What Trinitarian churches teach about the Trinity

[InChrist]

If Jesus created the world and IS GOD then why IS GOD granting Jesus the rulership over creation?

Was the world NOT a belonging of him who created it?

Did Jesus create the world as an order from someone else … who then granted it to Jesus to rule over?

Surely then, Jesus cannot be God if there was a HIGHER AUTHORITY who commanded him to create it?

But if Jesus IS GOD then ‘No one can snatch it out of my hands’… but it seems you are saying someone else with higher authority did snatch it from him - only to give it back(???!!!! Where is that written to say so?) for Jesus to rule over.

Moreover, the kingdom of the creation is FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR LESS than the kingdom of Heaven.

So if Jesus WAS GOD when he created all things - and was ruler over both Heaven and earth….THEN please explain how Jesus now accepts a FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR LOWER kingdom than the one he previously ruled over!

God of Heaven…. Almighty, eternal, immutable…
Now God of the creation - mighty but not Almighty… NOW IS ETERNAL… MUTATED MANY TIMES…

The Father: God almighty… Spirit ruling an unmeasurable Spirit kingdom —-

Jesus Christ: A Man ruling a fathomable FLESH kingdom ….

Explain?? Please…..

I will respond to your questions and points as soon as I have the opportunity. My grandchildren are visiting today.

 

[Niatero]

Firstborn or first born has nothing at all to do with reincarnation.

I’m not sure what you think you’ve ‘nailed’ since no one has ever believed in what you claimed that Jesus is a reincarnation of anything of anyone……

That’s why I said to start anew thread to discuss it / it DESERVES its OWN THREAD as a topic if you feel that it’s something worth ‘Nailing’!!

Do you wanna do that… and try to get posters here to REPLY to you about it rather than being a complete niche non-entity point that you believe in.

Well actually, as the one who started this thread for the purpose of informing people about what the Trinitarian churches teach about the Trinity, I would say that both of you have hijacked it, debating about your own opinions about it. That’s okay with me though, because I’ve said everything that I wanted to say about what the churches teach.

 

[InChrist]

If Jesus created the world and IS GOD then why IS GOD granting Jesus the rulership over creation?

Was the world NOT a belonging of him who created it?

Did Jesus create the world as an order from someone else … who then granted it to Jesus to rule over?

Surely then, Jesus cannot be God if there was a HIGHER AUTHORITY who commanded him to create it?

But if Jesus IS GOD then ‘No one can snatch it out of my hands’… but it seems you are saying someone else with higher authority did snatch it from him - only to give it back(???!!!! Where is that written to say so?) for Jesus to rule over.

Moreover, the kingdom of the creation is FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR LESS than the kingdom of Heaven.

So if Jesus WAS GOD when he created all things - and was ruler over both Heaven and earth….THEN please explain how Jesus now accepts a FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR LOWER kingdom than the one he previously ruled over!

God of Heaven…. Almighty, eternal, immutable…
Now God of the creation - mighty but not Almighty… NOW IS ETERNAL… MUTATED MANY TIMES…

The Father: God almighty… Spirit ruling an unmeasurable Spirit kingdom —-

Jesus Christ: A Man ruling a fathomable FLESH kingdom ….

Explain?? Please…..

Here is my explanation and perspective…


In the Godhead, as revealed in the scriptures, there is Person of the Father, the Person of the Son, and the Person of the Holy Spirit. All are co-eternal, co-equal and share equal glory, majesty and power. None is before or after another or greater or less than another. The Son is not inferior to the Father… but each have different roles and the Son chooses submit to the Father’s will. Jesus (the Son), the second Person of the Triune Godhead was the One who, although coexistent and co-eternal with the Father, voluntarily submitted Himself to take on human nature. In His meek and humble human existence and position, the Son lived in total obedience to His Father, as stated in
Philippians 2:6-6…

Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death—even death on a cross!


So, while Jesus, the Son has voluntarily chosen to put Himself in a lower position and in complete submission to His Father for the salvation of humanity, that does not make Him lesser than or unequal to His Father.

