What is your belief about homosexuality?

[Nada]

One, he did not have to offer up anyone, but could have looked for another way to handle the situation. Two, by "offering" anyone up he condoned rape which is or is not just as "sinful" as sodomy? A sin is a sin is it not? And three, if he was to go ahead and offer up someone as sacrifice (therefore condoning rape already) then he still should have offered himself as if he really thought he was saving anyone or helping anyone then he should have believed that his God would forgive him the "sodomy" sin as apparently he thought that him being forgiven for condoning rape was already a given.

Lot did offer his virgin daughter and the concubine.It never says they refused or objected.How is it rape if it is willingly? Besides,God would not let it happen.

 

[Draka]

Lot did offer his virgin daughter and the concubine.It never says they refused or objected.How is it rape if it is willingly? Besides,God would not let it happen.

He still shouldn't have. It was still wrong. And by saying that God wouldn't let it happen,...I have to wonder what was so special about those women offered up for rape that God would stop it, yet not stop all the other times where a woman is gang raped. Why does he let those happen?

 

[nazz]

Ok.Now I must cut you off.I do not tolerate that kind of talk.I'm sorry........

Pretty soon you'll just be talking with yourself. Much safer to protect one's dogma, LOL

 

[nazz]

That Lot dude must not have been too smart. Offering virgin girls to gay men? Unless it is not really about homosexuality

 

[Nada]

He still shouldn't have. It was still wrong. And by saying that God wouldn't let it happen,...I have to wonder what was so special about those women offered up for rape that God would stop it, yet not stop all the other times where a woman is gang raped. Why does he let those happen?

Because God's angels were there.They were trying to hurry because Sodom was already set for destruction.As soon as Lot and his family were taken away by the angels the city was destroyed.It was already set in motion.There was no time for anything other than running away.

 

[Midnight Rain]

Ok.Now I must cut you off.I do not tolerate that kind of talk.I'm sorry........

Dunno if you can see it and if not thats fine. I was using humor to show that there were a million other ways to handle the situation rather than offering up people for rape. Continued justification of that act is a mistake. If you had said something along the lines of "He was only human and made a mistake" or "there was a lapse of judgment and god had to step in with the angels but his heart was in the right place" I could have understood that.

 

[Nada]

I have to go start the pit.Spurs game starting in one hour.I have to B.B.Que.Smoke some chicken.Time to chill the beer too.

 

[nazz]

I think I got it. Handjobs and sodomy are out. Rape and genocide are in. Makes perfect sense!

 

[Draka]

Because God's angels were there.They were trying to hurry because Sodom was already set for destruction.As soon as Lot and his family were taken away by the angels the city was destroyed.It was already set in motion.There was no time for anything other than running away.

That doesn't make much sense. There was obviously time for some questionable sex and it still doesn't answer why God doesn't stop other rapes. If God is all-powerful and it was his plan for Sodom he could have delayed it, could have sped it up, whatever. And if he found that Lot condoning rape was okay I still don't see why sodomy wouldn't be forgiven given Lot supposedly was trying to save others. And again, why not stop other rapes? To say that God wasn't really going to let it happen is to say that God stopped a rape for a good follower. What of all the good Christian women whom have been raped? Or men for that matter? Were they not good enough? And by not saving women from being raped when, at least you believe, he had stopped other women from being raped, is God not condoning the rape of others?

 

[gsa]

Yes,it does mention a concubine. Judges 19:24 Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But as for this man, don't do such an outrageous thing."

1. Different story. But it does demonstrate the mythic nature of both accounts.

2. I would think the fact it was angels might make you rethink the intended moral of the story.

 

[Nada]

1. Different story. But it does demonstrate the mythic nature of both accounts.

2. I would think the fact it was angels might make you rethink the intended moral of the story.

?

 

[Nada]

That doesn't make much sense. There was obviously time for some questionable sex and it still doesn't answer why God doesn't stop other rapes. If God is all-powerful and it was his plan for Sodom he could have delayed it, could have sped it up, whatever. And if he found that Lot condoning rape was okay I still don't see why sodomy wouldn't be forgiven given Lot supposedly was trying to save others. And again, why not stop other rapes? To say that God wasn't really going to let it happen is to say that God stopped a rape for a good follower. What of all the good Christian women whom have been raped? Or men for that matter? Were they not good enough? And by not saving women from being raped when, at least you believe, he had stopped other women from being raped, is God not condoning the rape of others?

Quick sex? Ok......

 

[Ingledsva]

The bible does not say free will either but you can gather from the information that this is what it speaks of right when it says you have the choice to do what you want? Same with sodomy.Have you never read the story of Sodom and Gomorrah?
Judges 19:22
22 While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, “Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him.”

ING - Jdg 19:22Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

And here he tells us what that means!!!!!!!!!


Jdg 20:4 And the Levite, the husband of the woman that was slain, answered and said, I came into Gibeah that belongeth to Benjamin, I and my concubine, to lodge.

Jdg 20:5 And the men of Gibeah rose against me, and beset the house round about upon me by night, and thought to have slain me: and my concubine have they forced, that she is dead.
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You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. (NKJ, Leviticus 18:22) This does not speak of lying down next to someone. This is implying sexual intercourse.

ING - This is MOLACH worship - not homosexuality!!!!!!!!!! It changes to MOLECH worship at 18:21!


Lev 18:21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Lev 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
Lev 18:24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:

Lev 18:21 And your semen don't give in copulation to MOLECH, and don't desecrate/prostitute yourself; honor Elohiym, I am YHVH!
Lev 18:22 And FOR/before man; don't lie down for sex in the beds of woman, Idolatrous are these.
Lev 18:23 And also with any beasts don't lay carnally, thus defiling yourself. And thus also woman shall not be employed to serve beasts in copulation. Bestiality it is!
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Romans 1:26
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.

