What is wrong with Islam?

[lewisnotmiller]

I heard Charlie Hebdo was about to go out of business. Because of those killings they sold millions of copies. I guess it was meant to be for them to stay in business.

This post worries me.

 

[LuisDantas]

I heard Charlie Hebdo was about to go out of business. Because of those killings they sold millions of copies. I guess it was meant to be for them to stay in business.

I honestly don't know what to make of this. Either way I try to parse it it comes out weird or worse.

 

[sovietchild]

This post worries me.

May The Hidden One forgive me If I said something wrong.

 

[kaoticprofit]

Don't misunderstand me: I will just as quickly criticize the Bible and Christianity just as fast as I will Islam and the Koran. Those two religions/books have brought up thousands of years of war, severe repression, unspeakable cruelty, and have made countless lives hell. And, do recall, Luke 19 gives the order to "bring hither those who want not that I should reign over them and slay them before me." "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." If a son says "let us worship other gods," his father is supposed to cast the first stone to kill his own child: if a city says "let us worship other gods," not even the cattle are safe. There's also a good deal of sex-slavery in the Bible, and just "normal" slavery. And don't forget the infanticide.

No. The Ottoman's made some advances, but the Ottoman Caliphate was way, WAY different than anything we are seeing from today's Islamic nations, and even though the Ottoman's did have their positives, we must not forget they were slave owners, they did spread out through violent and bloody conquests, and they weren't too big into the idea of gender equality.

Luke 19 is a parable about "a certain nobleman" and divine Judgments that occur at Christ second coming. It's not to be taken as a literal human event Christians are to uphold. Christ is using it to describe the end result of his final judgment.

The verses you quote from Exodus 22 come from Mosaic law and are meant only for the nation of Israel. The practice of sorceries was forbidden an well as beastiality, as opposed to Islam where sex with a child is permissible under certain circumstances, and where the killing of ALL infidels, especially Jews and Christians, is encouraged.

I'm not fond of "the Christian religion" myself. It's followers love to demonize their own. It has become a self-destructive religion. I don't even like calling myself a Christian. i prefer to call myself a believer in Christ.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Luke 19 is a parable about "a certain nobleman" and divine Judgments that occur at Christ second coming. It's not to be taken as a literal human event Christians are to uphold. Christ is using

Yes, and this "certain nobleman" bears a marked resemblance to Christ.
And you've apparently forgotten the Bible is loaded with incest and children having sex....even with their father. Was he punished or denounced? No. Rather, he is called "righteous," even though he offered his daughters up for gang rape. And, don't forget the commands of Moses for the soldiers of Israel to kill all men, all women old enough to have known a man, and to keep for themselves the girls who are young enough to have not.

 

[kaoticprofit]

I have heard similar claims before.

I can't help but feel that they are akin to throwing out the bathtub and the baby in order to preserve the dirty water.

Every religion has problems. There is no such thing as true religion because it's a human institution designed to find God. People who claim one religion or another subscribe to it's dogma. You don't have to be in a religion to find God.

 

[kaoticprofit]

Yes, and this "certain nobleman" bears a marked resemblance to Christ.
And you've apparently forgotten the Bible is loaded with incest and children having sex....even with their father. Was he punished or denounced? No. Rather, he is called "righteous," even though he offered his daughters up for gang rape. And, don't forget the commands of Moses for the soldiers of Israel to kill all men, all women old enough to have known a man, and to keep for themselves the girls who are young enough to have not.

I presume what you call incest was necessary for mankind to populate the earth like the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve. In those times the human race hadn't yet accumulated all the fruits of the fall, so it was OK to marry cousins and aunts etc. That was the old covenant and no longer permissible in the New covenant. There are also instances of rape, but remember, those people were human too. The difference is that ISLAM promotes these things whereas the bible records some instances of people being guilty of it but doesn't encourage it.

 

[LuisDantas]

Every religion has problems. There is no such thing as true religion because it's a human institution designed to find God. People who claim one religion or another subscribe to it's dogma. You don't have to be in a religion to find God.

More like I don't need a God to have a proper religion, IMO.

 

[kaoticprofit]

More like I don't need a God to have a proper religion, IMO.

Well, I would say it's more like you don't need a religion to have a God! Or even, you don't need a god to have a god.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

May The Hidden One forgive me If I said something wrong.

It sounded like you thought killing could be justifiable as a response to non-violent actions a person finds disagreeable.

Hopefully you can see why this is worriesome for me?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I presume what you call incest was necessary for mankind to populate the earth

It was never necessary though. And why should the Bible get a free pass on the things it contains that are abhorrent, offensive, and reprehensible?

That was the old covenant and no longer permissible in the New covenant.

The Bible explicitly states the old laws are still valid, and no one is supposed to retract or add to them. Matthew 5:17-19 Jesus says he has not come to abolish the laws or Prophets, not an iota of the law will change, and whoever relaxes even the slightest of laws will be called among the least in Heaven. In Luke 16:17 Jesus says it's easier for the Earth to pass than for the law to change. John 7:19 even asks about the law Moses laid down, and asks why people aren't following it.