I do not believe at all He will be receiving or ruling a “lesser kingdom” and I’m not sure what you mean by that. I believe the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are working out and accomplishing their perfect plan in complete unity. As planned, Jesus will literally rule the Millennial Kingdom on earth from Jerusalem in unison with His Father and Holy Spirit and after in the eternal new heaven and earth.

 

[Soapy]

Well actually, as the one who started this thread for the purpose of informing people about what the Trinitarian churches teach about the Trinity, I would say that both of you have hijacked it, debating about your own opinions about it. That’s okay with me though, because I’ve said everything that I wanted to say about what the churches teach.

Actually, you haven’t said anything of any worth which is why others have ‘hijacked’ your thread.

Start again and make a strong point that has merit, and you will find credible (and diabolical) responses.

Respond accordingly to each respondent with your view, correction or refutation, and pose questions which Will illicit further responses from both sets.

This way, you control the thread… you are the director of that thread.

IF and ONLY IF, you feel really aggrieved about ‘hijacking’ then press the ‘Report’ button of the poster and say why you think the specific post is altogether not in keeping with the topic at that point … Threads nearly always invariably go off topic as variations in the thread topic take over.

Perhaps your input wasn’t strong enough to keep your thread on topic!!!

The invasion of ‘Reincarnation’ really is way off topic as it’s not even ‘Christian’. What, explicitly did you find ‘off topic’ in what I said?

 

[Soapy]

Here is my explanation and perspective…


In the Godhead, as revealed in the scriptures, there is Person of the Father, the Person of the Son, and the Person of the Holy Spirit. All are co-eternal, co-equal and share equal glory, majesty and power. None is before or after another or greater or less than another. The Son is not inferior to the Father… but each have different roles and the Son chooses submit to the Father’s will. Jesus (the Son), the second Person of the Triune Godhead was the One who, although coexistent and co-eternal with the Father, voluntarily submitted Himself to take on human nature. In His meek and humble human existence and position, the Son lived in total obedience to His Father, as stated in
Philippians 2:6-6…

Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death—even death on a cross!

A TRUE GOD CANNOT become anything than what He IS. A true God is not changeable - cannot ‘Become’… is IMMUTABLE.

Do you believe that Jesus is IMMUTABLE?
Did Jesus ‘Become’ anything than what he always was:

• ‘I am he who WAS DEAD… BUT is NOW eternally alive!’
• ‘After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.’ (Hebrews 1:3)

Jesus ‘sat down at the right hand of the Majesty’. Who is ‘the Majesty’ that Jesus ‘sat down’ with?

What does it mean to be at someone’s ‘Right hand’? Does it imply EQUALITY?

So, while Jesus, the Son has voluntarily chosen to put Himself in a lower position and in complete submission to His Father for the salvation of humanity, that does not make Him lesser than or unequal to His Father.

Is a Son not ALWAYS in subjection to his Father?

And, how are you saying that ‘Neither is before or after another’ yet you say that the Father is FIRST PERSON of the so-called ‘Godhead’.

How can there be a ‘First, Second, and Third’ person if there is no rank order since all three are CO-EQUAL???

You seem to be redefining the meaning of the word ‘EQUAL’!

I do not believe at all He will be receiving or ruling a “lesser kingdom” and I’m not sure what you mean by that.

Are you suggesting that the Kingdom of Heaven is EQUAL to the kingdom of the creation?

Isn’t the created kingdom world like “a room in the [Mansion] kingdom of the Father”?

I believe the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are working out and accomplishing their perfect plan in complete unity. As planned, Jesus will literally rule the Millennial Kingdom on earth from Jerusalem in unison with His Father and Holy Spirit and after in the eternal new heaven and earth.

Jesus Christ… is working to accomplish the perfect plan OF THE FATHER.

‘The Father has put all things into the hands of the Son’.

You seem to be a bit confused in what the Scriptures says. It is true that Jesus Christ is ruling in his millennial rulership BUT IT IS THE PLAN OF THE FATHER that he should do so.

The Holy Spirit is only AN INSTRUMENT that Jesus uses to accomplish what the Father has planned for him to do.

