What would an Islamic Germany look like?

[Revoltingest]

Yes, I was serious but no one said anything about Jews. You're the one who assumed.

I just asked about the most common insurance fraud conspiracy theory.
This is pretty typical....
http://realitieswatch.com/larry-sil...ths-911-got-4-55-billion-insurance-buildings/

Btw, your link gets the science of structure failure all wrong.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I just asked about the most common insurance fraud conspiracy theory.
Btw, your link gets the science of structure failure all wrong.

Well, maybe you should contact the site creator and tell him?
http://www.isgp.nl/contact

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, maybe you should contact the site creator and tell him?
http://www.isgp.nl/contact

Like they wanna hear from an engineer who shoots holes in their pet paranoia?
I'm big on wasting my time (as all can see here), but that's asking too much.

 

[dust1n]

Both actually.

Well then it doesn't really matter if the papers are right or left because you can't suppress or ignore data that never existed in the first place.

No its not true for any census. But hey good for you.

Sorry, it is true for the American one. We seriously have no idea how many black or Hispanic people live here.

The mobile is for you to be able to call the police. Be careful there are areas in the cities I mentioned where the police simply won't show up.

Scarry..

And quite honestly stop being a smartass.

Consider taking your own advice sometime, and maybe others will.

It's not my fault that you will be harassed or beaten if you wear a Kippah. Which is also why we(aka the Jews living in Germany) are generally reminded that we probably shouldn't show that we are Jewish when we go out). But this is probably also not happening.
Perhaps my entire life is a lie.

I'm aware of the harassment. I'd still take it for a free trip to Germany. I don't question the existence of it.

Really? That's your answer when you actually get a source? Oh my.

Well, I had said, "I'm not sure why the German Office of Statistics would have political motivation to represent the demographics of Germany, but whatever.'

You said, "The same reason why there are now even cases of Germans being thrown out of their rented apartments to accommodate refugees. (S:http://www.stern.de/wirtschaft/immo...ssen-wegen-eigenbedarf-ausziehen-6465914.html)"

"Okay, the reason being?"

And you said, "The refugees which the city has to care for need a place to live in of course. "

You lead me to believe here that the reason Germans were getting kicked out of the apartments is the same reason why the German Office of Statistics (9 years ago) fudged census records; the reason being "the refugees being a place to live."

So my response of "So the reasoning the Germany office of statistics if politically motivated to misrepresent how many Muslims exist in Germany some 9 years ago when the data is from, was because Syrian refugees need a place to live now?" actually makes sense, since you implied taht the reasoning the German Office of Statistics is politically motivated to misrepresent how many Muslims are in Germany is the same reason Germans have been kicked out of houses.

I must take it when you said, "The same reason why there are now even cases of Germans being thrown out of their rented apartments to accommodate refugees," you didn't mean the two reasons for both things were the same.

Need I remind you, that I'm just trying to clarify what you said to me responding to a post that wasn't even addressed to you?

I quite honestly couldn't care less what you believe as I live here and you don't.

Hey, something we can agree on.

It's also not you who is beaten up for being Jewish by "youths"(which is PC for Muslims) in Frankfurt or Berlin. Good for you.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here?

"Only several dozens of 1,275 attacks in 2013 traced to foreigners; right-wing extremists responsible for 1,218

Amidst fears of radicalization in the Muslim community, recently collected data suggests that 95% of antisemitic attacks in Germany were committed by right-wing extremists. According to figures presented last week to the German parliament, out of 1,275 incidents which occurred in 2013, neo-Nazis were considered responsible for 1,218 of them. "

These figures were presented by the government in response to questions from leading Green party MP's. “I was a bit astonished to receive these results,” admitted Volker Beck, one of the MP's. “The feeling in the Jewish community, as well as my feeling, was that there were more Muslim antisemitic attacks, but the statistics doesn't support that. This just proves that we need to research the issue more and to get a better assessment of what threatens the security of Jewish people and Jewish institutions in Germany.”

http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/inter...-german-jews-far-outnumber-those-by-islamists

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I was busy at the moment.

