What is the day of judgment per Quran?

[InvestigateTruth]

@Link

There is a difference to say "No one can deny it", than "there is no denial of its occurrence"

 

[Link]

Laysa says means there is none.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Laysa says means there is none.

"And when the decree ˹of the Hour˺ comes to pass against them, We will bring forth for them a Creature from the earth, telling them that the people had no sure faith in Our revelations." 27:82

 

[Link]

"And when the decree ˹of the Hour˺ comes to pass against them, We will bring forth for them a Creature from the earth, telling them that the people had no sure faith in Our revelations." 27:82

This about the Rajaat, and doesn't say "of the hour".

Focus on the verse in Surah Waqiah.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Laysa says means there is none.

If you look at other verses, there are examples, it also means "there is no".
Not necessarily there is no one. But there is no (of anything".

 

[Link]

If you look at other verses, there are examples, it also means "there is no".
Not necessarily there is no one. But there is no (of anything".

Yes it refers to denial, it means there will not be any denial of it's occurrence when it occurs.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

This about the Rajaat, and doesn't say "of the hour".

Focus on the verse in Surah Waqiah.

How do you know that without Hadith?
Remember, I asked you to bring a Hadith.
These two verses are about the same event.

 

[Link]

How do you know that without Hadith?
Remember, I asked you to bring a Hadith.
These two verses are about the same event.

You can know because the verses talk about a party of each people who disbelieve. While the day of judgment it says all will be gathered.

 

[Link]

These two verses are about the same event.

Suppose this is true, the "they use to deny our signs" is about what they use to do. It's not the same event, but it's like you to switch the topic.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Yes it refers to denial, it means there will not be any denial of it's occurrence when it occurs.

If you look at 96:16

"a lying, sinful forelock"

كاذبة
Actually means, "lying".
You are interpreting it to mean "Denial". That is possible, but not necessarily.

 

[Link]

If you look at 96:16

"a lying, sinful forelock"

كاذبة
Actually means, "lying".
You are interpreting it to mean "Denial". That is possible, but not necessarily.

The verse before says it somethings that occurs at it's occurrence. The "le" means towards it, so it has to be denial. But suppose it means "lie", there is no towards it a lie... it again is something that occurs at the event. So at the event, there is no lie towards it's occurrence. How is this true?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You can know because the verses talk about a party of each people who disbelieve. While the day of judgment it says all will be gathered.

Right, so, in the Surrah of the Waqia it is the same.


خَافِضَةࣱ رَّافِعَةٌ ۝٣

Abasing (some), exalting (others)

It means, when the Promised Day comes, some will be abased and some will be exalted. Those who would disbelieve in the new Revelation are abased and those who believe and follow the new Messenger are exalted.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The verse before says it somethings that occurs at it's occurrence. The "le" means towards it, so it has to be denial. But suppose it means "lie", there is no towards it a lie... it again is something that occurs at the event. So at the event, there is no lie towards it. How is this true?

I see it more like:

"There is no lying about its befalling"

The verses after that, then describes the event, explaining what is it that will happen. There is no lying about those signs that will come to pass.

It means, God is testifying about the truth of the Day of Resurrection.

This my understanding.
We can agree to disagree of you want.

 

[Link]

Right, so, in the Surrah of the Waqia it is the same.


خَافِضَةࣱ رَّافِعَةٌ ۝٣

Abasing (some), exalting (others)

It means, when the Promised Day comes, some will be abased and some will be exalted. Those who would disbelieve in the new Revelation are abased and those who believe and follow the new Messenger are exalted.

It's not the same event.

وَيَوْمَ نَحْشُرُ مِن كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ فَوْجًا مِّمَّن يُكَذِّبُ بِآيَاتِنَا فَهُمْ يُوزَعُونَ {83​

[27:83] And on the day when We will gather from every nation a group from among those who rejected Our signs, then they shall be kept in ranks.

Imam Sadiq [as] asked one of his companions what the people say regarding the above quoted verse. His companion replied: They say it’s about the Day of Judgement. The Imam replied: Would Allah gather [yahshur] (only) a group of every people and leave the rest?! Rather the verse is referring to Raj’ah, and the verse of Qiyamah is this : and We will gather them and leave not any one of them behind [18:47]. Bihar AlAnwar 53/40

 

[Link]

I see it more like:

"There is no lying about its befalling"

The verses after that, then describes the event, explaining what is it that will happen. There is no lying about those signs that will come to pass.

