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What will Christians and Muslims have to say

Comicaze247

See the previous line
Secondly, we know that people are not born homosexual but rather it is an impact the society and environment has upon a person.
Do we know that?

Gay Men, Straight Women Have Similar Brains

National Geographic said:
The latest findings "make it very hard to argue that these differences are a product of learning or environmental influences."
But it doesn't necessarily follow that a person's sexuality is determined at birth, Witelson cautioned.
"Sexual orientation has a large genetic component, but that doesn't mean environment is a hundred percent irrelevant," she said.
"For example, heterosexual men in prison [may] engage in homosexual behavior, but that doesn't mean that they are homosexual because, given a choice, they choose the opposite sex."
Common sense will tell you that if someone hangs around with certain type of people then they are likely to become similar to those people, or at least adapt certain characteristics of those group of people.
I hang out with a lot of girls on a regular basis (all my buddies live far away now). I'm not gay yet. Give it time, I suppose?

For example, if one hangs around with drug addicts and accompanies them then that person is also likely to take drugs or even become an addict himself.
Yes, and drugs = sexual preference, right?

If scientists find a gene for rape and prove to the world that there are some babies who are genetically born to become rapists. If those babies then grew up, became adults and then raped someone, would you then say that's fine, don't punish them since they had the genes anyway?
Apples and oranges. Rape = a crime. And by the general religious argument that even if one is predisposed to become homosexual that they can control their "sinful" urges, the same could apply to rape. Therefore, rapists are still responsible for their actions whether or not they are genetically predisposed to do so.

Tolerance to gays and lesbians in a society can encourage the people in that society not to marry.
So . . . because Ben and Jerry are together and everybody is okay with it, I won't marry the woman of my dreams? :areyoucra

This leads to sexual affairs and family affairs.
So . . . because Pen and Teller are together and everybody is okay with it, I will start to cheat on my girlfriend? :areyoucra

There is right and wrong. I didn't deny that fact.
Who says it's a fact? The fact that right and wrong differ from place to place is indicative of perspective being what determines "right" from "wrong."
 

Peace

Quran & Sunnah
Muslims and some non-Muslims too.


I am not aware if they are looking for such a gene, but if they are then that could be due to certain reasons such as medical experimentation for better understanding of the human genetic system.


Well, I would not like my son or daughter to be homosexual since that goes against the nature of humanity.

God made the living creatures in pairs, for example:

  • a male plant and a female plant.
  • a cow and a bull
  • a tiger and a tigress
Have you ever seen a bull having sex with another bull?

Even animals have not gone so low.

Great posts brother :clap: keep them coming :)
 

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
Great posts brother :clap: keep them coming :)

Dude. Have you read any of the rebuttals of his posts? His positions have been completely discredited.

Homosexuality does occur in nature. There was a very famous male-male penguin couple at Central Park Zoo:

Roy and Silo, two chinstrap penguins at the Central Park Zoo in Manhattan, are completely devoted to each other. For nearly six years now, they have been inseparable. They exhibit what in penguin parlance is called "ecstatic behavior": That is, they entwine their necks, they vocalize to each other, they have sex. Silo and Roy are, to anthropomorphize a bit, gay penguins.
To rebut the claim that it happened just because there weren't enough females around:
When offered female companionship, they have adamantly refused it. And the females aren't interested in them, either.
And to show that, in nature, a gay couple can raise "children":
At one time, the two seemed so desperate to incubate an egg together that they put a rock in their nest and sat on it, keeping it warm in the folds of their abdomens, said their chief keeper, Rob Gramzay. Finally, he gave them a fertile egg that needed care to hatch. Things went perfectly, and a chick, Tango, was born. For the next 2 1/2 months they raised Tango, keeping her warm and feeding her food from their beaks until she could go out into the world on her own. Gramzay is full of praise. "They did a great job," he said.

Please, read the rest of the article: Gay Penguins

iloveislam said:
Firstly, you are asking a hypothetical question.