The Nazis only called themselves that because they were trying to trick followers of the leftist German political parties of the '20s into joining them. The Nazis did have a more socialist wing but that was destroyed during the Night of the Long Knives, when they purged the NSDAP of various elements. NS really doesn't have an economic theory. It was more or less pragmatic. They had ties to big business and looted and plundered the lands under their occupation as well as enslaved millions of Eastern Europeans and worked many of them to death. That's not socialism. They did expand the government and have massive public works projects, but that's not socialism, either.

Socialism is public ownership of the means of production (major industries and such). It's a form of direct democracy where the workers are also owners of the business and co-operatively manage it together. The USSR stopped being anything approaching socialist after Stalin gained control and started his reign of tyranny and then it became progressively capitalist afterward. China isn't socialist, for sure, if it ever was. China is capitalist. North Korea is a corrupted sort of totalitarian absolute monarchy that actually has more in common with Fascism than it does socialism.

There have been socialist states and such, but they usually end up crushed by reactionary forces and/or their leaders are overthrown and usually assassinated. Gaddafi was a socialist but NATO destroyed his country and murdered him using Jihadist proxies. Thomas Sankara was leading a successful socialist revolution in Burkina Faso, but he was murdered in a Western-backed coup and his changes were rolled back. Salvador Allende of Chile was a democratically elected socialist but he was murdered in a Western-backed coup that installed the brutal Western-backed dictator, Pinochet. Huge Chavez was a democratically elected socialist leader, but he ends up dying suddenly (I think his death is very suspicious, because Western-backed interests had been trying to get rid of him for years). Evo Morales of Bolivia is a democratically elected socialist leader and so far he's still alive, and we'll see how long that lasts.

As for Africa, the ANC started off as Marxist revolutionaries but they've degenerated into corrupt terrorists who have turned South Africa into a hellhole. Robert Mugabe is another psychopathic dictator who started off as a Marxist revolutionary but completely turned his back on it.

Anyway, that's your little history lesson of the day.

Thanks for the detailed response and it deserves a more detailed answer when I have time-

But by your rationale, in order to argue that the National Socialist German workers party was not actually socialist.
we need to use a definition of socialism.. by which the USSR under Stalin was actually Capitalist!

I think that rather makes my side of the argument.. the Nazis embodied socialism by any common understanding of the term, government take over, the re-distribution of wealth and property from private to government control (by the most severe means possible in this case)

As you note in your examples, whatever the semantic academic debate, the practical reality is socialism goes hand in hand with dictatorship, poverty and war.

Countless millions died under Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Il Sung etc.... more than every religious war in history combined- and all practically within living memory

How many could have been saved, how much better off would the planet be if 'western-backed' forces could have stopped them earlier?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Like they wanna hear from an engineer who shoots holes in their pet paranoia?
I'm big on wasting my time (as all can see here), but that's asking too much.

This isn't Alex Jones or David Icke we're talking about. That guy has put a ton of work into that site and he's really not a kook. If you just want to dismiss it, fine. Moving on.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Thanks for the detailed response and it deserves a more detailed answer when I have time-

But by your rationale, in order to argue that the National Socialist German workers party was not actually socialist.
we need to use a definition of socialism.. by which the USSR under Stalin was actually Capitalist!

I think that rather makes my side of the argument.. the Nazis embodied socialism by any common understanding of the term, government take over, the re-distribution of wealth and property from private to government control (by the most severe means possible in this case)

As you note in your examples, whatever the semantic academic debate, the practical reality is socialism goes hand in hand with dictatorship, poverty and war.

Countless millions died under Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Il Sung etc.... more than every religious war in history combined- and all practically within living memory

How many could have been saved, how much better off would the planet be if 'western-backed' forces could have stopped them earlier?

