What"s with all the secrecy???

[Willamena]

Well, we do construct our own worlds/realities.
The problem evolves when we [are not aware]
what we have made, how we constructed it,
or that "it" even exists.

See, I don't that as a problem (if it's what you meant). That's a solution.

It's because we're aware that we're a construct that we create even more elaborate constructs to explain (away)/resolve the question inherent. There's no real question inherent. The construct of 'constructs' has to dissolve itself (true nihilism) to find peace.

 

[Azekual]

I think you may have just said the same thing
in different terms.

I'll get back to this one
when I have more time.
GTGFN. *waves*

TTFN
reply to my message next time lol

 

[Azekual]

Sadly, neither do I.

She said (IMO) that we concretize some of our ideas --particularly those about the subject/object divide --so they become a paradigm against which everything has to relate. Things that don't/can't relate get 'shifted' away from the paradigm.

But a shift in paradigm can bring them 'round.

so how does my mindset fit into this system??

 

[Willamena]

What if you have a mindset the emphasizes adaptability and fluidity, even going so far as re-adapting to a situation you're already adapted to just because the environment didn't shift like you expected?
(thats more or less my mindset)

What if there is no concrete "you," just a "set mind" and the illusion of fluidity; what if the fixed moment in time ("now") were actually re-adapted moments in a fixed time. Would you still expect it to be the environment that shifts?

 

[Azekual]

What if there is no concrete "you," just a "set mind" and the illusion of fluidity; what if the fixed moment in time ("now") were actually re-adapted moments in a fixed time. Would you still expect it to be the environment that shifts?

So my perception of what inhabits the environment is what shifts?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

So my perception of what inhabits the environment is what shifts?

Along with everything else. There is nothing separating your mind from the causality of the universe. You are nature.

 

[Azekual]

Along with everything else. There is nothing separating your mind from the causality of the universe. You are nature.

Thus, if I so desired and knew how, I could deconstruct the universe?

 

[Yanni]

Is there a reason I shouldn't be referring to such "pagan" concepts?
I'm pretty laid back with my faith, and don't take it too seriously. I am comfortable enough in my religion to discuss the abstract concepts of Greco-Roman gods and their egos and not be anal-retentive about it.
I've even gone so far as to study Wicca and other pagan religions in-depth and have developed a large circle of friends involved in the craft.

All I'm trying to say is that the trinity concept in Christianity is a purely pagan concept; it has no scriptural basis whatsoever in Judaism, the religion that Christianity is based on.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Thus, if I so desired and knew how, I could deconstruct the universe?

...what?

Kind of what chemists, biologists, physicists, philosophers, and such have been doing...

 

[Willamena]

Thus, if I so desired and knew how, I could deconstruct the universe?

Or yourself.

I like the analogy of the camera, the movie-maker. Each moment is like a single frame on the reel, a "take" of the world around us, fixed in memory and replayed after the fact. The illusion of movement created by the takes as they "flip by" is a recreation of an "actual objective world" around us. For the audience watching the movie each take is different and unique, even if the only significant difference is that the little time-code at the bottom of the screen has incremented.

Let's say, in a Descartian way, that there is a fixed observation point that exists in the world, and from which awareness of the world around it can truly be called "mine." In the movie-maker analogy, then, there is also necessarily a fixed memory or series of images, something (some harware, like the reel or a brain) to store it on, and some way to power the apparent changes in each take that lead to an apparent progression in the images recorded (an objective world actually moving).

That's one way of looking at it...

I'm just saying that a shift in paradigm would be a rewrite of the model, like this one created by the movie-maker analogy, the camera construct. The analogy relies on certain fixed ideas --poke a hole in those, and the construct dissolves. It's not about destroying the world (although I know what you're thinking, Pinky). The house of cards can fall down, and that the world remains is a sure sign that it was just a house of cards.

 

[Azekual]

...what?

Kind of what chemists, biologists, physicists, philosophers, and such have been doing...

Sorry, I should have made it clear that I was incorporating that into relativism and taking it to the extreme to make you, and hopefully others laugh

 

[bushidogrendel]

Who are Mr. SARUTAM CURU and Dr. PULICA FRANARU,?

Mr. SARUTAM CURU and Dr. PULICA FRANARU are highly educated intellectuals..., now i ask you.. who are you?? and who is sojourner?

and who gave them any more authority to state these things than the drunk homeless guy down the street?

professor BULA SI STRULA gave them authority... now i ask you, who gave you and sojourner any more authority to state your things than the drunk homeless guy down the street?

 

[Erebus]

if the supernatural does exist. what's with all the secrecy? out of all of the gods "known" to man throughout history, not a single one has made his actual existence known. never did a sky daddy come down to show himself to everyone... why?? why does god not make his existence known, and then let everyone decide whether or not they would like to worship him for eternity??? why turn it into a silly game of hide and seek, where only some humans claim that the gods have revealed themselves to them, while others are left in the dark....... why not just make his existence known and let us make the decision whether or not to follow him.... we will still have free will of course....