ING - AGAIN SACRED SEX! It tells us so!

Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four-footed beasts, and serpents.

Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:

~~ ~ NOTE: the people in 24 that dishonor their bodies, are the people WHO worship the Act of Creation in 25! Religious Sexuality! ~~~

Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of Deity into a lie, and worship and render religious homage to the "Act of Creation" more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Homosexuals are obviously NOT rendering RELIGIOUS HOMAGE to God with their Sex act.

This is Sacred Sex.

"The Greek phrase para physin is commonly translated into the English word "unnatural". This is an error. Unnatural implies that the act is morally condemned. In Greek, the phrase really means "that which is beyond the ordinary and usual." "Unconventional"

So not being owned by a man and being his broodmare was "unconventional." Obviously choosing to be a Sacred Prostitute would be "unconventional."

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1 Cornithians 6:9,10. Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters,adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality,

ING - There is NO - men who practice or submit to homosexuality, in this text!!!!!

1 CO 6:9 Know you not that the “heathen” shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: Neither prostitutes (pornos,) nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the morally weak, nor arsenokoites (rapists,)

There are no ancient Greek texts using arsenokoites or its stem as homosexuality. There are uses for both male and female as RAPE.

The Thesaurus Linguae Graecae. TLG has collected and digitized most literary texts written in Greek, from the 8th century BC to the fall of Byzantium in AD 1453. They have 73 references to the arsenokoit stem. There are NO early Greek uses of the word as “homosexual.” LATER - the church decides to translate it as such – then these later texts, copy the church change.

We have gone OVER & OVER & OVER these verses! NOT a single one of them is about homosexuality!

I have answered them again - WITHIN YOUR TEXT!

 

[Ingledsva]

What about all the real gang-rape victims? Why didn't god step in for them? And even if there was a good answer for that Lot still attempted to give up his daughters (not their will but use them as if they were objects) to satisfy a rape mob. That is not moral in any way regardless of god's plan. Lot should have offered up HIMSELF rather than his daughters.

Yep! Women are just owned broodmares in this religion.

There are actually three such gang-rape stories in the Bible.

In each case the men offer the women to be raped.

In one - she is gang-rapped to death, then her owner cuts her into pieces and sends her body parts off to raise up the other tribes. I guess property damage was a fighting offense, - since tossing women to the rapists wasn't!

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[Ingledsva]

If Lot would have given up himself than he would have been condoning sodomy.He offered his daughters who have natural parts for men.Besides God would not have let it happen.The angels took care of it.Just like God did not let Abraham kill Isaac.Abraham knew God would not have let it happen.

UMMM! Dude! You realize there are other such stories in there - where the woman is raped to death - and then hacked into pieces! RIGHT?

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[columbus]

. If God is all-powerful and it was his plan for Sodom he could have delayed it, could have sped it up, whatever. And if he found that Lot condoning rape was okay I still don't see why sodomy wouldn't be forgiven given Lot supposedly was trying to save others.

You might want to read the end of that story.

Lot wound up in a cave boinking his daughters and drinking heavily.
From Genesis:

30 ¶ And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters. 31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth: 32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. 33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. 34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. 35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. 36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father. 37 And the firstborn bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day. 38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Ben-ammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.

Lot was really gross by modern standards. But the standards of the day....



There is a better explanation for the existence of this story. The Ammonites and the Moabites were local peoples who the Israelites had put into subjection due to their superior military power. So the Israelites made up a story that made them the incestuous ******* children of a relative of Abraham. That explains to morally primitive people why they are so similar to the Israelites, but the Israelites felt entitled to oppress them with impunity.
Tom

 

[Ingledsva]

Lot did offer his virgin daughter and the concubine.It never says they refused or objected.How is it rape if it is willingly? Besides,God would not let it happen.

You have got to be frigging kidding! They would not consent to be thrown to a mob to be gang-raped! PERIOD!

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[Ingledsva]

You might want to read the end of that story.

Lot wound up in a cave boinking his daughters and drinking heavily.
From Genesis:
Lot was really gross by modern standards. But the standards of the day....



There is a better explanation for the existence of this story. The Ammonites and the Moabites were local peoples who the Israelites had put into subjection due to their superior military power. So the Israelites made up a story that made them the incestuous ******* children of a relative of Abraham. That explains to morally primitive people why they are so similar to the Israelites, but the Israelites felt entitled to oppress them with impunity.
Tom

Yep! What a "Godly" man - LOL! Toss the women to gang-rape, then have sex with your daughters. The story tries to make it totally the daughters' fault too.

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[ChristineES]

You have got to be frigging kidding! They would not consent to be thrown to a mob to be gang-raped! PERIOD!

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You do realize that Lot did this on his own and it does not state whether God or men approved or not. Just because Lot thought it was the right thing to do does not mean that it was. We don't need to look at the story of Lot as "something we all ought to do". None of the people I've studied the Bible with agree with everything that Lot did, including having incest while drunk with his daughters and having children with them. No one said Lot was an example.

 

[Ingledsva]

You do realize that Lot did this on his own and it does not state whether God or men approved or not. Just because Lot thought it was the right thing to do does not mean that it was. We don't need to look at the story of Lot as "something we all ought to do". None of the people I've studied the Bible with agree with everything that Lot did, including having incest while drunk with his daughters and having children with them. No one said Lot was an example.

This was in reply to -

Lot did offer his virgin daughter and the concubine. It never says they refused or objected. How is it rape if it is willingly? Besides,God would not let it happen.

What a bunch of BULL!


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