What Right Has God To Judge Us?

[Aqualung]

That's too exclusive a club for me. Guess I'm not good enough.

How does that follow from the conversation we've been having? :areyoucra

 

[Popeyesays]

The "Flood" is just as metaphoric as the Creation Myth. Historically the area around the Black Sea was inundated when the waters of the Mediterranean broke the natural dam of the Bosphorus.

That inundation which is demonstrable geologically, took place over decades and the shocking effect of the rising waters gives rise to the mythology of the Flood.

God did not drown anyone. It is the nature of life that whatever lives, dies eventually. That is the greatest example of Justice i can attribute to God--He brings us all into existence and slays us each and everyone.

As to the murders of the TaNakh--well the only one killing anyone was man himself, so there's no guilt there either.

What right? He created the universes, therefore He does as He pleases. There is no appeal from that fact of existence.

Regards,

Scott

 

[Buttercup]

How does that follow from the conversation we've been having? :areyoucra

My response you quote was in response to this comment of yours.

Why do you automatically exclude meeting him? Some people have been able to meet him, like Moses and Joseph Smith.

In other words.....if only two people have been so blessed as to having met god, it's not fair. Why should I believe those two people whom I've never known and lived long ago? Why shouldn't I get my own meeting with God?

 

[w00t]

God didn't have his son killed. Jesus volunteered and if you continued reading after Jesus died, you would notice he was resurrected and lives today.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm!!! Just maybe that was the spin the disciples put on a very bad situation, their charismatic leader being topped by the Romans for getting up the noses of the religious leaders of the time!

 

[Buttercup]

um. to answer your question, you gain knowledge about God bit by bit (yes, from the holy spirit) until you know God. Now that isn't to say that you know everything about God but rather that you know perfectly that he is (exists etc).

This is not enough...the Holy Spirit is an ambiguous being, I don't see how you can't admit that. If an audible voice of a man popped into my head saying, "Rhonda, God surely exists!" I might take note. But, like I've said before, the Holy Spirit sounds just like me...

The reason why denying the holy spirit (we say 'holy ghost') is unpardonable. Because when the HS has told you it is true, you KNOW, there is no doubt and so if one still deny it, one is saying "I don't care that I know God is, I still deny him."

I was a Christian for a very long time...25 years. I prayed every day and went through more trials than I care to bring up. Never in all that time did I feel "FOR SURE" that God was talking to me. Usually, I just surmised that it was his will for whatever had happened.

1. Faith that God exists.
2. HS confirms that God exists.
3. HS guides you and teaches you.
4. God confirms God exists.

How does all this happen? Invisibly? Audibly? Prayerfully? Because as I mentioned I was a devout follower of Christ. I was never absolutely certain of God's existence through all those years.

And please don't say that I didn't try hard enough or didn't have enough faith. Just assume I did ok? Because I KNOW I had enough faith. Or more succintly, I can't imagine needing more faith than what I had.

Anyway, I am sure that is more than you wanted to hear for such a short question.

I appreciate your comments, Comp. Kindness is always appreciated.

 

[Comprehend]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm!!! Just maybe that was the spin the disciples put on a very bad situation, their charismatic leader being topped by the Romans for getting up the noses of the religious leaders of the time!

and maybe not.

 

[Quiddity]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm!!! Just maybe that was the spin the disciples put on a very bad situation, their charismatic leader being topped by the Romans for getting up the noses of the religious leaders of the time!

By all means join the party.

Everybody puts there spin into it.

*cough cough* including you.

 

[MoonWater]

Not very loving?? I guess dying for you isnt enough, maybe a bunch of flowers would have been more loving for you, eh?
If you have read the Bible you do not understand it. If your mum/dad ever punished you for something you did wrong was it because they didnt love you? If a person goes to prison for breaking the law, is that not justice??
Simple logic hear, people, please!:cover:

When mum/dad punish you they don't punish you for an eternity or even for the rest of your life. And while I don't remember where I'm pretty sure there is a passage in the bible that says something along the lines of "if you walk into a town and find ONE person in that town who doesn't believe in God then the whole town should be destroyed." What about killing all the first born of egypt, the great flood. I also remember two seperate passages, one that states that if a woman is raped she must marry the man who raped her and another that said that if woman is raped you should not only kill the one who raped her but kill the woman herself. How are any of these things justice, or signs of a loving God?

