What is the day of judgment per Quran?

[Link]

What do you think about my explanation of the verses?

I think there is no difference to when Pharaoh saw the signs and denied Moses (a), and Musa (a) tells him "You very well know.." to what you are doing with Quran and your clinging to your religion. You know, but you don't want to accept.

But I will respond in greater detail when time permits.

 

[Link]

By "Hell" is meant remoteness from truth.

By the "Fire" is meant disunity and war among the Muslims.

Before I respond, my question, do bahais believe in hell or not? If you do, the context of hell verses and day of judgment go together in that the day of judgment is when people go hell in it's full form.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Before I respond, my question, do bahais believe in hell or not? If you do, the context of hell verses and day of judgment go together in that the day of judgment is when people go hell in it's full form.

I had explained this before.

Hell or Heaven are not about physical life after death, as understood by most people.
Hell and Heaven are metaphors. They are spiritual station.
Day of Resurrection is a Metaphor for Time of the Next Manifestation at the End of Islamic Dispensation.
Those who are successful in recognition of the new Manifestation, will enter Heaven.

But Heaven is not a place to enter.
It is a metaphor for the new Faith.

The new Faith, is Heaven metaphorically, because it has all the good things, such as Huris, Flowing wine, garden with fruits. All of these are metaphors for teachings and spiritual happiness that the believers would get if they recognize the new Manifestation and enter the garden (Baha'i Faith in this case as Bahais believe). Hell, is a metaphor. When on the Day of Resurrection, people dont do good deeds, and just blindly follow their forefathers, they will be in Hell. Hell is not a place. It is a metaphor for disbelief, and spiritual degradation. Hell is in this world. It is now. When God punishes them, when they go through wars, suffering, all of these are Hell, or Fire. This punishment or Hell, is the result of rejection of truth in our time. The purpose of Hell Fire, is to purify, and hopefully causes people to wake up from their spiritual sleep.

The Heaven or Hell that is promised in the Quran, is for Day of Resurrection at the End of Islam. But Hell and Heaven has not been specifically for End time of Islam. At the End of the Time of any of the previous Religions, Hell and Heaven was manifested. Consider what Jesus said:

"And no man hath ascended up to Heaven, but He that came down from Heaven, even the Son of Man who is in Heaven."

Consider, at that time, Jesus was on earth, but He said, son of Man is in Heaven!
And consider these verses of the Quran:

وَٱعْتَصِمُوا۟ بِحَبْلِ ٱللَّهِ جَمِيعًۭا وَلَا تَفَرَّقُوا۟ ۚ وَٱذْكُرُوا۟ نِعْمَتَ ٱللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ إِذْ كُنتُمْ أَعْدَآءًۭ فَأَلَّفَ بَيْنَ قُلُوبِكُمْ فَأَصْبَحْتُم بِنِعْمَتِهِۦٓ إِخْوَٰنًۭا وَكُنتُمْ عَلَىٰ شَفَا حُفْرَةٍۢ مِّنَ ٱلنَّارِ فَأَنقَذَكُم مِّنْهَا ۗ كَذَٰلِكَ يُبَيِّنُ ٱللَّهُ لَكُمْ ءَايَـٰتِهِۦ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَهْتَدُونَ ١٠٣

"Remember the blessing of Allah upon you: When you were enemies to each other, and He brought your hearts together, so that, you became brothers through His blessing. You were at the brink of a pit of Fire, then He saved you from it. This is how Allah makes His signs clear to you, so that you may take the right path." 3:103

Consider, it says, they were in the brink of pit of Fire (شفا حفرة من النار).


now consider these verses:


"Would I take any gods other than Him? if the Merciful intends me some harm, their intercession will not help me at all, nor can they save me.
36:24 I would then be clearly misguided.
36:25 I have believed in your Lord, so listen to me."
36:26 It was said [to him], "Enter Paradise." He said, "I wish that my people only knew
36:27 how my Lord has forgiven me and placed me among the highly honored."

Notice, this man, already entered Paradise! it is not like, there will be a Day, people physically will be resurrected, and then go to Heaven or Hell! No, once this man believed in the Messenger of the Time, he entered the Paradise, the Heaven, Al-jannah. Meaning he had entered the Faith of God!



This Hell and Heaven had always existed and manifested at the end of each Religion, in the same way, the Day of Resurrection had always come at end of each Religion. But people misunderstood these Symbolic Terms!

 

[InvestigateTruth]

But I will respond in greater detail when time permits.

I will await.

 

[Link]

If someone wanted to be serious about hell and heaven being reality in the way Muslims understand, how can they say it?

You make it impossible for God to say certain things.

 

[Link]

By the "Fire" is meant disunity and war among the Muslims.

Why are disbelievers limited to Muslims?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Why are disbelievers limited to Muslims?

Disbelievers are not limited to Muslims.
But, it is written in Holy Books, and in Hadithes, that, since Mahdi, is from the Ummah of Islam, and would be rejected and killed by them, they will receive more punishment, just as the Jews who killes Jesus, were punished severely as Quran said.

 

[Bthoth]

Disbelievers are not limited to Muslims.
But, it is written in Holy Books, and in Hadithes, that, since Mahdi, is from the Ummah of Islam, and would be rejected and killed by them, they will receive more punishment, just as the Jews who killes Jesus, were punished severely as Quran said.

which mahdi?

 

[Link]

Disbelievers are not limited to Muslims.
But, it is written in Holy Books, and in Hadithes, that, since Mahdi, is from the Ummah of Islam, and would be rejected and killed by them, they will receive more punishment, just as the Jews who killes Jesus, were punished severely as Quran said.

