What is wrong with Islam?

[FearGod]

This guy sounds like an expert on the subject.

No I don't agree with him, we have to follow the prophet's way of life and he never
beat any woman even a slight one, before his death he requested from the listeners
to be kind to their women and that was in the final sermon in which he asked the
listeners to pass his speech to the next generation.

 

[Kirran]

No I don't agree with him, we have to follow the prophet's way of life and he never
beat any woman even a slight one, before his death he requested from the listeners
to be kind to their women and that was in the final sermon in which he asked the
listeners to pass his speech to the next generation.

It still seems the entire thing was addressed to men, far more than women. He gave instructions for how men were to live, some of which could also apply to women.

 

[Kirran]

What about those people who bow down to a statue?

What about those people who bow down to God as manifest in a statue?

 

[FearGod]

I do not have the time or the inclination to watch a video of that length.

I presume it is propaganda, pointing out that not all Muslims are terrorists, fundamentalists or extremists, etc.

Unfortunately, that does not alter the fact that far too many are.

If you care to search for the truth then I don't think watching a documentary movie
about the prophet is a waste of time giving that you're already wasting a lot of time
debating against Islam.

 

[sovietchild]

I do not have the time or the inclination to watch a video of that length.

I presume it is propaganda, pointing out that not all Muslims are terrorists, fundamentalists or extremists, etc.

Unfortunately, that does not alter the fact that far too many are.

I don't blame you one iota for feeling as you do. If I were you I would undoubtedly feel just as you do.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I presume it is propaganda, pointing out that not all Muslims are terrorists, fundamentalists or extremists, etc.

Unfortunately, that does not alter the fact that far too many are.

It's not that there are too many Muslim terrorists. Most Muslims, and even most Christians, are not violent people, nor are they foaming-at-the-mouth Fundamentalists, and certainly today Christian terrorism is a thing, albeit absolutely nothing like it was centuries ago. Rather, the issue isn't of varying interpretations or the behaviors of Muslims, or even an issue solely with Islam, but that you can take examine the two books of the two most wide-spread and dominate religions around the world, with one of those religions using both books, and find that while some will focus on the love, peace, and tolerance to be found, the real issue is that many turn to those books to find justification for their wickedness, and there is no short-supply of passages, in either book, for them to declare their own ways of evil the will of God himself.
It's also an issue of how we don't like to question faith, and even view it as a virtue. Living in rural-Conservative America, this means my rights hang by a thread and are in peril with Mike Pence having the power he is set to wield (he was bad enough as governor). But if you don't have faith in this god, even if you don't have a problem with homosexuals and transgenders, just as long as you have faith you're aren't faulted; to not have faith is, very literally in the eyes of many, to be viewed as an immoral person who is fundamentally incapable of doing good. And, of course, anytime you try to upset the norms of the status quo, in a way that is truly meaningful and can advances causes and struggles, regardless of what is going on, most people will tell you not to and that it's just the way things are. But, when we do question faith, so very often and typically people are very eager to eviscerate Islam, but they somehow give Christianity a free pass, even though Muslims are instructed to read the Bible, and the Bible is as bloody tyrannical as the Quran. We so desperately want to blame it all on Islam that we are even reluctant to acknowledge there is a fundamental difference between Muslims who were born/raised and culturally Western compared to those who were born/raised and culturally Middle Eastern and rather just pretend anyone who reads the Quran and becomes Muslim is going to go blow up a public building, much like we were to believe listening to heavy metal would cause you to go crazy and commit suicide.
There is no reason to be afraid of Islam or Muslims. Rather, instead, we must be fearless in applying the lens of critical thought to all religions.

 

[Notanumber]

If you care to search for the truth then I don't think watching a documentary movie
about the prophet is a waste of time giving that you're already wasting a lot of time
debating against Islam.

We do not need animated videos when real life ones are more than plentiful.

