What's the Bible say about Hermaphrodites?

[shmogie]

I am so angered that ... I will try to speak respectfully. In 1947, when I was born, there was no oversight at all, and no records kept of Doctors "Setting things straight". I'm not in any sort of communication with the LGBT organizations but I can say with certainty that children who acted "not in accordance" with the gender expectations of the day often/ sometimes/ occasionally just disappeared. I personally faced that. How long that continued, I do not know? Certainly through the 50s, and perhaps the 60s? Maybe it still sometimes happens today ??? AND, the suicide rate for T folk and perhaps Intersex (???) is over 40%.

Nowadays, there is a lot of oversight on urban medical folk, I do not know how country medical folk handle all that?

Sadly, when I look at suicide rates, nationwide, they are high across all societal groups.

I was born two years after you., and I never saw anyone disappear. In my large family I had three cousins who were homosexuals, none of them disappeared, though two died of AIDS

Yes, by about Jr. High some of the boys could be identified as probable homosexuals, and they were teased horribly.

 

[Muffled]

Suppose there were a person whose gender would be indeterminate at birth. Let's say this person matures into a person with an overdeveloped clitoris / underdeveloped penis. What type of sexual behavior from such a person would be permissible, according to the Bible?

I believe God is opposed to confusion, so the best thing to do is go with the preferred gender and do away with the other.

 

[Muffled]

Whatever they choose.

That’s the result of the gift of ‘free will’, which separates us from all other living things.

God does not judge, so the concept of being permissible or not permissible via the Bible does not exist.

I believe I have no idea where you think "God does not judge" come from.

 

[Muffled]

Nothing directly, but they would be required I think to find out if they were able to either bear children or inseminate. Depending upon their capability they would proceed from there. If they couldn't reproduce at all then no sexual behavior would be required I think. That is -- if they were taking the command seriously to be fruitful and multiply.

I believe "be fruitful and multiply" is out of date. However nature will take its course so there will be marrying and giving in marriage until the end.

 

[Prestor John]

How do you know? Even saint Augustine knew about people who are born with both. There are children mutilated every day who are born with both so that they would pass for male or female.

Being born with both does not make you both or neither of the sexes.

There are only the two sexes. Male and female.

Would you consider surgery to correct a cleft palate to be mutilation as well?

 

[Prestor John]

There is Clitoromegaly, though I do not know the genetic code. I am XXY, very slim, moderate hips, well developed bust. Normal appearing "Junk", but nearly steril owing to low Testosterone level. Around 2% of the babies born are Intersex. Various Intersex conditions manifest themselves by having the Urethra at the base of the Penis, or at the bottom. Oh, it goes on and on. Ain't reading all about "And God made them male and female", and then meeting people with various intersex conditions...

Some children are born blind. Does that mean God didn't give Mankind the ability to see?

Just because a significantly low number of people experience one of the rarest imperfections of mortality does not mean that God made a mistake or that there are more or less than the two sexes.

 

[Prestor John]

True hermaphroditism is rare, but does happen.

True hermaphroditism - Wikipedia

Yet that link claims that,

"There are no documented cases in which both types of gonadal tissue function."

Wouldn't which tissue functions determine the sex of the child?

 

[Ellen Brown]

So to you it would be fine to mutilate them and remove extra genitals if the parents said, yes?

It's common and the US is quite a bit more backward in this than most of the west. Though even in my country removal of extra genitals is done as a matter of course. In case of those who are intersex, being forced is the way countries have been hiding the truth.

And in the past (?), I do not know where this still goes on (?) Doctors would rather remove female organs than Male organs. I have hear this over and over.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I was born two years after you., and I never saw anyone disappear. In my large family I had three cousins who were homosexuals, none of them disappeared, though two died of AIDS

Yes, by about Jr. High some of the boys could be identified as probable homosexuals, and they were teased horribly.

So, we had different experiences.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Some children are born blind. Does that mean God didn't give Mankind the ability to see?

Just because a significantly low number of people experience one of the rarest imperfections of mortality does not mean that God made a mistake or that there are more or less than the two sexes.

This conversation is a waste of time.

 

[Jumi]

If a baby is born with three legs, would you deny the parents the ability to have the the third leg removed ? How about two feet on one leg ? Is your argument that the kid needs to be old enough to decide for himself if he doesn't want to be walking around with three legs ?

It's not the same thing though. Imagine if you were "fixed" to female organs and male organs got mutilated by a doctor early, but during puberty had more male traits than female. It would be a damned disgrace, and it happens all the time.

Gender identification is a mental process, not a physical one.

Sounds nice, but I don't believe it. I for example could never identify with female. Of course you and I are lucky and we wouldn't have to care about the unfortunate ones, but I do care for them.

Anatomically there are only two sexes, and a person born with the sexual organs of both is a genetic disaster.

It's just the truth that there are born people who are born both. You can look into it. The early Christian writers knew about them, why don't some modern ones?

Whatever the parents decide to make the child normal, yes I used that word, has nothing to do with later gender identification.

They don't become normal, mutilating damages them and what you call "fixin'" is often the one that they found out later to be the wrong one. Doctors really can't make out which they are so they just throw a wild guess and ruin lives. I think it's barbaric. The only excuse is people who want to believe some fantasy and it would mess with their rigid worldviews that can't handle truth.

Consigning a child to grow to adulthood in that condition, with all the mental damage it would entail is viciously cruel, and a high price for a kid to pay for the smugness of those with a political agenda and are obsessed with everything about sex, the stranger the better.