The Holy Spirit TAKES FROM WHAT JESUS HAS and gives it to the believers. If the Spirit takes from Jesus, how is the Spirit EQUAL to Jesus?

And Jesus is GRANTED what he has from the Father…. How is Jesus EQUAL to the Father?

Do you see that THE ONLY ONE who does not change, neither gains, nor gives away anything AT ALL AT ANY TIME is THE FATHER!

Guess what? The Father says of himself:

• ‘YHWH is my name off all eternity’
• ‘I AM He was, is, and ALWAYS WILL BE’ (Immutable, Eternal, Everlastingly GOD)

I think you should read your Bible a little more closely and stop listening to trinity church fallacy doctrine.

By the way, there is no such word or term as “Godhead” in scriptures. It’s what you have been misled to believe. The trinity had to try to find a way of claiming that God is three. I see what you quoted from a trinity creed above but if is not true at all.

The term, “God-Head”, is purposely MISTRANSLATED for the trinity purpose. The verse it is mistranslated from said that:

• “God was pleased that he [Jesus] SHOULD BE FILLED WITH THE FULLNESS’

This was when Jesus was anointed WITH the Spirit of God at the river Jordan. You know the event well from scriptures… GOD spoke from Heaven in glory saying:

• “THIS is my Son in whom I am WELL PLEASED!!!’

Isaiah 42:1 expresses it more succinctly:

• “Behold MY SERVANT, MY CHOSEN ONE in whom I AM WELL PLEASED! I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT ON HIM and he shall fulfil all my desires’

It is THE SPIRIT OF GOD which GOD was pleased to FILL THE SON with.

Two questions:
1) What do YOU understand by the term, ‘God-Head’?
2) HOW do you believe that Jesus was “Filled with the GOD-HEAD”?

 

[Niatero]

Thank you.

Respond accordingly to each respondent with your view, correction or refutation, and pose questions which Will illicit further responses from both sets.

I'll see if anyone has posted anything about what Trinitarian churches teach, and if so, I'll respond to it.

What, explicitly did you find ‘off topic’ in what I said?

I don't see anything information in it about what Trinitarian churches teach.

 

[Niatero]

Actually, you haven’t said anything of any worth which is why others have ‘hijacked’ your thread.

Yeah, it went off topic on the first page, and stayed off topic. I'm not objecting to it. I said everything that I wanted to say in the first page or two. I'm just thinking that it's illogical for you to criticize someone else for going off topic when you're going off topic yourself.

 

[Soapy]

Thank you.

I'll see if anyone has posted anything about what Trinitarian churches teach, and if so, I'll respond to it.

I don't see anything information in it about what Trinitarian churches teach.

Hi, … I preach almost ENTIRELY about the fallacies of the trinitarian churches…

But here is another chance you’ve missed…. KEEP YOUR THREAD GOING…. Ask me a question back or make a claim or statement about the trinitarian churches that you feel will illicit a response from anyone reading your posts. How does, ‘I try to find something someone said about the trinitarian church’ inspire a response about the trinitarian church?

 

[Soapy]

Yeah, it went off topic on the first page, and stayed off topic. I'm not objecting to it. I said everything that I wanted to say in the first page or two. I'm just thinking that it's illogical for you to criticize someone else for going off topic when you're going off topic yourself.

Re-incarnation is not about Almighty God nor Jesus Christ. What I talk about is totally about the scriptures which is, among and includes, God and Jesus Christ.

Tell me that God and Jesus are not to do with the church … the TRUE CHURCH, that is, that they are not part of a TRINITARIAN church ideology.

Tell me one single thing that the trinitarian church is truthfully correct about that is opposed by the church of the Truth (The Church of which God is the owner, and Jesus Christ is it’s head and the believers are the body, the Spiritual Church!)

 

[Niatero]

Re-incarnation is not about Almighty God nor Jesus Christ. What I talk about is totally about the scriptures which is, among and includes, God and Jesus Christ.

Tell me that God and Jesus are not to do with the church … the TRUE CHURCH, that is, that they are not part of a TRINITARIAN church ideology.

