What is your belief about homosexuality?

[Nada]

I am not speaking of telling fellow Christians in private about certain things they may be doing. I am speaking of poiinting at them and saying "You are not a true Christian". The latter is condemning and the former is what is done in love. Learn the difference.

I have learned the difference my angry little tiggerLol...
It is not I who says this.It is God's word.If you do not believe the word of God then it is He you must take this up with.

 

[nazz]

Yes,it makes it very clear that sex with your own gender is wrong in God's eyes.

Last time I checked there were two genders. Funny how the Torah says nothing about lesbians.

 

[gsa]

Yes,it makes it very clear that sex with your own gender is wrong in God's eyes.

You apparently did not read my post. You also assume, without any basis, that the prohibition extends to women. It does not. Look, if you are going to defend the traditionalist position, you need to deal with what the text says in its original language and environment, not translations for a language that had not even developed when it was written.

 

[Nada]

Then he should have resisted entirely. Rape of a woman is in no way less offensive than rape of a man.

But offering up your daughters for gang rape is not? Especially if its against the daughter's will?

Well at first glance one might see it as you do, but God would not have allowed it.It was Lot showing his loyalty to God first.Lot was a true follower of God and would do anything to protect what is holy.Nowhere does it say his daughter and the concubine objected to this.

 

[ChristineES]

Yes God judges and his word in the holy scriptures tells us how he feels about these things.So it is up to us to follow His commands,if one is a true follower of God.

On

I am not speaking of telling fellow Christians in private about certain things they may be doing. I am speaking of poiinting at them and saying "You are not a true Christian". The latter is condemning and the former is what is done in love. Learn the difference.

In order to not hijack this thread, I've started this discussion in Same Faith debates.

 

[Nada]

You apparently did not read my post. You also assume, without any basis, that the prohibition extends to women. It does not. Look, if you are going to defend the traditionalist position, you need to deal with what the text says in its original language and environment, not translations for a language that had not even developed when it was written.

Ok...thanks.

 

[Nada]

On

In order to not hijack this thread, I've started this discussion in Same Faith debates.

Great.............

 

[ChristineES]

I have learned the difference my angry little tiggerLol...
It is not I who says this.It is God's word.If you do not believe the word of God then it is He you must take this up with.

I'm not angry. I do believe God's word and I follow God's word. Just because I choose to not discuss something doesn't mean otherwise.

 

[Nada]

I'm not angry. I do believe God's word and I follow God's word. Just because I choose to not discuss something doesn't mean otherwise.

Ok thanks.

 

[Midnight Rain]

Well at first glance one might see it as you do, but God would not have allowed it.It was Lot showing his loyalty to God first.Lot was a true follower of God and would do anything to protect what is holy.Nowhere does it say his daughter and the concubine objected to this.

What you fail to see is that it doesn't matter if god was going to allow it or not. Lot intended to offer up his daughters as gang rape victims rather than offering up himself, fighting or fleeing. He had no right to offer his daughters in the first place. That would be like throwing a baby to feed the lions to protect god's angels. There was no mention of the girls' willingness or resistance. Though I doubt they were taking kindly to it.

I did not mention a concubine.

 

[Nada]

What you fail to see is that it doesn't matter if god was going to allow it or not. Lot intended to offer up his daughters as gang rape victims rather than offering up himself, fighting or fleeing. He had no right to offer his daughters in the first place. That would be like throwing a baby to feed the lions to protect god's angels. There was no mention of the girls' willingness or resistance. Though I doubt they were taking kindly to it.

I did not mention a concubine.

God would not let it happen.Those are angles.Lot was just showing his loyalty.Men cannot hurt angels.Lions cannot hurt angels either.Remember it was an angel that kept the lions from eating Daniel in the den.Daniel 6:22 My God sent his angel, and he shut the mouths of the lions. They have not hurt me, because I was found innocent in his sight. Nor have I ever done any wrong before you, Your Majesty."

What you fail to see is that it doesn't matter if god was going to allow it or not. Lot intended to offer up his daughters as gang rape victims rather than offering up himself, fighting or fleeing. He had no right to offer his daughters in the first place. That would be like throwing a baby to feed the lions to protect god's angels. There was no mention of the girls' willingness or resistance. Though I doubt they were taking kindly to it.

I did not mention a concubine.

Yes,it does mention a concubine. Judges 19:24 Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But as for this man, don't do such an outrageous thing."

 

[Midnight Rain]

God would not let it happen.Those are angles.Lot was just showing his loyalty.Men cannot hurt angels.Lions cannot hurt angels either.Remember it was an angel that kept the lions from eating Daniel in the den.Daniel 6:22 My God sent his angel, and he shut the mouths of the lions. They have not hurt me, because I was found innocent in his sight. Nor have I ever done any wrong before you, Your Majesty."

They why try to protect them?
And again it DOES NOT MATTER if god allowed it to happen or not. Lot attempted to sacrifice his daughter and a concubine. Nothing will make that okay. Ever. Regardless if god saved them or not. Lot made an immoral choice.

Yes,it does mention a concubine. Judges 19:24 Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But as for this man, don't do such an outrageous thing."

