Quran for example, a person had a close companion who would mock him believing that he will be raised after he is dust and bone. Then he will be told to look and will see them and tell them they almost caused them to perish.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
@Link

I suggest, let's look at similar verses 84:1 -2"

إِذَا ٱلسَّمَآءُ ٱنشَقَّتْ
وَأَذِنَتْ لِرَبِّهَا وَحُقَّتْ

When the heaven is split asunder
obeying its Lord as it must

See, how these verses are? Here is what I am trying to say.

It is not like, if in the beginning of a verse there is اذا ، the next verse, must be read like "Then"

When the heaven is split asunder
obeying its Lord as it must


If we follow your way of reading, then these verses are meaningless too.

These verses are not like two parts of one sentence.

Now, look at the other two verses we are arguing.

You are basically reading it, as if, the two verses must alwayes be connected by a "then"

"When the Inevitable Event takes place, [then] no one can deny it has come."

But if you look at the example from 84:1-2, you see, it is not always the case that, the two verses are connected as "when....then"

Unless to you verse 84:1-2 are meaningless.

These verses have a sense of poetry in them, rather than literal wording.
 
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