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What is wrong with Islam?

kaoticprofit

Active Member
And your basis for saying that this is what Islaam teaches?
Do you really want me to quote the verses? There are dozens of verses in the Koran that promote some really bad stuff. The Hadith also has some really bad stuff in it and that's where the 72 virgins doctrine comes from. I'd rather not start posting verses from the Koran. You can find out what they are with a few clicks.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
For a "perfect" religion, history shows us that since day one, millions of Muslims seem to get it wrong. That doesn't shout "perfection" to me.

We again come back to disobedience. The Quran forbids premeditated murder as does the Bible and all Holy Books but that didn't stop the world wars. Man can choose his path and does.

Now you speak about the early wars after Muhammad died. The Quran only permits self defence if attacked and nothing else.

Sura 2:190

And fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: but commit not the injustice of attacking them first: God loveth not such injustice:

J M Rodwell

When Muhammad died He left no successor so the Caliphs took over. The first four caliphs are known as the rightly guided caliphs as they largely obeyed the Quran.

But after them came the Abbasids and Umayyads who saw Islam as a tool they could use to conquer and attain great wealth and power so they disobeyed the Quran and found any pretext for offensive warfare to conquer for wealth and power.

The year 666 is the year militant Islam began. If you would note it is the number of the beast in the Bible too. Militant Islam then was Sunni Islam.

The point is, man is given a direction by God which is perfect, but then it is up to him to choose to walk that path.

Everyone agrees that militant Islam is an evil but it has its roots not in the Quran but in evil men of ambition disobeying Sura 2:190.

Muslims in general know that the Quran teaches peace which is why 1.7 billion do not attack us.

The fanatics are not faithful to the Quran and act on no ones behalf but their own egos.
 

kaoticprofit

Active Member
If there was no Islam there would be no problem.
I can't wait for the day. In nearly every place on earth where there are problems with religious or civil wars and violence it's a group associated with Islam. Many of Islams jihadist sects specialize in one form or another of foreign fighters, human trafficking, and sex slaves. Look at the hundreds of school girls that were abducted and used as sex slaves and suicide bombers.

Habakkuk says Jihadist are.....
...terrible and dreadful:
Enough said!
...their judgment and their dignity shall proceed of themselves.
(you know what they're like and what's coming.)

...Their horses also are swifter than the leopards, and are more fierce than the evening wolves:
(Today's ISIS?)
...and their horsemen shall spread themselves,
(foreign fighters)
...and their horsemen shall come from far;
(radicals that coming from distant countries to become jihadist like those who joined ISIS).
...they shall fly as the eagle that hasteth to eat.
(Like jet liners flying into skyscrapers. They're on a mission from Allah for large 911 style attacks).

...They shall come all for violence:
(Islamic terrorism)
...their faces shall sup up as the east wind,
(5 times a day or more.)
...and they shall gather the captivity as the sand.
(They want the whole piece of pie.)
... And they shall scoff at the kings,
(They're not like an army of brigades coming at you, they hide in the general population).
...and the princes(Imams and clerics) shall be a scorn unto them:
(Scorns to governments just to deal with it)
... they shall deride every strong hold; for they shall heap dust, and take it.
(Jihadist are difficult to catch and find...and suicide bombers).
Then shall his mind change, and he shall pass over, and offend, imputing this his power unto his god.

You don't really want to know what that verse may mean. But his god is Allah! And it is demonic!
 
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Gmcbroom

Member
There are a couple of reasons to reject Islam. The first strictly going on the koran it's self; shows that the Koran doesn't have any positive verses on how to deal with those who are the people of the book and those who are unbelievers. There are Sarah's but their all negative like make them feel subdued. That is not a glowing endorsement of co existence.
 

Gmcbroom

Member
In reality, since many people Muslim and politicians alike say Islam is a religion of peace it has become almost a bigoted action if you question it. For you will be labeled an Islamaphobe. We shouldn't be afraid of being labeled.

Their are many Muslims who have no idea what the Koran actually says. So they follow their imam. When the imam is westernized this isn't a problem as all they can do is be silent or label you.

The dangerous imam or Muslim is the one that actually reads the Koran and follows it to the letter. These are the radical ones. For salvation they will kill the infidel wherever he finds them. Syrah 9 has Muhammad's marching orders. If I'm wrong prove it. Read the verse then we'll talk.
 

Notanumber

A Free Man
When did they first start calling it the religion of peace?

How can they call it a religion anyway?

When did they first start calling us Islamophobes?

Do we know how many of these westernized imams are actually sleepers, just waiting for the call to arms?

