cataway
Well-Known Member
"eternal life" means just that,,,,,never dying ! LOL you contradicted yourself so quickly you did not even see it happen
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What really happens to you after you die...
- Thread starter dfnj
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, eternal life does not mean never dying, and it certainly does not mean living forever in a physical body on earth!
When Jesus referred to eternal life, He was not referring to physical life of the body.
He was referring a quality of life, spiritual life, loving God and being close to God.
The soul is eternal, the body perishes. That is why Jesus said:
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life
All the verses below refer to eternal life of the soul, not eternal life of the physical body. The physical body is mortal so it perishes when we die.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
All souls will continue to exist in the spiritual world after the body dies but not all souls will have eternal life (everlasting life).
Eternal life refers to a “quality” of life, nearness to God which, according to Jesus, comes from believing in Him.
“The immortality of the spirit is mentioned in the Holy Books; it is the fundamental basis of the divine religions. Now punishments and rewards are said to be of two kinds: first, the rewards and punishments of this life; second, those of the other world. But the paradise and hell of existence are found in all the worlds of God, whether in this world or in the spiritual heavenly worlds. Gaining these rewards is the gaining of eternal life. That is why Christ said, “Act in such a way that you may find eternal life, and that you may be born of water and the spirit, so that you may enter into the Kingdom.” 2”
Some Answered Questions, p. 223
The souls of people who are distant from God will not have eternal life; although their soul will continue to exist in the spiritual world after their physical body dies they will be “as dead” compared to those souls who are close to God.
“In the same way, the souls who are veiled from God, although they exist in this world and in the world after death, are, in comparison with the holy existence of the children of the Kingdom of God, nonexisting and separated from God.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 243
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cataway
Well-Known Member
weird you keep saying there's no eternal life yet you keep posting scripture that says there is
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I did not say there was no eternal life.
I said that eternal life refers to a “quality” of life, nearness to God, which, according to Jesus, comes from believing in Jesus.
That is why Jesus said:
- you who believe in the name of the Son of God that may know that you have eternal life.
- he (God) gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
One also has to believe in God to gain eternal life and that is why Jesus said:
- He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life
Those verses imply that those who do not believe in Jesus, and God who sent Jesus, will not have eternal life.
However, since all souls are immortal, the souls of the nonbelievers will continue to exist in the spiritual world after their physical body dies, but they will be “as dead” compared to those souls who are close to God.
“In the same way, the souls who are veiled from God, although they exist in this world and in the world after death, are, in comparison with the holy existence of the children of the Kingdom of God, nonexisting and separated from God.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 243
Even Satan is Not death proof - Hebrews 2:14 B
The soul that sins dies - Ezekiel 18:4,20
'Yes', according to Numbers 31:28 animals are also souls
True, there is No salvation for the dead physical body that decomposes, but salvation is due to God's memory Book of Life
Because of the Book of Life being in God's memory a physical resurrection is possible
ALL the people Jesus resurrected had happy-and-healthy physical resurrections
Jesus resurrected No one to Heaven only all earthly resurrections
Jesus was giving us a glimpse, a foreshadow, a preview, a coming attraction of what he will be doing on a GRAND-GLOBAL scale
This is a reason why Jesus wants us to ask for God's Kingdom to come ( thy kingdom come......... )
We don't pray to 'go away' to the kingdom, nor pray to 'go up' to the kingdom, but rather for the kinging to come.........
We are all invited to ask God for Jesus to come ! - Rev. 22:20
Come Jesus and bring 'healing' (Not to Heaven) but healing to earth's nations - Rev. 22:2
In death 'there is No life' according to Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5 and Jesus at John 11:11-14
If there was life in death there would be No need for a resurrection - Acts 24:15
If there were ' those alive ' at death the living do Not need a resurrection
Jesus promised that there would be people who will ' inherit the Earth ' (earthly realm of God's Kingdom) Matt. 5:5; Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26
The only people called to heaven are people like those of Daniel 7:18; Luke 22:28-30
The majority of mankind can gain 'everlasting life on Earth' as originally offered to Adam before his downfall
I was giving more thought to the ^ above ^ because even any traces of DNA can be lost
So, it is not even DNA needed, but according to Scripture (Malachi 3:16) one needs to be in God's memory Book of Remembrance
God's Book of Remembrance (Psalm 56:8) is what is needed so that one's name is Not erased from the Book of the Living - Psalm 69:28
Wicked people will be wiped out of God's memory Book - 2nd Peter 3:9; Psalms 92:7; 104:35; 145:20; Proverbs 2:22
Unrepentant wicked names wiped out of God's Book - Exodus 32:32-33
Thus, resurrection can depend on Not becoming wicked - Acts 24:15 (KJV just and unjust) can have a resurrection
I see at John 3:16 both 'perish and eternal life' - the wicked perish - 2nd Peter 3:9; Psalms 92:7; 104:35; 145:20; Proverbs 2:22
So, when do the dead gain eternal life but ' after ' they are resurrected on the last day - John 6:40; John 20:31
( Last Day is: Jesus' coming Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years )
Notice: resurrection is still future - Acts 24:15 - ' there is going to be' a resurrection.....'