 

[Notanumber]

It's not that there are too many Muslim terrorists. Most Muslims, and even most Christians, are not violent people, nor are they foaming-at-the-mouth Fundamentalists, and certainly today Christian terrorism is a thing, albeit absolutely nothing like it was centuries ago. Rather, the issue isn't of varying interpretations or the behaviors of Muslims, or even an issue solely with Islam, but that you can take examine the two books of the two most wide-spread and dominate religions around the world, with one of those religions using both books, and find that while some will focus on the love, peace, and tolerance to be found, the real issue is that many turn to those books to find justification for their wickedness, and there is no short-supply of passages, in either book, for them to declare their own ways of evil the will of God himself.
It's also an issue of how we don't like to question faith, and even view it as a virtue. Living in rural-Conservative America, this means my rights hang by a thread and are in peril with Mike Pence having the power he is set to wield (he was bad enough as governor). But if you don't have faith in this god, even if you don't have a problem with homosexuals and transgenders, just as long as you have faith you're aren't faulted; to not have faith is, very literally in the eyes of many, to be viewed as an immoral person who is fundamentally incapable of doing good. And, of course, anytime you try to upset the norms of the status quo, in a way that is truly meaningful and can advances causes and struggles, regardless of what is going on, most people will tell you not to and that it's just the way things are. But, when we do question faith, so very often and typically people are very eager to eviscerate Islam, but they somehow give Christianity a free pass, even though Muslims are instructed to read the Bible, and the Bible is as bloody tyrannical as the Quran. We so desperately want to blame it all on Islam that we are even reluctant to acknowledge there is a fundamental difference between Muslims who were born/raised and culturally Western compared to those who were born/raised and culturally Middle Eastern and rather just pretend anyone who reads the Quran and becomes Muslim is going to go blow up a public building, much like we were to believe listening to heavy metal would cause you to go crazy and commit suicide.
There is no reason to be afraid of Islam or Muslims. Rather, instead, we must be fearless in applying the lens of critical thought to all religions.

Get your priorities right!

 

[sovietchild]

Revenge and loots.

Revenge, because of the merchants were Meccans. There was no war between Meccans and Muslims.

But if they were at war, Muhammad raided civilians, not the military. One of the last raids resulted in the death in death of a guard, and though he didn't kill this guard himself, he was the leader of a bunch armed looters.

But it wasn't war. So Muhammad and his Muslim raiders were nothing more than robbers, brigands or pirates.

And Mecca wasn't at war with Muslims until began these raids, that eventually led to battle of Badr (624). So essentially this wasn't a defensive war or self defence, but aggressive and provocative action. Muhammad is not a peacemaker, but a warmonger.

Loots or plunders were to buy more weapons.

I understand that Muslims who followed Muhammad in exile, lost their properties and wealth. But robbing caravans are wrong, because it is stealing.

Why does Islam say it is a crime or sin, to steal, but it is okay for Muslims to do so, when Muhammad is in charge of robbing merchants? That's not only double-standard, where the rule or law don't seem to apply to him, it also demonstrate to me that Muhammad is a hypocrite.

And in each of these raids, the rule of taking only a fifth of spoil were never enforced, which again, make your prophet a hypocrite.

Stealing is wrong, even if it is done in revenge. Revenge is not justice, it is a selfish act.

Muhammad found a new home in Medina. He could have live out his life in Medina, without robbing merchants, without war. The Meccans would have left him alone. But Muhammad couldn't leave it alone, so Muhammad had initiated this war with those raids.

Sorry, but I couldn't follow a religion where the founder of Islam, go out with his men, robbing people.

You seem to know a bit of history of the Prophet. Tell me @gnostic what was he known for before he was exiled from Mecca?

 

[Aštra’el]

you can take examine the two books of the two most wide-spread and dominate religions around the world, with one of those religions using both books, and find that while some will focus on the love, peace, and tolerance to be found, the real issue is that many turn to those books to find justification for their wickedness, and there is no short-supply of passages, in either book, for them to declare their own ways of evil the will of God himself.

and the Bible is as bloody tyrannical as the Quran.

The Bible is one of the greatest and purest expressions of human Nature. It beautifully and powerfully portrays (often through myth, metaphor and allegory) the epic history and evolution of various cultures of man in their spiritual aspect, revealing the brightest and darkest sides of our own (individual and collective) human Nature on a level rarely, perhaps never, seen in any other collection of writings.

 

[azim24]

We do not need animated videos when real life ones are more than plentiful.

I think you are not islamophobic you have islamizophrenia
You are not just scared of Islam you make it obsession and you hallucinate.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

We do not need animated videos when real life ones are more than plentiful.

Watch this video get dismissed as propaganda and lies

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I think you are not islamophobic you have islamizophrenia
You are not just scared of Islam you make it obsession and you hallucinate.

So now you're trying to expand associating criticism of Islam with mental illness to include more kinds. How progressive of you.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The Bible is one of the greatest and purest expressions of human Nature. It beautifully and powerfully portrays (often through myth, metaphor and allegory) the epic history and evolution of various cultures of man in their spiritual aspect, revealing the brightest and darkest sides of our own (individual and collective) human Nature on a level rarely, perhaps never, seen in any other collection of writings.