Where else could we discuss these things without risking our lives?
 

azim24

Member
There are a couple of reasons to reject Islam. The first strictly going on the koran it's self; shows that the Koran doesn't have any positive verses on how to deal with those who are the people of the book and those who are unbelievers. There are Sarah's but their all negative like make them feel subdued. That is not a glowing endorsement of co existence.
Then We sent following their footsteps Our messengers and followed [them] with Jesus, the son of Mary, and gave him the Gospel. And We placed in the hearts of those who followed him compassion and mercy and monasticism, which they innovated; We did not prescribe it for them except [that they did so] seeking the approval of Allah . But they did not observe it with due observance. So We gave the ones who believed among them their reward, but many of them are defiantly disobedient. 57:27
And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."29:46
Say, "O People of the Scripture, do you resent us except [for the fact] that we have believed in Allah and what was revealed to us and what was revealed before and because most of you are defiantly disobedient?"5:59
Say, "Shall I inform you of [what is] worse than that as penalty from Allah ? [It is that of] those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He became angry and made of them apes and pigs and slaves of Taghut. Those are worse in position and further astray from the sound way."5:60
And if only the People of the Scripture had believed and feared Allah , We would have removed from them their misdeeds and admitted them to Gardens of Pleasure.5:65
And among the People of the Scripture is he who, if you entrust him with a great amount [of wealth], he will return it to you. And among them is he who, if you entrust him with a [single] silver coin, he will not return it to you unless you are constantly standing over him [demanding it]. That is because they say, "There is no blame upon us concerning the unlearned." And they speak untruth about Allah while they know [it].3:75
They are not [all] the same; among the People of the Scripture is a community standing [in obedience], reciting the verses of Allah during periods of the night and prostrating [in prayer].3:113
They believe in Allah and the Last Day, and they enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and hasten to good deeds. And those are among the righteous.3:114
And whatever good they do - never will it be removed from them. And Allah is Knowing of the righteous. 3:115 Quran






 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Christians tend not to deny this, Muslims tend to deny this.
I dunno. There seems to be at least one Christian who seems to think Christianity can do no wrong and Islam can do no right.

@The_Fisher_King , @sovietchild : why exactly is it so unthinkable that there could be a world without Islaam?
I took it as laughing that without Islam there wouldn't be a problem, as though the other religions can't cause problems.

Do you really want me to quote the verses? There are dozens of verses in the Koran that promote some really bad stuff. The Hadith also has some really bad stuff in it and that's where the 72 virgins doctrine comes from. I'd rather not start posting verses from the Koran. You can find out what they are with a few clicks.
You can find out just how evil the bible can be with just a few clicks. If you're interested.

Sura 2:190

And fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: but commit not the injustice of attacking them first: God loveth not such injustice
No, most just seem to bait countries like the US. I'm less ashamed of Muslim attacks than I am of our inability to stop taking the bait.

In nearly every place on earth where there are problems with religious or civil wars and violence it's a group associated with Islam.
Imagine, for a moment, WHY they are ticked off. Colonialism (not just the US, but other countries as well) can be placed squarely on the short list of why this stuff happens. When another country tries to run another country, bad things happen. Turns out people don't like long distance governing, especially when the government is way different in goals and ideals. And let's be real: if there were no oil, we wouldn't be so desperate to hang out with any of them. China and Russia are frankly much bigger ACTUAL threats, but we can't actually take them in a fight, so we stay their partners.

In reality, since many people Muslim and politicians alike say Islam is a religion of peace it has become almost a bigoted action if you question it. For you will be labeled an Islamaphobe. We shouldn't be afraid of being labeled.
Like when people criticize the evils of Christianity?
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Imagine, for a moment, WHY they are ticked off.

Kelly,

You ought to study Islamic history more deeply. Muslims have undertaken violent conquests and violent in-fighting from day one. To place the blame on relatively recent western interventions (bad as they've been), is to mischaracterize the situation. Western interventions have clearly been a huge negative influence, but they're only one factor of many.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Then We sent following their footsteps Our messengers and followed [them] with Jesus, the son of Mary, and gave him the Gospel.

Hi Azim,

You should understand that non-Muslims don't find Islamic scripture to be convincing. Anyone who comes to read the scripture without a preconceived notion will find it to be largely violent, plagiarized, repetitive, intolerant, self-serving, and without much merit. In short, quoting from the Quran or the Hadith is largely a waste of time when conversing with non-believers. We don't believe it, and it doesn't prove itself.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Kelly,

You ought to study Islamic history more deeply. Muslims have undertaken violent conquests and violent in-fighting from day one. To place the blame on relatively recent western interventions (bad as they've been), is to mischaracterize the situation. Western interventions have clearly been a huge negative influence, but they're only one factor of many.
I must agree at least tentatively. Muslims, like all people, will of course prefer to live in peace when given reasonable opportunity and incentive.

