What is wrong with Islam?

[The_Fisher_King]

Religin and politics generally deal with different things but it's certainly not impossible for either to become integrated with the other. Constantine did the same with Christianity back in roman days. To me, not separating them is like saying that god really cares about mans politics which I might debate about.

What is your definition of religion?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

One difference I see with Islam is that it's adherents seem to be much more in denial than adherents of other religions. Let me give you an example:

The best estimates I've heard are that BOTH Muslims and Christians have committed 200-300 MILLION murders over the last 1300 years - that's EACH - in the name of their religion.

I've debated this claim many times with Christians and with Muslims. Many Christians have come to understand and largely agree with the claim. I have never once - after many debates and discussions - had a single Muslim agree with the claim.

Not sure about murders but I can certainly run with the idea that both Muslims and Christians have been responsible for 200-300 million (or more) deaths over the last 1300 years each in the name of their religion.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Islam is the only so called religion that is a current and present danger to western society.

Some Muslims and their ideas about Islaam, maybe, but not 'Islaam'.

 

[Notanumber]

Some Muslims and their ideas about Islaam, maybe, but not 'Islaam'.

If there was no Islam there would be no problem.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It would not surprise me if Hitler got some of his ideas from the Quran and Muhammad.

If you ever take the time to read Mein Kampf, it is filled with "Lord Jesus," "my savior," "God's will," God's work," the man was very Christian and he considered what he was doing was for God and Country.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

 

[idav]

What is your definition of religion?

The way or path.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

If there was no Islam there would be no problem.

Your opinion.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

The way or path.

And there is no place for politics in that?

 

[icehorse]

There are 1.7 billion beautiful Muslim innocent everyday Muslims in the world who have done no wrong, committed no crime towards us and live their lives just like we do and all they want is to live in peace with us. They are mostly good and upright people because that is what Muhammad and the Quran teaches them.

I am a Baha'i. We have suffered persecution in Iran for over 170 years so I know more than most the nature of fanatics.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, but doesn't your 2nd paragraph disagree with your 1st paragraph?

 

[sovietchild]

If there was no Islam there would be no problem.

 

[icehorse]

Not sure about murders but I can certainly run with the idea that both Muslims and Christians have been responsible for 200-300 million (or more) deaths over the last 1300 years each in the name of their religion.

When Christians or Muslims invade another country to spread their religion, by my definition, any invadee who gets killed in the process was murdered.

For example, millions of Native Americans were murdered by Christians "spreading the word". Likewise, millions of Hindus were murdered by Muslims "spreading the word".

Christians tend not to deny this, Muslims tend to deny this.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

When Christians or Muslims invade another country to spread their religion, by my definition, any invadee who gets killed in the process was murdered.

Well, we can agree/disagree on definitions, but I certainly accept that both Christians and Muslims were equally responsible for killing similarly large numbers of people.

 

[LuisDantas]

As I told u before u don't live in middle east
U know nothing about US activities in our area

Nothing except very indirect accounts, certainly.

Isis has weapons made by US in 2016
Who has given them to isis?????

I don't know. There are quite a lot of weapons being sold and changing hands around at any given time. Not too few are made in the US.

There are people dealing with ISIS in other capacities as well - I don't think they are self-reliant in food or fuel, for instance. Why is it any surprise that they have weapons as well?

Who has sent more and more foods for terrorists in Iraq and Syria by their soldiers?????
Who destroyed some bridge in Syria to protect terrorists?????
Who gathered terrorists from 100 countries?????
All by US

I guess I just don't know what you are talking about.

 

[LuisDantas]

@The_Fisher_King , @sovietchild : why exactly is it so unthinkable that there could be a world without Islaam?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

@The_Fisher_King , @sovietchild : why exactly is it so unthinkable that there could be a world without Islaam?

Not unthinkable.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

If you don't want to read Quran then don't do It, It's only a reminder. If you don't want to pray 5 times a day then don't do It, It's only a recommendation. If you don't want to read Islamic books then you don't have to do It, It's only a motivation. A motivation for you to remember The Creator.

What is wrong with Islam? Now days there is a lot of criticism about Islamic religion. Terrorist this and terrorist that. There is 0.007% chance that I am a terrorist. Life is a gamble.

I met a soldier at the gym. This is what he tolled me: "When I was in Iraq I looked at the thermometer and It was 150 degrees F, no wonder why those people are so aggressive."

Hot temperatures increase aggression by directly increasing feelings of hostility and indirectly increasing aggressive thoughts.

If you add hot weather with people coming to your nation for oil. What will the outcome be?

I spent some time in the ME, it doesn't make me an expert, but my observation was that there are very prosperous, peaceful nations that are very islamic, and those that are failed states. So to in Christendom if we consider the west v. USSR, eastern block.

Iraq, Syria, Oman, Yemen embraced socialism. Qatar, UAE, Bahrain, are hardly ideal societies, but have some economic savvy- it's not islam, it's socialism that has turned perfectly decent capable human beings into dysfunctional societies

 

[idav]

And there is no place for politics in that?

I think the way/path is pretty individualized and don't think it's necessary to institutionalize religion.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, but doesn't your 2nd paragraph disagree with your 1st paragraph?

No, to at all. We know as Baha'is, living in a Muslim country, who are our real oppressors and persecutors and it is not Muslims, Muhammad, the Quran or Islam but some corrupt clergy and fanatics who disobey the Quran as it teaches no compulsion in religion.

Here is some of what the daughter of former president Rafsanjani said in reply to criticism from the clergy that she mixed with Baha'is.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36320816


"But it was only when pictures emerged on social media of Ms Hashemi, a woman from a family at the heart of the ruling establishment, sitting at home with Ms Kamalabadi and other Bahais, that the controversy erupted.

Ms Hashemi herself has been unrepentant. She said her time in prison with Ms Kamalabadi had opened her eyes to the Bahais, who she believed should be accorded full civil and human rights.

"Of course, we form bonds with fellow human beings during the course of our lives, even if they do not belong to our religion," she said, arguing the clerics' treatment of Bahais was contrary to the teachings of Islam.

"If they [conservatives] were concerned with religion, they wouldn't commit so much injustice in [the] name of religion."

There you have it. There is selfish aim and ambition at the heart of oppression and terrorism not true religious sentiment which teaches tolerance and justice.

 

[icehorse]

When Christians or Muslims invade another country to spread their religion, by my definition, any invadee who gets killed in the process was murdered.

No, to at all. We know as Baha'is, living in a Muslim country, who are our real oppressors and persecutors and it is not Muslims, Muhammad, the Quran or Islam but some corrupt clergy and fanatics who disobey the Quran as it teaches no compulsion in religion.

For a "perfect" religion, history shows us that since day one, millions of Muslims seem to get it wrong. That doesn't shout "perfection" to me.