What is done today is more cruel and I don't understand why people would perpetuate such evils as mutilating children. But then again I don't understand many evil things done to people. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. What is lucky for the people who do this is that only their patients will suffer. Ask @Ellen Brown

 

[Jumi]

Hmmmmmmm, how can a physician force a surgery on a baby ? Isn´t there such a thing as parental consent ? Follow the money in the lawsuit, 30 years later.

What if you wanted a girl but your baby was a boy, would you let the doctor correct "your problem"?

 

[Jumi]

I believe God is opposed to confusion, so the best thing to do is go with the preferred gender and do away with the other.

So a forced sex change operation is fine to you, at least on babies who can't decide for themselves. Would you care what happens to the baby later in life? Would you condemn them if they wanted to change in adulthood to the other gender that they are?

 

[Jumi]

Being born with both does not make you both or neither of the sexes.

So you want to believe, but the truth is in front of your eyes.

There are only the two sexes. Male and female.

Biology says otherwise.

Would you consider surgery to correct a cleft palate to be mutilation as well?

Would you consider a girl with a beard and high testosterone levels with a preference for girls and manly voice a great result of an operation?

 

[Jumi]

This conversation is a waste of time.

Forgive them, they don't know.

 

[Ellen Brown]

It's not the same thing though. Imagine if you were "fixed" to female organs and male organs got mutilated by a doctor early, but during puberty had more male traits than female. It would be a damned disgrace, and it happens all the time.


Sounds nice, but I don't believe it. I for example could never identify with female. Of course you and I are lucky and we wouldn't have to care about the unfortunate ones, but I do care for them.


It's just the truth that there are born people who are born both. You can look into it. The early Christian writers knew about them, why don't some modern ones?


They don't become normal, mutilating damages them and what you call "fixin'" is often the one that they found out later to be the wrong one. Doctors really can't make out which they are so they just throw a wild guess and ruin lives. I think it's barbaric. The only excuse is people who want to believe some fantasy and it would mess with their rigid worldviews that can't handle truth.


What is done today is more cruel and I don't understand why people would perpetuate such evils as mutilating children. But then again I don't understand many evil things done to people. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. What is lucky for the people who do this is that only their patients will suffer. Ask @Ellen Brown

Sadly, it is those of belief that are most condemning and painful to deal with.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

I believe I have no idea where you think "God does not judge" come from.

Oh, you’re a Christian.

A religious one for sure.

That explains your response.

I can only offer one bit of advice:
Forget your religious knowledge, and find out who God is first.
Not the God created in the image of religion, but the real one.

 

[shmogie]

What if you wanted a girl but your baby was a boy, would you let the doctor correct "your problem"?

Nope. A normal baby cannot be changed from one sex to another by all the slicing and dicing the world. We are speaking of an extremely tiny number with characteristics of both sexes. Then surgery and support care can give them the sexual characteristics of one sex. If as adults they don care for the sex they are, there are opens that people of both sexes employ.

 

[shmogie]

It's not the same thing though. Imagine if you were "fixed" to female organs and male organs got mutilated by a doctor early, but during puberty had more male traits than female. It would be a damned disgrace, and it happens all the time.


Sounds nice, but I don't believe it. I for example could never identify with female. Of course you and I are lucky and we wouldn't have to care about the unfortunate ones, but I do care for them.


It's just the truth that there are born people who are born both. You can look into it. The early Christian writers knew about them, why don't some modern ones?


They don't become normal, mutilating damages them and what you call "fixin'" is often the one that they found out later to be the wrong one. Doctors really can't make out which they are so they just throw a wild guess and ruin lives. I think it's barbaric. The only excuse is people who want to believe some fantasy and it would mess with their rigid worldviews that can't handle truth.


What is done today is more cruel and I don't understand why people would perpetuate such evils as mutilating children. But then again I don't understand many evil things done to people. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. What is lucky for the people who do this is that only their patients will suffer. Ask @Ellen Brown

I said the Bible takes no position on it, so from a Chitistian perspective,there is no right or wrong answer.

You keep using the word, mutilate, that is total nonsense. I have a friend who is a pediatric heart surgeon who specializes in newborn heart surgery, he has done heart surgery on babyś in the womb. He has to slice open their chests, remove or spread their ribs, stop their heart, and cut it up a bit. Is that mutilation ?

Babys who have surgery because they are born with organs of both sexes, to stabilize one sex aren´t mutilated, nor does it happen ¨all the time´, pure hyperbole.

Men decide they want to be women and are mutilated by surgery, why not ***** about that ? I have no idea if women have some kind of surgery so they can pretend they are men, but if they do, it is mutilation, a good cause for you to take up.

I am ambivalent on the subject, my children were born one sex, and as adults they are still the same sex.

Parents can do what they choose, and adults can sue whomever they choose.

The Bible takes no position, so I don really care

BTW, I never used the word fixin, you dredged that up from your own mind. Don´t attribute words to me I never used.

 

[Prestor John]

You've demonstrated that you are stubborn. Be thankful that you don't have the problem and can just judge people all you want to. Yes, hold onto that Iron Rod, even if you are wrong.

What judgment?

Have I ever said that anyone confused about their sex is somehow being immoral? Bad? Sinful?

I can claim that there are only the two sexes. The two genders. Without any judgment.

I can state the fact that a biological man cannot become a biological woman and vice versa without making any "judgment" about anyone.