Who cares what the popular idea of socialism is, especially in America? Most Americans have been fed right-wing propaganda since the Cold War about socialism and communism and have no idea what they really are.

I go by the actual definitions of socialism and communism, not the incorrect concept of them that right-wing liars like the Mises Institute want people to believe in order to make laissez faire capitalism look good.

The West didn't stop Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, the ANC, Mugabe, the North Koreans, etc. (and was largely the Soviets who defeated Nazi Germany). Wtf are you talking about?!

 

[Revoltingest]

This isn't Alex Jones or David Icke we're talking about. That guy has put a ton of work into that site and he's really not a kook. If you just want to dismiss it, fine. Moving on.

Many people put a lot of work into things.
But that cannot cure getting the basics wrong.
I don't know who the guy is.
I just look at the claims.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Many people put a lot of work into things.
But that cannot cure getting the basics wrong.
I don't know who the guy is.
I just look at the claims.

Whatever.

 

[Godobeyer]

is not this like how Nazi thought about Jews,?

is not nationalism is path of racism and distinction ?

 

[FearGod]

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/09/million-refugees-arrive-germany-year-150914101006005.html

Since the native German TFR is the lowest in the world (1.43), it would suggest that the native German population will decrease each generation by about 25-30%. Germany has also said they are planning on taking 500,000 refugees a year for several years. Assuming that most of these refugees are Syrian (which they are not but whatever), that shows the Syrian TFR to be 2.4. However a large chunk of these refugees are from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sub Saharan and East Africa where the TFR is considerably higher and the regions are still mostly Islamic. The TFR should be rounded up for refugees up to 3.0 if you include other ethnic groups. With an average TFR of 3.0, it results in a 25-30% increase per generation. Throw in immigration from Islamic countries and that amounts to at least a million Muslims a year. Let's assume Germany takes in a million Muslim immigrants and refugees (Germany has already promised to take 500,000) a year over say 5 years, that would amount to:

2015 - 6 million
2016 - 7 million
2017 - 8 million
2019- 9 million
2020 - 10 million

If each generation is about 30 years, extrapolating projections based on TFR gives:

2050: Non Muslim German population falls from 76 million to 53 million (with a 30% drop)
Muslim German population rises from 10 million to 13 million (with a 30% rise)

Assuming lifespans increase and TFRs drop for native Muslim population we have:

2080: Non Muslim German population falls from 53 million to 40 million (with a 25% drop)
Muslim German population rises from 13 million to 16 million (with a 25% rise)

Let's assume the overall population stays constant and Germany takes immigrants from other parts of the world, say India, China, Russia, ME and EU. As of now 20% of Germany is comprised of non ethnic Germans, and 1/8 of these legal immigrants are Muslims. Thus following the same demographic in 2080, the native born German population (born Muslim and non Muslim Germans) would be 56 million and to keep population of Germany stable at 80 million, that would require another 24 million million immigrants. If 12.5% of these 24 million native immigrants are Muslim, that's around 3 million Muslims, which would mean by 2080 the Islamic population of Germany would be 19 million and Non Muslim population will be 69 million. By mid 22nd century both populations would be equal.

We are assuming that the TFRs stay constant, which probably is wrong and will fall as is the current trend in the world. We are also assuming that Islamic religiosity stays constant, but one can argue that it could rise rather than fall. There is no shortage of poor Muslim refugees who will continue to stream into Europe for the next century, and if Germany continues to stay open it will continue to accept these Muslim refugees and thus offset the drop in native German Islamic TFR.

There is no doubt in my mind that Germany and probably Europe will have a Muslim majority in just over a 100 years, however the direction of Islamization is important. The actress who played Shae on Game of Thrones is a European Muslim, but so are the thousands of jihadists who have joined ISIS and Al Nusra.

What direction will German Islam take? What would a German state with a majority Islamic population look like?

I'll tell you when we reach the year 2080, promise.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I hope you're just joking about the Jewish conspiracy to knock down the towers in order to collect on the insurance.