( Resurrection ( eternal life ) takes place after Jesus' comes - 1st Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8 )
As far as 1st John 5:13 goes, notice also 1st John 1:2 because Jesus came from everlasting life, and can give eternal life - John 17:3
1st John 3:14-15 love keeps a person from abiding in death ( staying dead )
John 5:24, 28-29; 6:40 thus ' adverse judgement ' can mean 'loss of life' aka eternal death - Jeremiah 51:39,57
So, a dead person passes from death unto life when they are resurrected
Some have a first or earlier resurrection to govern with Christ in Heaven as kings and priests - Rev. 20:6; 5:9-10; 2:10
The majority of people can have a happy-and-healthy future physical resurrection being restored back to live life forever on Earth
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Nobody passes from physical death to physical life. The physical body once dead remains dead.
A person passes from spiritual death to spiritual life when they are resurrected.
"According to the Bahá’í teaching the Resurrection has nothing to do with the gross physical body. That body, once dead, is done with. It becomes decomposed and its atoms will never be recomposed into the same body.
Resurrection is the birth of the individual to spiritual life, through the gift of the Holy Spirit bestowed through the Manifestation of God. The grave from which he arises is the grave of ignorance and negligence of God. The sleep from which he awakens is the dormant spiritual condition in which many await the dawn of the Day of God. This dawn illumines all who have lived on the face of the earth, whether they are in the body or out of the body, but those who are spiritually blind cannot perceive it. The Day of Resurrection is not a day of twenty-four hours, but an era which has now begun and will last as long as the present world cycle continues. It will continue when all traces of the present civilization will have been wiped off the surface of the globe.”
Up to this time no one has been resurrected because resurrection is still future - Acts 24:15
Even DNA can cease to exist but God's Book of Remembrance is a record of remembered names
One can have their name blotted out of God's Book of Life if one does Not remain in God's memory
Even DNA can cease to exist but God's Book of Remembrance is a record of remembered names
One can have their name blotted out of God's Book of Life if one does Not remain in God's memory
I find No record of Eve passing from 'spiritual death to spiritual life' but that she believed Satan's lie at Gen. 3:4 that she would Not die
Everyone since Adam & Eve remains dead. Dead physically, mentally, spiritually.
God resurrected dead Jesus back to his pre-human spirit body because Jesus was sent from Heaven to Earth for us - Hebrews 9:24
No one was offered Heaven before Jesus came - John 3:13
Resurrected to Heaven was a new teaching but Not for everyone to be resurrected to Heaven
Only people like those of Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18 are called to have a resurrection in a spirit body
ALL the resurrections Jesus performed were 'physical ' resurrections
Jesus was giving us a preview, a coming attraction, of what Jesus will be doing on a GRAND-GLOBAL scale
This 'physical resurrection' begins during Jesus' coming 1000 year reign over Earth
This is when ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth - 1st Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not believe there was ever an Eve. I believe the story of Adam and Eve was an allegory.
I believe there was a man called Adam and that he was the first prophet in the Adamic Cycle of religion which ended with Muhammad, and that is why Muhammad was called the Seal of the prophets.
Everyone who ever died remains dead physically and mentally because the brain dies when the body dies.
Everyone who has ever died is alive in the spiritual world, since everyone has a soul and the soul is immortal.
Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
That verse does not say that God resurrected dead Jesus back to his pre-human spirit body because Jesus was sent from Heaven to Earth for us.
You say that.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
That verse does not say that no one was offered Heaven before Jesus came.
Jesus is saying that no person has ever gone to Heaven and returned. The only person present on earth who was once in Heaven is Christ Himself.
The Resuscitation of Man from the Dead and His Entrance into Eternal Life
421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
At physical death the body dies and the souls of everyone go to the spiritual world and that is where they remain forever.
Heaven is a state of the soul that is near to God, and Hell is a state of the soul that is far from God.
Not everyone goes to Heaven. Some people go to Hell.
There is no such thing as a physical resurrection back to life on Earth.
The physical body once dead remains dead. It does not come out of the grave and get put back together.
It is no small wonder that there are atheists because no rational person could ever believe what Christians believe.
I'd be an atheist too if I had to believe what Christians believe.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Do you believe Adam was a real person and Eve not? Why so?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not base my beliefs upon what is in the Bible.
Not only do I not believe everything that is in the Bible, but I believe many of the Bible stories are allegorical, not real life events that took place.
I believe the story of Adam and Eve is one of the allegorical stories and the some possible meanings are explained in this chapter:
I believe Adam was a real person because the Baha'i Writings refer to Adam as the first prophet of the religious cycle that began with Adam.
Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 160-161
reference.bahai.org
cataway
Well-Known Member
''first prophet of the religious cycle'' just what is a religious cycle ?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That was explained on this link:
Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 160-161
reference.bahai.org
but I can explain it further if you want me to.
cataway
Well-Known Member
I don't believe you can
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Why not?
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Interesting. I thought if the story about prehistoric times is considered allegorical then both persons are considered unreal. I understand now from your writings that according to your faith every cycle had a Manifestation.
How was Adam a Manifestation for all separated human (Homo) groups? How did his message reach all the groups?