If it [genetic basis for homosexuality] happens then we will discuss it.
(my insert in brackets, for clarity]
Unfortunately for you, there is already strong proof there is a genetic basis for homosexuality.
A transplant of a single gene in fruitflies created homosexual male flies-- Here

"While sexual behaviour may be chosen, the preponderance of researchers say attraction is dictated by biology, with no demonstrated contribution from social factors such as parenting or other factors after birth."
"A host of studies since the mid-1990s have found common biological traits between gay men, including left-handedness and the direction of hair whorls. The likelihood that if one identical twin is gay, the other will be also be gay is much higher than the "concordance" of homosexuality between fraternal twins, indicating that genes play a role in sexual orientation, but are not the entire cause."
-- This article is interesting

"Dr. Alan Sanders of Evanston Northwestern Healthcare Research Institute, the lead researcher of the new study, said he suspects there isn’t one so-called “gay gene.”
It is more likely there are several genes that interact with nongenetic factors, including psychological and social influences, to determine sexual orientation, said Sanders, a psychiatrist." --This quote probably demonstrates the most widely held opinion in the scientific community today. The study is still in the works, but the article Here has more information regarding the likely link between genetics and homosexuality.

iloveislam said:
Common sense will tell you that if someone hangs around with certain type of people then they are likely to become similar to those people, or at least adapt certain characteristics of those group of people.
My housemates consist of two lesbians (they are a couple) and a gay man. I am heterosexual, and in a long-term relationship.
If you are unwilling to believe this anecdotal evidence:
"From advertisements in gay publications, 55 gay or bisexual men were recruited who reported on 82 sons at least 17 years of age. More than 90% of sons whose sexual orientations could be rated were heterosexual. "
"Results suggest that any environmental influence of gay fathers on their sons' sexual orientation is not large." --Here is a synopsis of a variety of studies involving homosexual parents raising children.
I would think think that if hanging out with gay people makes you gay, than a lot more of these children would be turning out gay.
Incidentally, it appears, according to this articles, that children of gay parents do not appear to be any different than children of heterosexual parents, with the exception that they tend to be more tolerant of gay people. Big surprise!

iloveislam said:
Tolerance to gays and lesbians in a society can encourage the people in that society not to marry.

This leads to sexual affairs and family affairs.
You have yet to provide one shred of proof for this statement. I must assume the only support you have for it is your desire to demonize homosexuals.
 

challupa

Well-Known Member
People who don't understand homosexuality because of their religion are fearful of changing their opinion because it would bring the wrath of god down on them. That is one of the reasons why religion in it's fanatic form is so dangerous for the survival of humanity and our ability to be humane.
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
Engaging in a sexual act is a choice.
If it was proven that genes determine being gay, this wouldn't mean homosexual acts are natural but it would mean we should help homosexual people to live a natural life (i.e. search for a treatment).
 
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Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Engaging in a sexual act is a choice.
If it was proven that genes determine being gay, this doesn't mean homosexual acts are natural but it means we should help homosexual people to live a natural life (i.e. search for a treatment).

Religion isn't "natural", either, and is far more unhealthy and destructive than homosexuality. Perhaps believers are in need of treatment, too?
 

Judgment

Active Member
Engaging in a sexual act is a choice.
If it was proven that genes determine being gay, this wouldn't mean homosexual acts are natural but it would mean we should help homosexual people to live a natural life (i.e. search for a treatment).

If this 'treatment' was refused - then - What should the punishment be for homosexuals that refuse to listen to Allah?
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
Engaging in a sexual act is a choice.

But falling in love isn't. The natural physical way to express that deep love is through intimate relations. So you are basically saying that homosexuals shouldn't love. Is that about right? That all these people, because of the way they are born, should not love anyone. And if they do happen to fall in love they should ignore those feelings so as not to be tempted to express them through making love. In other words...because of the way someone is born you feel that they should be miserable for their entire lives. Wow, I guess that might work to your cause though. For if you were actually able to implement such a thing could you imagine the skyrocking rates of suicides among homosexual people? I guess torturing them by denying them love to the point of them killing themselves off saves you from having to do the dirty deed yourself huh?
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
If it was proven that genes determine being gay, this wouldn't mean homosexual acts are natural but it would mean we should help homosexual people to live a natural life (i.e. search for a treatment).

Please define "natural life" so we can be sure to "treat" anyone who doesn't follow that exact definition.

Oh, and btw, if someone is born homosexual then homosexual acts WOULD be what was "natural" to them. In fact, that's exactly what it would mean. :areyoucra
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
But falling in love isn't. The natural physical way to express that deep love is through intimate relations. So you are basically saying that homosexuals shouldn't love. Is that about right? That all these people, because of the way they are born, should not love anyone. And if they do happen to fall in love they should ignore those feelings so as not to be tempted to express them through making love. In other words...because of the way someone is born you feel that they should be miserable for their entire lives. Wow, I guess that might work to your cause though. For if you were actually able to implement such a thing could you imagine the skyrocking rates of suicides among homosexual people? I guess torturing them by denying them love to the point of them killing themselves off saves you from having to do the dirty deed yourself huh?
Maybe falling in love isn't but sexual act is. Falling in love doesn't justify our wrong acts or behavior.
The intimate sexual relationships follow many other considerations (to the Muslim at least). And not all people have sex because of "love".
That all these people, because of the way they are born
If homosexuality was genetic then it could mean that the other sexual pathologies are genetic too but this is not an excuse to engage in a pathological sexual relation.
Some homosexuals indeed can change their sexual orientation and behavior, so we can't simply say "the way they are born".
I don't want to see anyone "miserable or "suicidal" but I want to help people to live a healthy life, in all aspects.
 