I was focusing on the daughter. I had not mentioned the concubine. I didn't say that there wasn't one in the passage.

 

[Nada]

They why try to protect them?
And again it DOES NOT MATTER if god allowed it to happen or not. Lot attempted to sacrifice his daughter and a concubine. Nothing will make that okay. Ever. Regardless if god saved them or not. Lot made an immoral choice.
I was focusing on the daughter. I had not mentioned the concubine. I didn't say that there wasn't one in the passage.

Yeah, Lot was a imperfect human trying to use human wisdom to resolve the situation.In his heart he felt that he should try to protect these angles from men.All along these angels were 185,000 times stronger than men.

2 Kings 19:35 That night the angel of the LORD went out and put to death a hundred and eighty-five thousand in the Assyrian camp. When the people got up the next morning--there were all the dead bodies!

 

[Nada]

They why try to protect them?
And again it DOES NOT MATTER if god allowed it to happen or not. Lot attempted to sacrifice his daughter and a concubine. Nothing will make that okay. Ever. Regardless if god saved them or not. Lot made an immoral choice.
I was focusing on the daughter. I had not mentioned the concubine. I didn't say that there wasn't one in the passage.

Lot was just doing what has been taught.Man is to love God more than anything else.

Deuteronomy 33:9 He said of his father and mother, 'I have no regard for them.' He did not recognize his brothers or acknowledge his own children, but he watched over your word and guarded your covenant.

Also taught in the NT

Matthew 10:37 "Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."

 

[Midnight Rain]

Lot was just doing what has been taught.Man is to love God more than anything else.

Deuteronomy 33:9 He said of his father and mother, 'I have no regard for them.' He did not recognize his brothers or acknowledge his own children, but he watched over your word and guarded your covenant.

Also taught in the NT

Matthew 10:37 "Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."

But why then did he offer up someone else? Why not take another course of action rather than sacrificing his daughters? What moral good could that be? Offering up your daughters to be raped is never a moral thing to do regardless of the reasons behind it.

There is a strange connection to sacrifice and self harm and serving god in the Judeo-Christian religions.

Though this idea that your love for god must be greater than your love for your family in strange situations where you must harm your family in order to serve god could be a whole debate upon itself. The concept is so foreign to me that it seems silly but this would derail the whole thread I think.

 

[Draka]

Isn't the most honorable thing to do in a situation such as that to offer up oneself as sacrifice? I mean, if you are wanting to save others, if it is that important to you that some sacrifice must be made, especially bodily, the right and honorable thing to do is to offer oneself. To offer up anyone else is wrong and underhanded and despicable. It's "throwing them under the bus". You then become no better than whatever criminals you are dealing with. Not to mention the whole idea of throwing your own child out as "offering" like that...damn. Reprehensible. IMO this Lot guy would be worthy of eternal damnation if there was such a thing. Honestly, if this was a "test" I'd consider it failed, as I believe any good and benevolent being would as well.

 

[Nada]

They why try to protect them?
And again it DOES NOT MATTER if god allowed it to happen or not. Lot attempted to sacrifice his daughter and a concubine. Nothing will make that okay. Ever. Regardless if god saved them or not. Lot made an immoral choice.
I was focusing on the daughter. I had not mentioned the concubine. I didn't say that there wasn't one in the passage.

You did not mention the concubine?

Isn't the most honorable thing to do in a situation such as that to offer up oneself as sacrifice? I mean, if you are wanting to save others, if it is that important to you that some sacrifice must be made, especially bodily, the right and honorable thing to do is to offer oneself. To offer up anyone else is wrong and underhanded and despicable. It's "throwing them under the bus". You then become no better than whatever criminals you are dealing with. Not to mention the whole idea of throwing your own child out as "offering" like that...damn. Reprehensible. IMO this Lot guy would be worthy of eternal damnation if there was such a thing. Honestly, if this was a "test" I'd consider it failed, as I believe any good and benevolent being would as well.

Then Lot would have done worse by offering himself,being a man,to other men, for that purpose.Sodomy.

 

[Midnight Rain]

You did not mention the concubine?

Not in my post no.

Then Lot would have done worse by offering himself,being a man,to other men, for that purpose.Sodomy.

Then lot should have gone out there and gave out handjobs. Lots of handjobs. Pun intentional

 

[Draka]

Then Lot would have done worse by offering himself,being a man,to other men, for that purpose.Sodomy.

One, he did not have to offer up anyone, but could have looked for another way to handle the situation. Two, by "offering" anyone up he condoned rape which is or is not just as "sinful" as sodomy? A sin is a sin is it not? And three, if he was to go ahead and offer up someone as sacrifice (therefore condoning rape already) then he still should have offered himself as if he really thought he was saving anyone or helping anyone then he should have believed that his God would forgive him the "sodomy" sin as apparently he thought that him being forgiven for condoning rape was already a given.

 

[Nada]

Not in my post no.


Then lot should have gone out there and gave out handjobs. Lots of handjobs. Pun intentional

Ok.Now I must cut you off.I do not tolerate that kind of talk.I'm sorry........