I fear he was not, Holy moly, and Stalin was a capitalist.. I think I'll go back to the relative sanity of debating multiverses and aliens! see you..

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I fear he was not, Holy moly, and Stalin was a capitalist.. I think I'll go back to the relative sanity of debating multiverses and aliens! see you..

I didn't say Stalin was a capitalist. He was just a psychopath and a totalitarian. I said that after Stalin, the USSR became progressively capitalist. I also didn't say anything about Jews.

Yeah, perhaps you should take your leave since you haven't gotten anything correct so far in this thread.

 

[Robert.Evans]

This crisis in Europe might become ugly fast. Austerity measures on local population combined with bad handling of this refugee crisis is a dangerous situation.

Perhaps America should take some since they messed up most of the middleeast

 

[Revoltingest]

I fear he was not, Holy moly, and Stalin was a capitalist.. I think I'll go back to the relative sanity of debating multiverses and aliens! see you..

There's an origin for bizarro world definitions which make the old USSR a "capitalist" economy.
Consider the RF definitions for restricted forums....

Capitalism: An economic system based on private ownership of capital, resources, production, and systems of distribution. It functions primarily through the use of competitive markets, wage labor, and private property rights. It is affected by the political system it operates under, and can be found in many models such as laissez-faire capitalism, state capitalism, and social-market capitalism.

I've underlined the odd little addition to what defines capitalism here on RF (but not to most in the outside world).

Let's look at just what this arcane term means.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism
Extracting some typical text.....

The left communist/council communist traditions outside Russia consider the Soviet system as state capitalist. Otto Rühle, a major German left communist, developed this idea from the 1920s, and it was later articulated by Dutch council communist Anton Pannekoek, for instance in "State Capitalism and Dictatorship" (1936).

Reading the Wikipedia article, we see that "state capitalism" perfectly fits the common dictionary definition of socialism.

Ref....
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialism?s=t

a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Who cares what the popular idea of socialism is, especially in America? Most Americans have been fed right-wing propaganda since the Cold War about socialism and communism and have no idea what they really are.

I go by the actual definitions of socialism and communism, not the incorrect concept of them that right-wing liars like the Mises Institute want people to believe in order to make laissez faire capitalism look good.

The West didn't stop Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, the ANC, Mugabe, the North Koreans, etc. (and was largely the Soviets who defeated Nazi Germany). Wtf are you talking about?!

Unfortunately not, no


Some of us have spent time in both and know which we personally prefer, and the choice is always the same, I don't know anybody risking their lives to escape America and seek refuge in Pyongyang.

 

[Revoltingest]

Perhaps America should take some since they messed up most of the middleeast

It appears that we are.....
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ares-with-other-countries-taking-in-refugees/

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Unfortunately not, no


Some of us have spent time in both and know which we personally prefer, and the choice is always the same, I don't know anybody risking their lives to escape America and seek refuge in Pyongyang.

And who is defending North Korea on here?

My point about "Western interests" is that they always attack and destroy socialist and communist movements and leaders that are actually helping the people, but they let the monsters like Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, the Kims, Mugabe, etc. run wild.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

There's an origin for bizarro world definitions which make the old USSR a "capitalist" economy.
Consider the RF definitions for restricted forums....

I've underlined the odd little addition to what defines capitalism here on RF (but not to most in the outside world).

Let's look at just what this arcane term means.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism
Extracting some typical text.....

Reading the Wikipedia article, we see that "state capitalism" perfectly fits the common dictionary definition of socialism.

Ref....
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialism?s=t

That's because academic definitions of political and economic ideologies don't necessarily match up to what the American populace has been told by the right-wing government and media.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's because academic definitions of political and economic ideologies don't necessarily match up to what the American populace has been told by the right-wing government and media.

Or it could be that socialists will choose definitions ad hoc to allow only idyllic examples, & eliminate any bad ones.
When people abandon dictionaries to use their own definitions, that is a sign of mischief.