It means, God is testifying about the truth of the Day of Resurrection.

This my understanding.
We can agree to disagree of you want.

The verse before talks "if occurs the event", you would render the previous verse meaningless. It's specific to the timeframe of it's occurrence.

Also, it does not say Allah (swt) and Rasool (s) didn't lie. It says there is no lie/denial.

 

[Link]

And they shall say: O woe to us! this is the day of requital. 20This is the day of the judgment which you called a lie. 21Gather together those who were unjust and their associates, and what they used to worship 22Besides Allah, then lead them to the way to hell. 23And stop them, for they shall be questioned: 24What is the matter with you that you do not help each other? 25Nay! on that day they shall be submissive. 26And some of them shall advance towards others, questioning each other. 27They shall say: Surely you used to come to us from the right side. 28They shall say: Nay, you (yourselves) were not believers; 29And we had no authority over you, but you were an inordinate people; 30So the sentence of our Lord has come to pass against us: (now) we shall surely taste; 31So we led you astray, for we ourselves were erring. 32So they shall on that day be sharers in the chastisement one with another. 33Surely thus do We deal with the guilty. 34Surely they used to behave proudly when it was said to them: There is no god but Allah; 35And to say: What! shall we indeed give up our gods for the sake of a mad poet? 36Nay: he has come with the truth and verified the apostles. 37Most surely you will taste the painful punishment.

These verses show people of disbelief will not help one another but be submissive to God. Of course some of them will complain about being mislead by others. It also shows the sentence of God has come to pass and there is no avoiding hell at this point.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

@Link

I will get back to your posts above later.
But i have a question for you.

If we continue reading Surah of Waqiah, until we get the verse:

هَـٰذَا نُزُلُهُمۡ یَوۡمَ ٱلدِّین

"This will be their welcome on the Day of Judgment" 56:56

How many Judgement Day ( يوم الدين) are there in the Quran?

Do you agree that the verses in Surrah of Waqiah are about Judgement Day and we have only One Judgement Day?


Then why according to Hadithes, Judgement Day, is Day of Qaim, the Mahdi?

مختصر بصائر الدرجات: ص 26 - محمد بن الحسين بن أبي الخطاب، عن محمد بن سنان، عن عمار بن مسروق، عن المنخل بن جميل، عن جابر بن يزيد، عن أبي جعفر عليه السلام: - * * * [(في جنات يتساءلون. عن المجرمين. ما سلككم في سقر. قالوا لم نك من المصلين. ولم نك نطعم المسكين. وكنا نخوض مع الخائضين. وكنا نكذب بيوم الدين. حتى أتينا اليقين. فما تنفعهم شفاعة الشافعين)] (المدثر - 40 - 48).
أن يوم ظهور المهدي عليه السلام يوم الدين في الآية [1912 - (الإمام الصادق عليه السلام) " لم يكونوا من شيعة علي بن أبي طالب عليه السلام، ولم نك نطعم المسكين، وكنا نخوض مع الخائضين، وكنا نكذب بيوم الدين: فذلك يوم القائم وهو يوم الدين




**Mukhtasar Basair al-Darajat: Page 26 - Muhammad ibn al-Husayn ibn Abi al-Khattab, from Muhammad ibn Sinan, from Ammar ibn Masruq, from al-Munkhal ibn Jamil, from Jabir ibn Yazid, from Abu Ja'far (peace be upon him):**

- - - [(In Gardens, they will question one another about the criminals: What led you into Hell? They will say: We were not of those who prayed, nor did we feed the poor. We used to indulge in vain discourse with those who indulged in it, and we used to deny the Day of Judgment until the certainty (death) came to us. So, no intercession of the intercessors will benefit them)] (Surah Al-Muddathir, 40-48).

The day of the appearance of the Mahdi (peace be upon him) is the Day of Judgment in the verse.

**1912 - (Imam al-Sadiq, peace be upon him): "They were not from the Shia of Ali ibn Abi Talib (peace be upon him), nor did we feed the poor, and we used to indulge in vain discourse with those who indulged in it, and we used to deny the Day of Judgment: so, that is the day of the Qa'im (the Mahdi) and it is the Day of Judgment."