Read as many books on the subject as you can get hold of. Look for different viewpoints, different religions and different methods, don't just look at the most popular, obvious or easily refuted god concepts.
Perform invocations, create sigils in your own blood, push your body and mind, sell your soul, sleep overnight in a cemetery. Work hard in your search.
Don't imagine that the gods are interested in you, don't think that they want your worship, don't believe that they'll look for you and most importantly don't imagine that they give a damn what you think.

If you aren't marked by the gods, don't expect it to be easy to find them and don't presume it matters to them if you do. That's my opinion on the matter. If you want to find a god, good luck to you, but don't expect it to be easy.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Sorry, I should have made it clear that I was incorporating that into relativism and taking it to the extreme to make you, and hopefully others laugh

It would have been funny had not I met people who actually believe that...

 

[Quagmire]

Mr. SARUTAM CURU and Dr. PULICA FRANARU are highly educated intellectuals..., now i ask you.. who are you?? and who is sojourner?




professor BULA SI STRULA gave them authority... now i ask you, who gave you and sojourner any more authority to state your things than the drunk homeless guy down the street?

Funny, I googled all three of those names and nothing came up.

Sounds like a lot of BULA to me.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Mr. SARUTAM CURU and Dr. PULICA FRANARU are highly educated intellectuals..., now i ask you.. who are you?? and who is sojourner?


professor BULA SI STRULA gave them authority... now i ask you, who gave you and sojourner any more authority to state your things than the drunk homeless guy down the street?

Who gave professor Bula si strula his authority?

I quote the living Prophets, who trace their authority back to Joseph Smith Jr. who received his authority from the Apostles Peter James and John who received their authority from Jesus Christ.

The authority of men is nothing compared to the authority of God.

 

[bushidogrendel]

Who gave professor Bula si strula his authority?

I quote the living Prophets, who trace their authority back to Joseph Smith Jr. who received his authority from the Apostles Peter James and John who received their authority from Jesus Christ.

The authority of men is nothing compared to the authority of God.

thank you, this is my point exactly...... all those names i made up add no more credibility to my claims than all of your names add to yours...

i quote DR. QIMLIWN who traces his authority back to the great WIMLH AMKWI, who received his authority from the Apostles Peter James and John who received their authority from Jesus Christ.

you have no more proof that joseph smith received his authority from the Apostles than i have proof that WIMLH AMKWI, received his authority from the Apostles.

what is that you say? the book of mormon? you mean the book riddled with apparent racism?

the living prophets?? those same prophets who not too long ago claimed they all received divine enlightenment from god that BLACKS should be banned from attaining priesthood in the mormon church, only to later admit they were wrong/misguided? NO CREDIBILITY WHATSOEVER. dont make me bring up good ol' racist, 55wife polygamist former big daddy LDS president brigham young....

 

[outhouse]

if the supernatural does exist. what's with all the secrecy? out of all of the gods "known" to man throughout history, not a single one has made his actual existence known. never did a sky daddy come down to show himself to everyone... why?? why does god not make his existence known, and then let everyone decide whether or not they would like to worship him for eternity??? why turn it into a silly game of hide and seek, where only some humans claim that the gods have revealed themselves to them, while others are left in the dark....... why not just make his existence known and let us make the decision whether or not to follow him.... we will still have free will of course....

bear with me, i have a thought on this.


man has always created his deitie's

this is not in dispute by anyone with a decent education in history

All deities created match the culture that created them.


IF they didnt created them as hidden and powerfull, they would be powerless and not worth worshipping.

End of story

 

[outhouse]

I might as well add, thats why there wil never be any evidence other then percieved for any deity.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

thank you, this is my point exactly...... all those names i made up add no more credibility to my claims than all of your names add to yours...

i quote DR. QIMLIWN who traces his authority back to the great WIMLH AMKWI, who received his authority from the Apostles Peter James and John who received their authority from Jesus Christ.

you have no more proof that joseph smith received his authority from the Apostles than i have proof that WIMLH AMKWI, received his authority from the Apostles.

what is that you say? the book of mormon? you mean the book riddled with apparent racism?

the living prophets?? those same prophets who not too long ago claimed they all received divine enlightenment from god that BLACKS should be banned from attaining priesthood in the mormon church, only to later admit they were wrong/misguided? NO CREDIBILITY WHATSOEVER. dont make me bring up good ol' racist, 55wife polygamist former big daddy LDS president brigham young....

You can say what you like, but the truth is the truth, no ifs ands or buts.
I suppose like the does God exist thing. I said a prayer, I got an answer.
"No you didn't" "Yes I did" "No you didn't" "Yes I did"... this conversation isn't going anywhere.