Tell me one single thing that the trinitarian church is truthfully correct about that is opposed by the church of the Truth (The Church of which God is the owner, and Jesus Christ is it’s head and the believers are the body, the Spiritual Church!)

Look, Soapy, I'm not actually complaining about people going off topic. I was just nitpicking. Sorry.

Here's all I want to say now about the Trinity: I think God counts worshipping Jesus and the Holy Spirit as worshipping Him. I also think that the interpersonal relationships we see between them in the gospels are real and not one person talking to himself and about himself. I also think that God tells us not to worship anyone but Him. That looks to me and some other people like saying that God tells us not to worship anyone else but Him, and tells us at the same time that it's okay to worship another person besides Him. I don't see God explaining how all that can be true at the same time, and I've decided not to try any more to find any explanation of my own. I disagree with all the explanations that I've seen, with or without Trinity beliefs, but I don't think that disqualifies anyone from being saved or being a true Christian, and I think it's contrary to the teachings of Jesus to stab and jab at people that way.

(later) I actually do have some thoughts about how that can all be true, not an explanation exactly, but a way of thinking about it that helps me, and might help some other people.

 

[Soapy]

Look, Soapy, I'm not actually complaining about people going off topic. I was just nitpicking. Sorry.

Here's all I want to say now about the Trinity: I think God counts worshipping Jesus and the Holy Spirit as worshipping Him. I also think that the interpersonal relationships we see between them in the gospels are real and not one person talking to himself and about himself. I also think that God tells us not to worship anyone but Him. That looks to me and some other people like saying that God tells us not to worship anyone else but Him, and tells us at the same time that it's okay to worship another person besides Him. I don't see God explaining how all that can be true at the same time, and I've decided not to try any more to find any explanation of my own. I disagree with all the explanations that I've seen, with or without Trinity beliefs, but I don't think that disqualifies anyone from being saved or being a true Christian, and I think it's contrary to the teachings of Jesus to stab and jab at people that way.

(later) I actually do have some thoughts about how that can all be true, not an explanation exactly, but a way of thinking about it that helps me, and might help some other people.

Hmmm… I think you are struggling with what you do believe set against what you have read or been taught … against what you see as contrary ideology of trinity.

You say that believe that GOD regards people worshipping Jesus Christ and the Spirit of God as worshipping Him.

Can I ask you where you derive that belief from?

I’ll show you somethings:

1. Jesus Christ is a man, a human Being
2. The Spirit of God (wrongly called ‘The Holy Spirit, and the Holy Ghost… there is no such thing as a Ghost, it’s medieval mythology… none Christian!!)
3. There is not a single instance of a Jew WORSHIPPING Jesus Christ nor would Jesus Christ allow such an act towards him. He says plainly to the great tempter: “Worship God, and only to give give sacred service”
4. There is absolutely not even a suggestion of anyone ever WORSHIPPING the Spirit of God…. Ask for yourself … no one does this … Except PAGAN-Like churches purporting to be Christian who CLAIM they PRAY to the Spirit of God (Praying to someone IS NOT WORSHIP!!)
5. Trinitarians (likely HELLENIST JEWS… read up on who and what is Hellenists and Hellenist m) who translated the NEW TESTAMENT purposely MISTRANSLATED the term for ‘Bowed Down to’ as ‘Worshipped’ so as to claim that people offered worship to Jesus Christ. In truth, the term is ‘OBEISANCE’. It’s not as glamorous a word ‘Worship’ but it does properly translate as ‘Bowed down to’. As a proof, imagine the disciples WORSHIPPING Jesus Christ (it doesn’t even read as that if you consider what WORSHIP entails (see no. 6) on meeting him in open focus. THE JEWS WOULD BE WITNESSING THIS…. What do you think? They know and hold to WORSHIP GOD ONLY… And, they were seeking ways to arrest Jesus and his disciples — So, why is there no mention of them taking actions against a BLASPHEMOUS ACT of worshipping someone who is not God? Answer, because showing OBEISANCE is not worship and is carried out to ANYONE of high authority in a context of showing a reverence to that higher authority: A king, a Lord, a Judge, a High Priest; a Master, a Father… none are considered to be worshipped but only ‘shown reverence’ for their high position.
6. Worship INVOLVES SACRIFICE… Yes, there is praise, there is Glorifying, yes, there is honouring such a person… but these ARE NOT WORSHIPFUL ACTS in themselves - we all do such things to our children, our peers, our seniors, our authorities, our heroes, our great athletes… BUT WHERE IS THE SACRIFICE??? When worshipping God we OFFER ourselves to him .. we make a promise (which we often break!!!!) to SERVE HIM… Jesus Christ NEVER requested anyone to serve him… in fact he came to serve us!!!! GOD SERVES NO ONE!!!