Slavery, killing your own child, repressing others, those things are not natural. There is nothing beautiful, and nothing bright, about saying "kill those who say let's worship other gods." And there is pretty much one culture covered in the Bible, the Jews, and then the Jews according to those with a poor understanding of Judaism. It does not, at all, reflect cultures that lacked private property, that did not find menstruation disgusting and something that makes everything the woman practically touches as "unclean" as she is, or even the neighboring tribes of the Jews.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Get your priorities right!

My priorities are right. It is illogical to criticize Islam and the Quran but ignore Christianity and the Bible, and pretty much just about everything that can be applied to one can be said of the other.

 

[Aštra’el]

Slavery, killing your own child, repressing others, those things are not natural. There is nothing beautiful, and nothing bright, about saying "kill those who say let's worship other gods."

You cannot vividly enlighten a people to the various sides of human Nature by restricting your story to rainbows and glitter and butterflies.

Human Nature (individually and collectively) has many aspects. Human Nature collectively involves passion, love, anger, lust, pride, hatred, pain, suffering, violence, vengeance, jealousy, greed, corruption, maliciousness, happiness, virtue, respect, honor, kindness, sacrifice, chaos, crime, terror, conquest, murder, death... and so many other things. Our human Nature is so incredibly complicated.

We see all these things and more represented by stories and characters in the Bible... characters who are like allegorical personifications of the eternally active forces of our own collective human Nature. It shows us that despite how far we've come, we are in many ways exactly like our ancestors on the inside.

And yes, I feel a profound reverence towards human Nature. I can see beauty even in the most horrible sides of humanity.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You cannot vividly enlighten a people to the various sides of human Nature by restricting your story to rainbows and glitter and butterflies.

No, but there is nothing good to be found in "you can beat your slave as severely and harshly as you want as long as you don't kill them and they recover after a few days, because they are your property."

We see all these things and more represented by stories and characters in the Bible... characters who are like allegorical personifications of the eternally active forces of our own collective human Nature. It shows us that despite how far we've come, we are in many ways exactly like our ancestors on the inside.

All I see when I read it is a bunch of men who couldn't gain the respect of their fellow humans and govern with dignity, so they created a system of "my way or the highway," frightening people and scaring them into submission because it's not these iron-fisted dictators saying it, no, allegedly, according to them, it's "god" saying it, and "god" says do it "his" way or face the harsh and severe consequences in this life and for all of eternity.
And, no, I am not like those from ancient days when slavery was permitted, genocide was considered appropriate, women had to be repressed, and I am not superstitious in the slightest. If people want to "worship different gods," I really don't care. Unlike those ancient Jews, I don't see any reason to kill them.

 

[Aštra’el]

No, but there is nothing good to be found in "you can beat your slave as severely and harshly as you want as long as you don't kill them and they recover after a few days, because they are your property."

All I see when I read it is a bunch of men who couldn't gain the respect of their fellow humans and govern with dignity, so they created a system of "my way or the highway," frightening people and scaring them into submission because it's not these iron-fisted dictators saying it, no, allegedly, according to them, it's "god" saying it, and "god" says do it "his" way or face the harsh and severe consequences in this life and for all of eternity.
And, no, I am not like those from ancient days when slavery was permitted, genocide was considered appropriate, women had to be repressed, and I am not superstitious in the slightest. If people want to "worship different gods," I really don't care. Unlike those ancient Jews, I don't see any reason to kill them.

There is so much about the world that you are just never going to understand, because you just leap at the opportunity to be offended by everything.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There is so much about the world that you are just never going to understand, because you just leap at the opportunity to be offended by everything.

How nice of you to assume.

 

[LuisDantas]

My priorities are right. It is illogical to criticize Islam and the Quran but ignore Christianity and the Bible, and pretty much just about everything that can be applied to one can be said of the other.

At a certain abstract level that is almost correct.

It breaks down at more concrete levels, though.

Christianity shows a potential vulnerability to many of the self-inflicted maladies that Islaam embraces, and I suspect that the rise of Islaam 1400 years ago did in fact enable some that were only unrealized potentials until then.

Even a little bit of awareness and intellectual honesty shows that there are very significant differences in the shortcomings and dangers between Christianity and Islaam in the last century or so. One would have to go back at least a few centuries before a reasonable argument to the contrary could at least be attempted.