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Draka

Wonder Woman
Maybe falling in love isn't but sexual act is. Falling in love doesn't justify our wrong acts or behavior.
The intimate sexual relationships follow many other considerations (to the Muslim at least). And not all people have sex because of "love".
Not all people have sex because of love, that is true. There are plenty of piggish men that cheat on their wives with prostitutes and whores. Does that make heterosexuality wrong?

Just because some people have sex not for love doesn't mean that the majority of people do have sex because they are in love with the person they are having sex with. It is the "natural" way to express that love. How is making love to your husband, the man you love, wrong? How is Joe making love to his husband, the man he loves, wrong?

If homosexuality was genetic then it could mean that the other sexual pathologies are genetic too but this is not an excuse to engage in a pathological sexual relation.
Some homosexuals indeed can change their sexual orientation and behavior, so we can't simply say "the way they are born".
I don't want to see anyone "miserable or "suicidal" but I want to help people to live a healthy life, in all aspects.

Complete BS. One doesn't change their sexual orientation...one can deny it, disguise it, hide it, even lie about it, but it does not change. One may be able to force themselves to live a certain way, but that doesn't mean that who they truly are or who they truly are attracted to or love ever really changes. It just means that they deny themselves. And is that really a healthy thing to do?

And I'm sorry to inform you, but if you don't want homosexual people to be able to express their love for each other then you DO want to see them miserable. You want them to "live a healthy life" by your standards and definitions...that isn't really caring about someone at all.

I'm still waiting on a definition of a "natural life" from you you know.
 

Judgment

Active Member
If this 'treatment' was refused - then - What should the punishment be for homosexuals that refuse to listen to Allah?

Muslims refuse to answer the question - because - the answer is 'Death' of course.

Accepting a set of beliefs uncritically - Thought control - "Do not question 'one word' of Allah or his prophets or you will face a painful doom". Followers believe Prophet Muhammad to be ‘Perfect’ and Islam to be infallible. - So.. As a last resort in their eyes - death - to homosexuals is the only answer there is. ..
 

challupa

Well-Known Member
Maybe falling in love isn't but sexual act is. Falling in love doesn't justify our wrong acts or behavior.
The intimate sexual relationships follow many other considerations (to the Muslim at least). And not all people have sex because of "love".
If homosexuality was genetic then it could mean that the other sexual pathologies are genetic too but this is not an excuse to engage in a pathological sexual relation.
Some homosexuals indeed can change their sexual orientation and behavior, so we can't simply say "the way they are born".
I don't want to see anyone "miserable or "suicidal" but I want to help people to live a healthy life, in all aspects.
Okay lets put this another way. You are a woman according to your profile. So you being born a woman you are attracted to men as a sexual partner. Now lets say you are born a woman but you just happen to have a man's body. You would still be attracted to men because you are a woman. If god didn't think this was natural h/she would never have allowed it to happen in the first place. Also, how do you explain babies who god allowed to be born with both genitalia? Also, in your great wisdom, what sex would you choose them to be?
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
Engaging in a sexual act is a choice.
If it was proven that genes determine being gay, this wouldn't mean homosexual acts are natural but it would mean we should help homosexual people to live a natural life (i.e. search for a treatment).

Discounting your 11th century fairy tale whats wrong with homosexuality? If people are born gay they stay gay. Its not like they're going to marry a woman, so they might as well be with someone they love. Even if they do try and be a hetrosexual it probably doesnt work.
 

neves

Active Member
Funny..every time I try to bring a scientific argument into religion I am told that science can not be compatible with the spiritual..now that it's convenient you use science...
If the answer to this one is to reproduce, and if we look at the state of the planet due to over population, people starving, not everyone having clean water to drink, the use of pesticides and fertilisers to artificially induce crops in order to feed the hordes, then it's not a very sound argument, considering all of the damage that reproduction on this scale does.

This is just so ridiculous it almost defies a response. How could tolerance of gays and lesbians lead to other people not marrying?

First, don't assume I use science when it is convenient for me( there are religious people who are not against science) second, your other point is kinda meaningless as the people on earth can be fed and maintained perfectly fine if there was not parts of this world that horde and waste resources...
 
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