That’s just a small set of things for you to think about. Let me know what you think.

 

[Niatero]

You say that believe that GOD regards people worshipping Jesus Christ and the Spirit of God as worshipping Him.

Can I ask you where you derive that belief from?

Okay, I’ll put it a different way. Some things that Jesus teaches us to do that look like worshipping Jesus as a god, to other people sometimes, are actually worshipping God by showing devotion to His Son.

 

[Soapy]

Okay, I’ll put it a different way. Some things that Jesus teaches us to do that look like worshipping Jesus as a god, to other people sometimes, are actually worshipping God by showing devotion to His Son.

No.., no no no…!!!

WORSHIP is a one-to-one affair.

You CANNOT worship God THROUGH another entity.

You CAN … GLORIFY, PRAISE, HONOUR… God through GLORIFYING, PRAISING, HONOURING Jesus Christ… but you CANNOT WORSHIP God through glorifying, honouring and/or praising Jesus Christ!

What you are trying to do is to turn the LESSER into the GREATER: turn glorifying, honouring, and praising, into WORSHIPPING….
Do you not see what I showed you about the disciples praising, honouring, and glorifying Jesus Christ BUT NOT WORSHIPPING him… It’s exactly what I showed you that the Trinitarians did with the scriptures.

Look at the moment when Bathsheba “WORSHIPPED” king David… really? She bowed down at his bedside in honour of him in his illness of old age. WAS THAT ACTUALLY WORSHIP? No trinitarian called it so yet it’s effectively the same word (Hebrew to Greek) and the act is the same… how many people ‘Bowed down to kings…?’ Was that worship…

I see you trying desperately to justify a fallacy even as you are shown the truth. When you finally ‘bow down’ to the truth ..then You will realise the greatness that truth brings to you through the Scriptures.

 

[Niatero]

No.., no no no…!!!

WORSHIP is a one-to-one affair.

You CANNOT worship God THROUGH another entity.

You CAN … GLORIFY, PRAISE, HONOUR… God through GLORIFYING, PRAISING, HONOURING Jesus Christ… but you CANNOT WORSHIP God through glorifying, honouring and/or praising Jesus Christ!

What you are trying to do is to turn the LESSER into the GREATER: turn glorifying, honouring, and praising, into WORSHIPPING….
Do you not see what I showed you about the disciples praising, honouring, and glorifying Jesus Christ BUT NOT WORSHIPPING him… It’s exactly what I showed you that the Trinitarians did with the scriptures.

Look at the moment when Bathsheba “WORSHIPPED” king David… really? She bowed down at his bedside in honour of him in his illness of old age. WAS THAT ACTUALLY WORSHIP? No trinitarian called it so yet it’s effectively the same word (Hebrew to Greek) and the act is the same… how many people ‘Bowed down to kings…?’ Was that worship…

I see you trying desperately to justify a fallacy even as you are shown the truth. When you finally ‘bow down’ to the truth ..then You will realise the greatness that truth brings to you through the Scriptures.

Okay, so maybe isn’t worship at all.

 

[Soapy]

Okay, so maybe isn’t worship at all.

In conversation or debate with Trinitarians you will come across verses in the book of Revelation where both GOD AND Jesus CHRIST are Praised, Glorified, and Honoured.

