What is wrong with Islam?

[FearGod]

With all due respect... I don't care whether you are convinced. You have not earned that space.

I was telling my opinion, I don't see it as convincing to follow any religion
while not believing in the afterlife and God, You're convinced with it
and some others may think as you do, but for me it isn't convincing,
it isn't personal, just to make it clear.

 

[sovietchild]

I wish most Muslims would accept that most of the 'propaganda' against Islam comes from the way Muslims actually behave, the hadith and websites like this. At this point I feel fairly comfortable saying that most Muslims are deluded, in the full psychiatric meaning of the term.

What about those people who bow down to a statue?

 

[LuisDantas]

I was telling my opinion, I don't see it as convincing to follow any religion
while not believing in the afterlife and God,

Well, you are not alone.

Myself, I find afterlife and god beliefs to be so much dead weight, distractions from the true religious doctrine.

You're convinced with it
and some others may think as you do, but for me it isn't convincing,
it isn't personal, just to make it clear.

All right.

 

[Rival]

What about people those who bow down to a statue?

I wouldn't say they are deluded but they are idolaters.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And that is the reason for wars since the born of man, it was the quran to be blamed.

My point was that a book of military treatise, in regards to warfare, calls for far, far less blood than the Quran. It does call for a very strict military discipline. For a book about warfare, it's amazingly anti-fighting, says to not siege or raze cities, and makes no mention of continually fighting until the entire world is subjugated to Chinese rule. It doesn't urge it's followers to be vicious and cruel on the battlefield, and it makes no requirement of death for adulterers, blasphemers, apostates, infidels, witches, homosexuals, or the many other sorts the Quran and Bible prescribe mandatory death.
Thus, I do not get this "religion of peace" when a book about warfare is far more peaceful than what the Quran and Bible teach.

 

[FearGod]

My point was that a book of military treatise, in regards to warfare, calls for far, far less blood than the Quran. It does call for a very strict military discipline. For a book about warfare, it's amazingly anti-fighting, says to not siege or raze cities, and makes no mention of continually fighting until the entire world is subjugated to Chinese rule. It doesn't urge it's followers to be vicious and cruel on the battlefield, and it makes no requirement of death for adulterers, blasphemers, apostates, infidels, witches, homosexuals, or the many other sorts the Quran and Bible prescribe mandatory death.
Thus, I do not get this "religion of peace" when a book about warfare is far more peaceful than what the Quran and Bible teach.

Which verses in the quran that you found offensive?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I wish most Muslims would accept that most of the 'propaganda' against Islam comes from the way Muslims actually behave, the hadith and websites like this. At this point I feel fairly comfortable saying that most Muslims are deluded, in the full psychiatric meaning of the term.

If you're going to extend this to Islam, the only logical thing to do is extend it towards all religions. The entire premises of faith is to believe something without concrete evidence. Many religious people "have visions," the "chant/speak in tongues," they do many things that, outside of the context of religion, can be described as psychotic*, with either the individual, or even group psychosis, which is also seen.
(*not deluded, as it's a symptom, and not inherently indicative of mental illness outside of context - such as someone believing they are a "big fish" when in reality they have only ever been swimming in a "small pond." It's a common and easy delusion to have, but it does not suggest mental illness)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Which verses in the quran that you found offensive?

Surah An-Nisa 4:89 is a good one to point out, as not only does it say to kill those who don't believe and feel we should be equals, but it also says to not be friends with them. 91 is also very problematic, as it gives justification for what groups like ISIS do, even abroad in the West. 101 is also pretty appalling, because it declares the non-believers are "ever unto you open enemy." We also see slavery being affirmed, and not condemned but something rather that is just accepted as a regular part of life.
And, of course, there are verses that call for the death of apostates, those that require women to cover up and dress and behave certain ways, and, by default, every verse I find offensive in the Tanakh and New Testament. Which also heavily revolves around mandating death, genocide, slavery, repression of women, and other things that just are not tolerated by the bulk of Western and Eastern society, simply because we know better and have far greater and deeper insights into morality and ethics than what has had thousands of years ago.

 

[Notanumber]

That what you believe in but that doesn't mean it tells the truth.

Read this then try to defend it.

Johann Hari: How multiculturalism is betraying women

 

[FearGod]

Surah An-Nisa 4:89 is a good one to point out, as not only does it say to kill those who don't believe and feel we should be equals, but it also says to not be friends with them. 91 is also very problematic, as it gives justification for what groups like ISIS do, even abroad in the West. 101 is also pretty appalling, because it declares the non-believers are "ever unto you open enemy." We also see slavery being affirmed, and not condemned but something rather that is just accepted as a regular part of life.
And, of course, there are verses that call for the death of apostates, those that require women to cover up and dress and behave certain ways, and, by default, every verse I find offensive in the Tanakh and New Testament. Which also heavily revolves around mandating death, genocide, slavery, repression of women, and other things that just are not tolerated by the bulk of Western and Eastern society, simply because we know better and have far greater and deeper insights into morality and ethics than what has had thousands of years ago.

That is one example of the injustice and the unfair judgement الظالمون as i guess the
verses are clear to fight those who intended to fight you but if they were peaceful then
you have no right to fight them, it isn't about the belief but about fighting to defend yourself,
I think the verses are clear except if one intended to be unfair.