Okay, but how you derive the punishment here the fire for disbelievers, is about Muslims and not others.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

which mahdi?

Promised One in Muslims Hadithes is titled the Mahdi.

 

[Bthoth]

Promised One in Muslims Hadithes is titled the Mahdi.

Like a jesus to christians, a kalki to hindu and messiah to judaism?

Will that mahdi show up before or after a judgment day?

Male or female? Fly on a magic carpet or walking around?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Like a jesus to christians, a kalki to hindu and messiah to judaism?

Will that mahdi show up before or after a judgment day?

Male or female? Fly on a magic carpet or walking around?

Yes. I have been discussing this with @Link

My view as a Bahais is, the Mahdi already has come.
I have been showing that based on Verses of the Quran and Hadithes, the Day of Resurrection (aka Judgement Day) Is the same Day of Manifestation of the Mahdi (aka the Qaim)

 

[InvestigateTruth]

If someone wanted to be serious about hell and heaven being reality in the way Muslims understand, how can they say it?

You make it impossible for God to say certain things.

Why do you think, a Heaven which is a place with Huris, gardens, servants, river of wine is serious, but if by Heaven is meant, a new Revelation, a new Faith from God who creates a new human, is not serious?

Consider, when we die, our soul lives on in the spiritual world of God. How happy and healthy our soul will be, depends on how it was guided and followed teachings of God in this world. Now which is more serious? That, when we die, our soul will be weak, ill, and sad in the next world, isnt this Serious? Or the funny Hell that some imagine, a sadistic God who burns people just because they couldn't realize there is an invisible God?

 

[Link]

Why do you think, a Heaven which is a place with Huris, gardens, servants, river of wine is serious, but if by Heaven is meant, a new Revelation, a new Faith from God who creates a new human, is not serious?

Consider, when we die, our soul lives on in the spiritual world of God. How happy and healthy our soul will be, depends on how it was guided and followed teachings of God in this world. Now which is more serious? That, when we die, our soul will be weak, ill, and sad in the next world, isnt this Serious?

I asked a simple question which you avoided.

What words can be stated to give the literal understanding as Muslims believe about heaven and hell?

 

[Bthoth]

Yes. I have been discussing this with @Link

My view as a Bahais is, the Mahdi already has come.

The bap?

I have been showing that based on Verses of the Quran and Hadithes, the Day of Resurrection (aka Judgement Day) Is the same Day of Manifestation of the Mahdi (aka the Qaim)

Funny, bap shows up but no judgment day.

So basically, another jesus?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The bap?

Funny, bap shows up but no judgment day.

So basically, another jesus?

Yes, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.
The Bab was forerunner of Baha'u'llah.
The Bab was Mahdi, and Baha'u'llah Return of Christ.

Why do you think Judgement Day has not come? It has come.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I asked a simple question which you avoided.

What words can be stated to give the literal understanding as Muslims believe about heaven and hell?

I dont know. If God wanted to mean the Heaven and Hell in the way you are thinking, He would have, but that's not what He wanted.
He had said in the Quran that, some of the verses are Mutishabihat (unspecified, metaphors, symbols, allusions).

He did not say, that the verses regarding Hell and Heaven are Not Mutishabihat And they are literal.
Later, after a thousand years, He sent us the Mahdi, the Qaim as promised before, and through them, He says, those verses about Hell and Heaven are Mutishabihat, and their true interpretation is so and so.

Why do you think this cannot be the case?

 

[Link]

You don't think that's a problem? That you are unaware of any set of words that can be said to convince you of the hell and heaven as believed by Muslims?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Okay, but how you derive the punishment here the fire for disbelievers, is about Muslims and not others.

The verses in Surrah of the believers is about the Time of the Qaim:

[(فإذا نفخ في الصور فلا أنساب بينهم يومئذ ولا يتسائلون)] (المؤمنون - 101). توريث الاخوة في الدين في عصر المهدي عليه السلام [1697 - (الامام الكاظم عليه السلام) " إن الله تبارك وتعالى خلق الارواح قبل الابدان بألفي عام، ثم خلق الابدان بعد ذلك، فما تعارف منها في السماء تعارف في الارض وما تناكر منها في السماء تناكر في الارض، فإذا قام القائم ورث الاخ في الدين، ولم يورث الاخ في الولادة، وذلك قول الله عزوجل في كتابه: قد أفلح المؤمنون.. فإذا نفخ في الصور فلا أنساب بينهم يومئذ ولا يتسائلون "]

معجم أحاديث الإمام المهدي ع - الكوراني العاملي، الشيخ علي - کتابخانه مدرسه فقاهت

lib.eshia.ir

It is about, brotherhood in Islam. those Muslims who believe in the Qaim and those who do not, they will be separated as a result. So, even if they were two brothers, one believes and another disbelieves, their brotherhood relationship is cut off.

فإذا نفخ في الصور فلا أنساب بينهم يومئذ ولا
يتسائلون)] (المؤمنون - 101ث​

This is why, it says, when trumpet is blown, there won't be any relationship between them. Meaning, the New Revelation, separates those who believe and disbelieve, even if they are father and son.
Then, those who disbelieve, will be in Fire.

Beside this, there are many Hadithes that says, most Muslims will be in Fire, accept the Ones who aregathered.in a gathering.
Meaning those who are gathered in one common faith that is established by the Qaim. I had already posted these Hadithes before.

Prophet said:

"My ummah will divide into 73 sects, all of them will be in the Fire except for one, and that is the Jamā'ah.” ·

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You don't think that's a problem? That you are unaware of any set of words that can be said to convince you of the hell and heaven as believed by Muslims?

No. Because God does not and cannot say or do illogical things.