The trinitarian then claims then that when “He who sat on the throne’ is given WORSHIP it means both God and Jesus… (saying that it is JESUS CHRIST who is ‘He who sat on the throne’)

But it’s clear that Jesus Christ is ‘STANDING in front, and in the centre, OF the throne. So it is the FATHER who is ‘Sat on the throne’ and who is given WORSHIP.

The twelve kings removed their crowns from their heads and cast them before “He who sat on the throne”. They did not cast them before Jesus Christ, the lamb looking as though slaughtered who is standing AMONG THE ELDERS (human Beings!). The kings casting their crowns IS A SACRIFICE OF THEIR POWER and AUTHORITY AS KINGS - A submission (Know your scriptures: A defeated king would do this and then BOW DOWN in front of his defeater king and offer his head for that king to rest his foot on if the defeater wants him alive, or cut off his head elsewise.)

Note again… GLORIFY, PRAISE, HONOUR to them BOTH… BUT WORSHIP ONLY TO GOD!!

Now you are aware of the truth, please look back over everything you though before and see that this truth FITS ADMIRABLY and without duplicity.

 

[Niatero]

Okay, when I'm talking to you about it, I won't call it "worship."

I'm interested in your answer to this question: Christians: What does Jesus mean by worshipping God "in spirit and in truth"?

 

[Niatero]

Now you are aware of the truth, please look back over everything you though before and see that this truth FITS ADMIRABLY and without duplicity.

I'm still in the process of revising and probably always will be. Here are some of my current thoughts:
- Trinity doctrines have mostly only ever been used to draw lines between Christianity and other religions, and between churches that want to be part of the mainstream and ones that don't. Multitudes of Christians in the mainstream churches don't actually believe all of it, and the churches aren't trying seriously to do anything about that.
- What the Bible says that looks like deifying Jesus is mostly only for Jews to be able to recognize and accept Him as their Lord. They were misused later by Christian leaders competing for control over the human and material resources of Christianity. That's how we got the Trinity doctrines.
- The personal interactions that we see in the gospels between God and Jesus are real, and not just God talking to Himself.

(later) Now I'll be thinking of possible objections from you and from people promoting their customized Trinity beliefs, and what else I might want to say or to change in my view.

I'm thinking that the debating is mostly around people insisting on one side that Jesus is God, and on the other side that He is not. I'm also thinking that saying that He is God is mostly because sometimes people think that believing that is a requirement for salvation. Before this I thought I could agree with saying that Jesus is God, but that was only because that means something different to me from what it means to people clamorously promoting their Trinity beliefs.

 

[Soapy]

I'm still in the process of revising and probably always will be. Here are some of my current thoughts:
- Trinity doctrines have mostly only ever been used to draw lines between Christianity and other religions, and between churches that want to be part of the mainstream and ones that don't. Multitudes of Christians in the mainstream churches don't actually believe all of it, and the churches aren't trying seriously to do anything about that.

That is true in the main, as you say. But it also divided those who believe THE TRUTH of God and Christ from those who desire to believe THE LIE that is plain and obvious that God is three which was not the case by the first Creed which did not include the Spirit of God. The truth does not change… trinity creeds have changed and trinity belief has changed MANY MANY TIMES in its history since it must in order to fill up the holes that were and still are found in its fallacious and ideological doctrine. If trinity were true then there would not have been any changes since the truth would have been told from the start (‘God tells it from the start so no one may say they said it first!’)

- What the Bible says that looks like deifying Jesus is mostly only for Jews to be able to recognize and accept Him as their Lord. They were misused later by Christian leaders competing for control over the human and material resources of Christianity. That's how we got the Trinity doctrines.