While the Qur'an and Islam in general certainly reflect that, we should just as certainly acknowledge that both the texts and the history of Islaam keep meeting, offering and even promising situations of aggressive intent and action.

There is a lot of effort at presenting those as necessary, justified or even simply god-approved, and of course considerable contemplation of the worth of peace and cooperation. There is not a whole lot about how to defuse and avoid the conflict itself, though, far as I can see.

It does not help that so much of Islaam is deeply dualistic and eager to categorize people, situations and actions in rather unsubtle divisions with sharply contrasting rights and expectations. There is not a lot of encouragement to casual exposure to diverging perspectives, and not a lot of opportunity to generally learning better.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
While the Qur'an and Islam in general certainly reflect that, we should just as certainly acknowledge that both the texts and the history of Islaam keep meeting, offering and even promising situations of aggressive intent and action.

It's that acknowledgement that's so desperately needed, and so seldom seen.
 

azim24

Member
Hi Azim,

You should understand that non-Muslims don't find Islamic scripture to be convincing. Anyone who comes to read the scripture without a preconceived notion will find it to be largely violent, plagiarized, repetitive, intolerant, self-serving, and without much merit. In short, quoting from the Quran or the Hadith is largely a waste of time when conversing with non-believers. We don't believe it, and it doesn't prove itself.
Hi icehorse,
Thank you for your concern.Not all non-Muslims find Islamic scripture nonconvincing.If that is the truth then there won't be any converts to Islam.And also i don't do that just for making people to convert Islam.I do that for the sake of Allah(swt) and also there are hadiths and verses about that.

Verily, the first of people to have their case judged on the Day of Resurrection will be a man who was martyred. He will be brought and Allah’s blessings will be made known and he will recognize them. Allah will say: What have you done concerning these blessings? The man will say: I fought in your cause until I was martyred. Allah will say: You have lied because you fought so that it would be said how courageous you are, and it was said. Then Allah will order him to be dragged upon his face into the Hellfire. Another man learned religious knowledge, taught others, and recited the Quran. He will be brought and Allah’s blessings will be made known and he will recognize them. Allah will say: What have you done concerning these blessings? The man will say: I learned religious knowledge, taught others, and I recited the Quran for Your sake. Allah will say: You have lied because you learned religious knowledge so that it would be said you are a scholar and you recited the Quran so that it would be said you are a reciter, and it was said. Then Allah will order him to be dragged upon his face into the Hellfire. Another man was given an abundance from Allah and was given every kind of wealth. He will be brought and Allah’s blessings will be made known and he will recognize them. Allah will say: What have you done concerning these blessings? The man will say: I spent money in every cause upon which You wished it to be spent. Allah will say: You have lied because you spent money so that it would be said how generous you are, and it was said. Then Allah will order him to be dragged upon his face into the Hellfire.

Source: Sahih Muslim 1905, Grade: Sahih

The Prophet (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said, “Convey from me even an Ayah of the Quran; relate traditions from Banu Israel, and there is no restriction on that; but he who deliberately forges a lie against me let him have his abode in Hell.” [Sahih Bukhari]
(O Messenger (Muhammad)! Proclaim (the Message) which has been sent down to you from your Lord. And if you do not, then you have not conveyed His Message. Allah will protect you from mankind. Verily, Allah guides not the people who disbelieve.)

[Surat Al Maida, 5:67]
 

Reggie Miller

Well-Known Member
I'll tell you what's wrong with Islam. Islam teaches that you can be good enough to get into heaven on your own. Nevermind that it's ridiculous that your sinful spirit could be dwelling in the Holy God's kingdom.

With Islam there is nothing done about the sin problem. It is still there. Big problem.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
There are 1.7 billion beautiful Muslim innocent everyday Muslims in the world who have done no wrong, committed no crime towards us and live their lives just like we do and all they want is to live in peace with us. They are mostly good and upright people because that is what Muhammad and the Quran teaches them.
The problem is is that approximately 20% of the global Muslim population is not peaceful, and they can and do, legitimately, turn to the Quran and Bible for justification of their wicked ways. And there is a another group, that often goes unmentioned, those who while not violent themselves, are supportive of/refuse to condemn the actions of extremists. And then there is yet another unmentioned group, one that does not support or condone such violence, but yet still wants Islamic dogma as official state law. One quick look at America should be evidence enough why such a thing is not a good thing, as it is running amuck from Christians attempting to force Christian dogma as state law, and it has a very nasty history of meaning lost/denied rights.
 