 

[MoonWater]

The morals of the OT are Justice without mercy and that was what was required before the Atonement, justice must be satisfied. After the Atonement, God was able to show mercy, that is why Jesus gave a new law. Through the Atonement Jesus satisfied the demands of justice and allowed for God to be just while showing mercy.

Thus, an "eye for an eye" could be exchanged for "turn the other cheek" and God could remain perfectly just.

And why was God not able to show mercy beforhand? After all he's GOD. If he wanted to show mercy why couldn't he just show mercy? Why did he NEED to have jesus sacrifice himself before he could start being merciful?

 

[Aqualung]

My response you quote was in response to this comment of yours.

Yes, but it changed the topic. I was questioning why we would exclude meeting God (which you requrested in reference to having perfect knowledge of God), when Christian tradition has many examples of people meeting God. Instead of addressing this issue (that is, improperly qualifying your concern), you changed it to discussing some problem you have with exclusivity.

 

[Buttercup]

you changed it to discussing some problem you have with exclusivity.

Only in your mind, sorry.

 

[Popeyesays]

Why should we fear "paying for the flesh"? God is perfect Justice. God is perfect Grace. God is Perfect Mercy.

"1. O SON OF SPIRIT!
My first counsel is this: Possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart, that thine may be a sovereignty ancient, imperishable and everlasting.
2. O SON OF SPIRIT!
The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes.
3. O SON OF MAN!
Veiled in My immemorial being and in the ancient eternity of My essence, I knew My love for thee; therefore I created thee, have engraved on thee Mine image and revealed to thee My beauty.
4. O SON OF MAN!
I loved thy creation, hence I created thee. Wherefore, do thou love Me, that I may name thy name and fill thy soul with the spirit of life.
5. O SON OF BEING!
Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant.
6. O SON OF BEING!
Thy Paradise is My love; thy heavenly home, reunion with Me. Enter therein and tarry not. This is that which hath been destined for thee in Our kingdom above and Our exalted dominion.
7. O SON OF MAN!
If thou lovest Me, turn away from thyself; and if thou seekest My pleasure, regard not thine own; that thou mayest die in Me and I may eternally live in thee.
8. O SON OF SPIRIT!
There is no peace for thee save by renouncing thyself and turning unto Me; for it behooveth thee to glory in My name, not in thine own; to put thy trust in Me and not in thyself, since I desire to be loved alone and above all that is.
9. O SON OF BEING!
My love is My stronghold; he that entereth therein is safe and secure, and he that turneth away shall surely stray and perish.
10. O SON OF UTTERANCE! Thou art My stronghold; enter therein that thou mayest abide in safety. My love is in thee, know it, that thou mayest find Me near unto thee.
11. O SON OF BEING!
Thou art My lamp and My light is in thee. Get thou from it thy radiance and seek none other than Me. For I have created thee rich and have bountifully shed My favor upon thee.
12. O SON OF BEING!
With the hands of power I made thee and with the fingers of strength I created thee; and within thee have I placed the essence of My light. Be thou content with it and seek naught else, for My work is perfect and My command is binding. Question it not, nor have a doubt thereof.
13. O SON OF SPIRIT!
I created thee rich, why dost thou bring thyself down to poverty? Noble I made thee, wherewith dost thou abase thyself? Out of the essence of knowledge I gave thee being, why seekest thou enlightenment from anyone beside Me? Out of the clay of love I molded thee, how dost thou busy thyself with another? Turn thy sight unto thyself, that thou mayest find Me standing within thee, mighty, powerful and self-subsisting.
14. O SON OF MAN!
Thou art My dominion and My dominion perisheth not; wherefore fearest thou thy perishing? Thou art My light and My light shall never be extinguished; why dost thou dread extinction? Thou art My glory and My glory fadeth not; thou art My robe and My robe shall never be outworn. Abide then in thy love for Me, that thou mayest find Me in the realm of glory.

 

[Buttercup]

Great verses, Popeye! Thanks for sharing those.

 

[Ozzie]

The God of the Bible has blood on his hands if all that is attributed to the deity is true. Not even the worst of humans has committed as many vile crimes as God!

God had a hissy fit one day because some folk didn't believe in him, and decided to 'drown' the world, only saving his sycophant Noah, his family and pairs of all the animals in the world! What a despicable crime! Even if all the humans were guilty of anything, what about the animals?

If we take the Bible as literally true then God has absolutely no moral high ground at all and has no right to judge any of us!

God does not judge us. We judge ourselves. God is horribly human.