Desire to deify Jesus is devil work: Satan failed to seat himself as the ruler over creation and is angry since he knows that the Messiah, a Son of Man, is the destined ruler of creation. Satan knows that if he can turn the head of man to WORSHIP Jesus then THAT will set Jesus AS GOD (just as Trinitarians are saying now!) BUT THAT WILL MAKE JESUS FAIL in what God (YHWH, The Father) set Jesus to do (‘I have come to do the work my Father set me to do’, and ‘Father, it is done, I have given them the word you gave me to give to them and they have believed it!’). All this is not hard to imagine: An emissary is taught by a great king what to say and do to the kings people who are desiring word from the king in a far off country. The emissary brings THE WORD of the king to the people (He is THE WORD OF THE KING…!!!! do you see how that works? Because he says what the king says exactly, he is AS GOOD AS THE KING HIMSELF Speaking!!) BUT because the emissary speaks and does everything the king taught him to say and do the people START SAYING THAT HE IS THE KING!!!… What do you think the king should think if his emissary should ACCEPT THE ACCOLADE from the people and WORSHIP HIM AS THE KING (‘I do not accept praise from men. My Father in Heaven is the one who glorifies me’) The king has promised that if his emissary succeeds in the quest set to him then there will be glory awaiting him… in fact, he will be set as the ruler over that country - after HE HAS SUCCEEDED.
Now, here is the twist: There is a STEWARD who is currently ruler over that country (Do you understand what a Steward is/does? He sits IN PLACE OF THE RULER —Until the true ruler takes his seat… whence the steward is no longer required… Who do you think that STEWARD IS? Yes, Satan…. (‘Woe to the world since the ruler of this world has come into his kingdom and is exceedingly angry since he knows his time is short’) Yes, Satan is unseated and sees that Jesus Christ is ready to usurp him - He desires to TAKE AS MANY OF GOD’s PEOPLE with him into eternal destruction as he can by misleading them in who Jesus Christ is.
Now here is a situation: NOT ALL WHO ARE MISLED are doomed… THOSE WHO ARE INNOCENTLY misled will be saved BUT THOSE WHO ARE WILLINGLY MISLED (Staunch Advocator, congregational leaders and teachers, deviants: The wicked ones: ‘You are Sons of your father, the devil. You seek to do HIS the works. He was a liar from the beginning.’ Here we have a defining toon of ‘Son’: ‘He who does the works of his ‘Father’. Apply that to Jesus and you will see HOW Jesus is says to be ‘The Son of God’. Can you do that?(‘I said only that God is my Father… IF I AM NOT DOING HIS WORKS then do not believe me!’)

- The personal interactions that we see in the gospels between God and Jesus are real, and not just God talking to Himself.

It’s a minor nonsense brought about by softline argumenters as it is clear that in whatever sense, Jesus is not the Father nor is it that ‘God’ is Speaking ‘To God’… Trinitarians cannot see the false logic (they don’t want to admit it and desperately try to design ways out of accepting it!). The main problem is that Trinitarians do not speak of the opposing arguments of their beliefs. They will say: ‘God said to Jesus …xyz!’ and think nothing of the how that makes no reality of sense. But if you point it out to them they will go crazy saying you misinterpret their words: You are the bad guy, the one speaking falsely??!!!!

(later) Now I'll be thinking of possible objections from you and from people promoting their customized Trinity beliefs, and what else I might want to say or to change in my view.

Objections to what…

I'm thinking that the debating is mostly around people insisting on one side that Jesus is God, and on the other side that He is not. I'm also thinking that saying that He is God is mostly because sometimes people think that believing that is a requirement for salvation. Before this I thought I could agree with saying that Jesus is God, but that was only because that means something different to me from what it means to people clamorously promoting their Trinity beliefs.

What do you understand about ‘He who is God’?
What does it mean to be God?
There are GODS, and there is ONE TRUE GOD… His do you distinguish the two statements.
Do you know that the term ‘God’ is a SUPERLATIVE ADJECTIVE as well as an ADVERB. Can you demonstrate by example the two? Know this for sure: ‘GOD’ is NOT A NAME… it is a TITLE like ‘SIR, MASTER, JUDGE, KING, MAJESTY..’. A title can belong to many different entities: a NAME, by its first appointment belongs to ONLY ONE ENTITY.

 

[Niatero]

Because he says what the king says exactly, he is AS GOOD AS THE KING HIMSELF Speaking!!

Yes, that's how I see it.

 

[Soapy]

Yes, that's how I see it.

I’ve added a bit more to the end of previous my post with some questions for you!