Yusuf Estes Corrects QURAN Mis-Quotes

 

[Shadow Wolf]

i guess the
verses are clear to fight those who intended to fight you

No, that is not clear or implied. There is nothing in there about being fair or being fare, but, rather, don't be friends with the unbeliever and kill them where ever you find them. "Where you find" does not mean "on the battlefield." And, as previously mentioned, groups such as ISIS use such verses to justify their slaying of Muslims and infidels alike, other Muslims for "corrupting the true faith," and the infidels, especially Western infidels, because so many Western states are at war against them, but the people of places like France, Germany, and America are not, but with places like Saudi Arabia things like religion, politics, and separating them and from the general public sphere are not seen or acknowledged. I've never threatened a Muslim, but because the American government has continually bombed so many Muslim countries extremists can, and do, turn to the Quran and find such passages to justify why I should be killed over their dead.

 

[FearGod]

Read this then try to defend it.

Johann Hari: How multiculturalism is betraying women

I have explained it in several threads before, the verse doesn't say
strike women, as the word strike means in Arabic to cut relationships
as kind of objection and that was explained further in the next first that
if striking doesn't work then you should seek for separation (divorce),
by logic, the verse says to leave the bed, IOW don't have sex with her but
still the relationship doesn't end but if she doesn't care then cut relationship
and if she still doesn't care then the best choice is to divorce.

 

[Notanumber]

Sounds to me Islamophobia.

Is Pat suffering from Islamophobia?

 

[Notanumber]

I have explained it in several threads before, the verse doesn't say
strike women, as the word strike means in Arabic to cut relationships
as kind of objection and that was explained further in the next first that
if striking doesn't work then you should seek for separation (divorce),
by logic, the verse says to leave the bed, IOW don't have sex with her but
still the relationship doesn't end but if she doesn't care then cut relationship
and if she still doesn't care then the best choice is to divorce.

This guy sounds like an expert on the subject.

 

[gnostic]

Do you know why he attacked merchant caravans in the first place?

Revenge and loots.

Revenge, because of the merchants were Meccans. There was no war between Meccans and Muslims.

But if they were at war, Muhammad raided civilians, not the military. One of the last raids resulted in the death in death of a guard, and though he didn't kill this guard himself, he was the leader of a bunch armed looters.

But it wasn't war. So Muhammad and his Muslim raiders were nothing more than robbers, brigands or pirates.

And Mecca wasn't at war with Muslims until began these raids, that eventually led to battle of Badr (624). So essentially this wasn't a defensive war or self defence, but aggressive and provocative action. Muhammad is not a peacemaker, but a warmonger.

Loots or plunders were to buy more weapons.

I understand that Muslims who followed Muhammad in exile, lost their properties and wealth. But robbing caravans are wrong, because it is stealing.

Why does Islam say it is a crime or sin, to steal, but it is okay for Muslims to do so, when Muhammad is in charge of robbing merchants? That's not only double-standard, where the rule or law don't seem to apply to him, it also demonstrate to me that Muhammad is a hypocrite.

And in each of these raids, the rule of taking only a fifth of spoil were never enforced, which again, make your prophet a hypocrite.

Stealing is wrong, even if it is done in revenge. Revenge is not justice, it is a selfish act.

Muhammad found a new home in Medina. He could have live out his life in Medina, without robbing merchants, without war. The Meccans would have left him alone. But Muhammad couldn't leave it alone, so Muhammad had initiated this war with those raids.

Sorry, but I couldn't follow a religion where the founder of Islam, go out with his men, robbing people.

 

[sovietchild]

 

[Kirran]

If you believe the lies then it's your choice.

You seem intent on thinking people critical of Islamic ideals, or ideals of subsets of Islam, are choosing to believe lies.

Speaking for myself only, I would much prefer to believe Islam was peaceful and wonderful. I would much prefer to see Muhammad as an unquestionably honourable person. I want to not find problems with Islam and its practice, I don't like finding these problems. But I find them anyway.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

If you don't want to read Quran then don't do It, It's only a reminder. If you don't want to pray 5 times a day then don't do It, It's only a recommendation. If you don't want to read Islamic books then you don't have to do It, It's only a motivation. A motivation for you to remember The Creator.

What is wrong with Islam? Now days there is a lot of criticism about Islamic religion. Terrorist this and terrorist that. There is 0.007% chance that I am a terrorist. Life is a gamble.

I met a soldier at the gym. This is what he tolled me: "When I was in Iraq I looked at the thermometer and It was 150 degrees F, no wonder why those people are so aggressive."

Hot temperatures increase aggression by directly increasing feelings of hostility and indirectly increasing aggressive thoughts.

If you add hot weather with people coming to your nation for oil. What will the outcome be?

I lived in an Islamic society for half a year, (bo-kaap, Cape Town) and found the people
to be very peaceful and friendly and tolerant.

But in other parts of the world, the problem seems to be over-population
which was the same problem the west and east had during the 1930's and 40's especially.

Might I suggest smaller families, perhaps?
Possibly doing away with polygamy?

 

[Notanumber]

I do not have the time or the inclination to watch a video of that length.

I presume it is propaganda, pointing out that not all Muslims are terrorists, fundamentalists or extremists, etc.

Unfortunately, that does not alter the fact that far too many are.

 

[sovietchild]

I lived in an Islamic society for half a year, (bo-kaap, Cape Town) and found the people
to be very peaceful and friendly and tolerant.

But in other parts of the world, the problem seems to be over-population
which was the same problem the west and east had during the 1930's and 40's especially.

Might I suggest smaller families, perhaps?
Possibly doing away with polygamy?

Yes I agree. Population - competition - crime.