 

[Kcnorwood]

Not very loving?? I guess dying for you isnt enough, maybe a bunch of flowers would have been more loving for you, eh?
If you have read the Bible you do not understand it. If your mum/dad ever punished you for something you did wrong was it because they didnt love you? quote]

I've posted this statement before but I'll post it again just for you.

Why should people be judged for something that God created? Look at it this way christans call God thire Father, what kind of father would create them & then place something in front of them & tells then not to toouch it? Furthermore he creates another more powerful being that is tempting the child & he knows the child will give in. How can ANY God who calls himself our father judge people for what he did?

Your mom & dad would never send you to hell not unless they are batty!

 

[Katzpur]

A loving God doesn't send a person to hell for all eternity with no absolute proof of his existence. Somebody give me a good explanation as to how that's loving.

Okay!


Nah... I think I already did.

 

[Super Universe]

The God of the Bible has blood on his hands if all that is attributed to the deity is true. Not even the worst of humans has committed as many vile crimes as God!

God had a hissy fit one day because some folk didn't believe in him, and decided to 'drown' the world, only saving his sycophant Noah, his family and pairs of all the animals in the world! What a despicable crime! Even if all the humans were guilty of anything, what about the animals?

If we take the Bible as literally true then God has absolutely no moral high ground at all and has no right to judge any of us!

If your home town floods tomorrow will you also blame God for that? The earth is a dynamic place where great floods happen, great ice ages happen, and more, be glad it is so, it could easily have been another Mars or Venus.

The ancients blamed every natural occurence on God. They did this because they were ignorant of the causes of storms, lightning, and meteors. God did none of it.

God does not judge, He has no need to. You can't get to heaven until you learn HOW to get there. It's on you to do whenever you get around to it.

 

[Comprehend]

This is not enough...the Holy Spirit is an ambiguous being, I don't see how you can't admit that. If an audible voice of a man popped into my head saying, "Rhonda, God surely exists!" I might take note. But, like I've said before, the Holy Spirit sounds just like me...

I was a Christian for a very long time...25 years. I prayed every day and went through more trials than I care to bring up. Never in all that time did I feel "FOR SURE" that God was talking to me. Usually, I just surmised that it was his will for whatever had happened.

It is difficult to discern what is the spirit and what is yourself but once you learn it becomes easy, like riding a bike.

You know it is the spirit because you get a thought in your head with a corresponding feeling in your heart.

D&C 8:2
2 Yea, behold, I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart.

The Apostles understood this when Jesus visited them after his death:

Luke 24:32
32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

How does all this happen? Invisibly? Audibly? Prayerfully? Because as I mentioned I was a devout follower of Christ. I was never absolutely certain of God's existence through all those years.

In all those years were you baptized and have the Gift of the Holy Ghost conferred on you by the laying on of hands by proper authority?

When you do, you are given the right to the constant companship of the holy ghost as long as we live worthily (when we don't the spirit will leave us and we must repent to get it back).

How does it happen?

Faith is all you. That is the first and possibly the most difficult step. Faith will lead one to act and be obedient to God.

The Holy Ghost operates as I have described above, it will be thoughts in your head along with a feeling in your heart that is sometimes described as burning.

When God confirms it, it can be audible, or God may actually show himself to you and speak with you.

And please don't say that I didn't try hard enough or didn't have enough faith. Just assume I did ok? Because I KNOW I had enough faith. Or more succintly, I can't imagine needing more faith than what I had.
I appreciate your comments, Comp. Kindness is always appreciated.

I have no doubt that you had enough faith, and I can appreciate your frustration.
I also think that you were probably lacking proper direction in what to do with that faith. There are specific ordinances one must take part in such as baptism and confirmation by proper authority that God absolutely requires.

I don't think lack of faith was the problem, probably lack of direction and authority.

I know that my view is quite biased towards my own faith but I also know that it works, Latter-Day Saints enjoy daily guidance from the Holy Ghost and we are able to tell what is our thoughts and what is not. So, speaking from experience, I think I should be biased towards my own faith. However, I understand your view will be different.

 

[Comprehend]

And why was God not able to show mercy beforhand? After all he's GOD. If he wanted to show mercy why couldn't he just show mercy? Why did he NEED to have jesus sacrifice himself before he could start being merciful?

Because God is subject to laws such as the law of justice.

God is not all powerful. He has rules.

I am guessing this is your first run in with mormonism?

 

[MoonWater]

Because God is subject to laws such as the law of justice.

God is not all powerful. He has rules.

Then wouldn't that suggest there is someone or something higher than God?

Do you know much about mormonism?

Not really.