 

[Link]

I don't know the answer to that and am unsure of these hadiths meaning if they are true. But I know Quran shows the day of judgment is also the day the witnesses will stand which is similar to the word of Qaim and people will know the truth of the Welayat that day. It's the day Ali (a) truth will be known and same with the Mahdi's (a) truth.

Recall the reward verses are about Welayat of Ahlulbayt (a) and is an accusation. In Surah Saad, it says:

وَلَتَعْلَمُنَّ نَبَأَهُ بَعْدَ حِينٍ | and you will surely learn its tidings in due time.’ | Saad : 88


And regarding the verse:

وَقِفُوهُمْ ۖ إِنَّهُمْ مَسْئُولُونَ | [But first] stop them! For they must be questioned.’ | As-Saaffaat : 24

It's said they will be questioned about Welayat Ali (a) first at this point.

Also some hadiths show every Imam is a Qaim, but then there is "the Qaim". Sometimes, it refers to more of generic sense.

And Quran talks about how each people will be called by their Imam/witness/driver on the day of judgement. So here in the hadith you quoted it can be more generic, and for example Ibrahim (a) and Isa (a) would both be Qaims of their time, and people will be called with them who lived during their times on earth.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And they shall say: O woe to us! this is the day of requital. 20This is the day of the judgment which you called a lie. 21Gather together those who were unjust and their associates, and what they used to worship 22Besides Allah, then lead them to the way to hell. 23And stop them, for they shall be questioned: 24What is the matter with you that you do not help each other? 25Nay! on that day they shall be submissive. 26And some of them shall advance towards others, questioning each other. 27They shall say: Surely you used to come to us from the right side. 28They shall say: Nay, you (yourselves) were not believers; 29And we had no authority over you, but you were an inordinate people; 30So the sentence of our Lord has come to pass against us: (now) we shall surely taste; 31So we led you astray, for we ourselves were erring. 32So they shall on that day be sharers in the chastisement one with another. 33Surely thus do We deal with the guilty. 34Surely they used to behave proudly when it was said to them: There is no god but Allah; 35And to say: What! shall we indeed give up our gods for the sake of a mad poet? 36Nay: he has come with the truth and verified the apostles. 37Most surely you will taste the painful punishment.

These verses show people of disbelief will not help one another but be submissive to God. Of course some of them will complain about being mislead by others. It also shows the sentence of God has come to pass and there is no avoiding hell at this point.

I see that selection of passages up to and including verse 34 is telling us of how each faith having made themselves exclusive of other faiths, will be bathing in their own self rightness, each seeing they will be vindicated in their faith by Allah, but in fact, they are all facing the "Judgement Day".

Verse 19 & 20 says to me that on the day when they were expecting compensation for their faith, they are in fact facing the day of judgement. It is an age of fostering and submitting to multi faith relations, but each faith, still considering only they will be vindicated on the day of Judgement, still thinking the other has the lie.

Verse 35 tells all faiths of their reaction to God's Judgement, which is the New Messenger.

Verse 36 is Allah negating the reaction of those being judged and 37 is the warning of the punishment that the Judgement invokes.

The punishment the world is now reaps.

That is what I see in those passages.

There is a myriad of thoughts that can grow from these passages.

All the best, Regards Tony

 

[Link]

I see that selection of passages up to and including verse 34 is telling us of how each faith having made themselves exclusive of other faiths, will be bathing in their own self rightness, each seeing they will be vindicated in their faith by Allah, but in fact, they are all facing the "Judgement Day".

Verse 19 & 20 says to me that on the day when they were expecting compensation for their faith, they are in fact facing the day of judgement. It is an age of fostering and submitting to multi faith relations, but each faith, still considering only they will be vindicated on the day of Judgement, still thinking the other has the lie.

Verse 35 tells all faiths of their reaction to God's Judgement, which is the New Messenger.

Verse 36 is Allah negating the reaction of those being judged and 37 is the warning of the punishment that the Judgement invokes.

The punishment the world is now reaps.

That is what I see in those passages.

There is a myriad of thoughts that can grow from these passages.

All the best, Regards Tony

Why would they condemn themselves about it if they see themselves as righteous?