sovietchild

Well-Known Member
The problem is is that approximately 20% of the global Muslim population is not peaceful, and they can and do, legitimately, turn to the Quran and Bible for justification of their wicked ways. And there is a another group, that often goes unmentioned, those who while not violent themselves, are supportive of/refuse to condemn the actions of extremists. And then there is yet another unmentioned group, one that does not support or condone such violence, but yet still wants Islamic dogma as official state law. One quick look at America should be evidence enough why such a thing is not a good thing, as it is running amuck from Christians attempting to force Christian dogma as state law, and it has a very nasty history of meaning lost/denied rights.

20% is 320 million Muslims.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
20% is 320 million Muslims.
Yes. That is a very small minority. A drop in the bucket, overall. But, that does equal 320 million people who believe the two of us should both die, and probably every other member who uses this site. Many of those are willing to, and will, kill themselves, becoming glorified martyrs, and their families praised, in life and their alleged afterlife. Clearly, there is even a distinct difference between a culturally Western Muslim and a culturally Middle Eastern Muslim. I've even met many of them, and while they're generally and mostly very polite and pleasant people, I see nothing redeeming in requiring a woman to cover up so much that you can barely even see her hands. You don't have to bare a ton of skin, and I was even admiring how plain but cute this Mennonite girl's dress was the other day. She was very modest, showing only parts of her arm, her neck, face, and scarf over her hair that matched skirt. And then I think of the girl this semester, and I can't even tell you what color her hair or eyes are. She could have a smile that brightens days, but nobody knows. It's no reason to be mean or rude to her, but at the same time I see no reason I have to personally respect a culture that is so repressive of women that they are so heavily blamed for the sexuality of men that they have to cover up to such an extent and are at risk of being killed if they report someone raped them. Executing homosexuals, in the name of the Koran, is not something that should be excused from the harsh criticism it deserves. The West pulls out and quits bombing and interfering attacks in the West will probably become a rarity, but they'll still be blowing themselves up over there. We all pretty much universally shun and ridicule cannibal tribes, I think it's time we add such religious fanaticism to the list.
Like it or not, dangerous denominations of Islam to hold power. Women in Saudi Arabia cannot even drive a car. Taliban morality enforcers beat shop owners if a woman is in his shop and not fully covered, including gloves. There are many refugees even who speak out bad things are, but unfortunately it gets drown out in the name of "tolerance" and "cultural diversity." We have very clear evidence of what happens when you let Christianity run the state, and Islam run the state, and the results are not good.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
The problem is is that approximately 20% of the global Muslim population is not peaceful, and they can and do, legitimately, turn to the Quran and Bible for justification of their wicked ways. And there is a another group, that often goes unmentioned, those who while not violent themselves, are supportive of/refuse to condemn the actions of extremists. And then there is yet another unmentioned group, one that does not support or condone such violence, but yet still wants Islamic dogma as official state law. One quick look at America should be evidence enough why such a thing is not a good thing, as it is running amuck from Christians attempting to force Christian dogma as state law, and it has a very nasty history of meaning lost/denied rights.

How can we speak about others like that? Aren't they our fellow human beings? Are we so perfect that we can sit in judgement of the whole human race?

Shouldn't we seek out our own faults and shortcomings and look at the good in others?

Apart from some criminally minded minority which exists in all sections of humanity, people are peaceful and cooperative. People including Muslims have so much goodness and are so hospitable and kind and magnanimous.

I'm a Baha'i not a Muslim, but all my life people from Islamic background have been kinder to me than my own countrymen. They have such wonderful hospitality and courtesy unmatched by the west. Humanity is not perfect. If we look at people from a standpoint of their faults then being friends with them is a formidable task.

I never allow the media to influence my opinion of a race or religion. Muslims are a very kind and friendly people.

I believe in the Quran and the Bible so I try to do good because these books teach only to do good not evil.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Shouldn't we seek out our own faults and shortcomings and look at the good in others?
I do speak of our faults. We over consume. We have hunger and poverty when we should have none. We use long-term isolated confinement as a punishment, and we serve toxins as foods. I even just so happen to agree with Bin Laden that we are way to vain when it comes to our lawn care. But we don't make women subservient to men. We don't stone or even kill adulterers. We don't force people to live to the standards of an ancient book, frequently under the penalty of death. Bud we do have Christians who are trying to force Biblical principle at state laws, and that frequently allowing the church to define a science education, sex education, and who is and who is not entitled to basic rights. It's an Abrahmic "light" version of what Iran has.
 
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