The difference is that ISLAM promotes these things whereas the bible records some instances of people being guilty of it but doesn't encourage it.

On numerous occasions in the Bible it was the "divine commandment" of God himself to pillar, plunder, slaughter, and rape.
And, BTW, Muslims are instructed to read the Bible, and much of what ISIS is doing reads like they are heavily drawing from the OT.

 

[kaoticprofit]

It was never necessary though. And why should the Bible get a free pass on the things it contains that are abhorrent, offensive, and reprehensible?

The Bible explicitly states the old laws are still valid, and no one is supposed to retract or add to them. Matthew 5:17-19 Jesus says he has not come to abolish the laws or Prophets, not an iota of the law will change, and whoever relaxes even the slightest of laws will be called among the least in Heaven. In Luke 16:17 Jesus says it's easier for the Earth to pass than for the law to change. John 7:19 even asks about the law Moses laid down, and asks why people aren't following it.

On numerous occasions in the Bible it was the "divine commandment" of God himself to pillar, plunder, slaughter, and rape.
And, BTW, Muslims are instructed to read the Bible, and much of what ISIS is doing reads like they are heavily drawing from the OT.

Of course it was necessary, otherwise every offspring Adam and Eve had would have never procreated and the human race would have died off.

Jesus didn't come to abrogate the law, he came to fulfill it's moral and legal demands, its teachings, prophecy, and the penalty, on the cross. The Apostle Paul said, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes" Romans 10:4. He completed the law. What it could not do, Christ did to make it a perfect sacrifice to satisfy God.

"One jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled:"

 

[LuisDantas]

Well, I would say it's more like you don't need a religion to have a God! Or even, you don't need a god to have a god.

I don't need a god at all, nor do I want one.

 

[sovietchild]

By the Orthodox Church of Russia, you mean?

How does their teaching disagree with what Rival said?

Yes.

I'm not sure, but that's not how I/we was raised. I don't believe that Russian/Soviet Union people think that Jesus was god.

I was born a Muslim, and then my family converted me into Orthodox.

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm pretty such both Orthodox branches are trinitarian, so I don't know quite what to say.

 

[kaoticprofit]

I don't need a god at all, nor do I want one.

And I respect that. I'm good friends with a man who's an atheist and he usually makes more sense than most so called Christians I know. I don't need a religion!

 

[sovietchild]

I'm pretty such both Orthodox branches are trinitarian, so I don't know quite what to say.

I just asked my family and they confirmed it. They (Russian Orthodox religion) don't believe that he was god, they do believe that he was his son though.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Of course it was necessary, otherwise every offspring Adam and Eve had would have never procreated and the human race would have died off.

There was no Adam and Eve though. Also, it makes absolutely no sense to start with just two people, because the more bio-diversity you have at the genetic level within a species, the greater that species chances of survival.

Jesus didn't come to abrogate the law, he came to fulfill it's moral and legal demands, its teachings, prophecy, and the penalty, on the cross. The Apostle Paul said, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes" Romans 10:4. He completed the law. What it could not do, Christ did to make it a perfect sacrifice to satisfy God.

That is not what the Gospels imply, especially since they say, multiple times, that Jesus did not abolish the laws and the laws are not to be neglected.

"One jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled:"

Until "all" is fulfilled. According to Jesus, there is still more to come, and by "all" we can reasonable assume this also includes the day of his return, since that too needs fulfilled.

 

[sovietchild]

It is actually a good idea. It is so easy to forget him, with everything we have to do today. Children, work, and all that. Difficult to find time for the supreme creator. Life has become so busy that it is very easy to forget that we have been created by a supreme being in heaven.

But maybe nowdays there are apps. You know, some sort of programmable reminder that we have been created. Something that pings us everyday with something like "you have been created by a supreme being in heaven, do not forget that!".


Ciao

- viole

I was gonna make a suggestion to put a Quran on top of this website just like they have with Bible.

But make it a slide show so I/we would come every day and started to read where I/we left off.

 

[kaoticprofit]

There was no Adam and Eve though. Also, it makes absolutely no sense to start with just two people, because the more bio-diversity you have at the genetic level within a species, the greater that species chances of survival.

That is not what the Gospels imply, especially since they say, multiple times, that Jesus did not abolish the laws and the laws are not to be neglected.

Until "all" is fulfilled. According to Jesus, there is still more to come, and by "all" we can reasonable assume this also includes the day of his return, since that too needs fulfilled.

Well if you don't believe whatsoever, then what am I doing trying to keep the conversation going? You keep talking about, "species." Since a 'species' is a group of living organism, how did those organisms ever come to have life in the first place? More big bang! How did my burrito end up with chicken when I asked for beef? I know, it was a mindless mistake!