whats your beef with brexit?

[oldbadger]

Wow...you do reply to requests!!!!
But not when people ask you to define British Values.

So you haven't been effected, but you are concerned about Muslim women, and no examples of you being affected.

We still only have one law of the land (well more really as Scotland has different laws) - but everyone is equal under the law. Show me a case where the British courts have been subservient to Sharia Law.
Perhaps you should rail about the police who are not prosecuting all these cases of Sharia Law; you seem to know all about them, why not contact your local bobby and ask him to investigate?

btw The Anglian Church has 20 Bishops in the House of Lords so the church is already adjudicating on your civil liberties.

It's odd when we debate against on, say, this thread, but debate 'with' on another!

 

[Altfish]

I'm sorry to hear that.
Let's see how things progress for the North once we're clear of Europe.
A Labour Government might make a huge difference, everywhere?

I can see how the City is the blue eyes of all, but then, without it our turnover would crash and burn. It's time for legislation to adjust money flow.

Can Kent have a bit? East Kent is seriously run down.

The Labour party are mainly run by Londoners.

The City is frightened to death by Brexit; Paris and Frankfurt are rubbing their hands, can't wait for us to be out, so expect turnover to crash and burn.
No sure what you mean about legislation to adjust money flow?

 

[Altfish]

It's odd when we debate against on, say, this thread, but debate 'with' on another!

That's life

 

[oldbadger]

The Labour party are mainly run by Londoners.

The City is frightened to death by Brexit; Paris and Frankfurt are rubbing their hands, can't wait for us to be out, so expect turnover to crash and burn.
No sure what you mean about legislation to adjust money flow?

I don't know enough to have any idea about the City, but if Labour is 'London' then it's bound to be the East End!

We must rethink how we support poorer counties. It will need Legislation to help with that. I'm going to vote Labour.

 

[oldbadger]

But if we're not trading with Europe as much....

How will our fishing industry have a chance? There is nothing stopping our boats fishing now. We only control a 12-mile band around the coast (IIRC) Another cod war?

Cod War? Nope! We don't have suitable vessels for any Cod Wars, we learned that by pitting paper-thin Frigates against tough little ice-crunching gunboats.

This 12 mile limit isn't too bad, because it extends far beyond 12 miles in many areas. For instance, take an Estuary like the Thames, I seem to remember that the 12 mile limit extends beyond a line drawn from Ramsgate to Norfolk, or something close to that, so the area protected in that one area is probably many hundreds of square miles. And so on. I don't know how it works, back in the late 70's Russian factory ships would anchor off Margate and offer quick suction unloads of herring at lower rates, but our boats could empty and be back fishing in a hour. And the Russian girls were mad to swap vodka, dolls, tea-urns etc for the fishermen's jeans and trainers! I saw some weird sights.

 

[Altfish]

We must rethink how we support poorer counties. It will need Legislation to help with that. I'm going to vote Labour.

Don't have a problem with that...but we don't need Brexit to do that.
I'd start by moving more institutions out of London; despite the Mail's scaremonging moving much of the BBC to Salford has been a great success. Let's do the same with some Ministries. Move the DfT to (say) Newcastle, they may then realise that it's not just London that has transport issues.

 

[Altfish]

Cod War? Nope! We don't have suitable vessels for any Cod Wars, we learned that by pitting paper-thin Frigates against tough little ice-crunching gunboats.

This 12 mile limit isn't too bad, because it extends far beyond 12 miles in many areas. For instance, take an Estuary like the Thames, I seem to remember that the 12 mile limit extends beyond a line drawn from Ramsgate to Norfolk, or something close to that, so the area protected in that one area is probably many hundreds of square miles. And so on. I don't know how it works, back in the late 70's Russian factory ships would anchor off Margate and offer quick suction unloads of herring at lower rates, but our boats could empty and be back fishing in a hour. And the Russian girls were mad to swap vodka, dolls, tea-urns etc for the fishermen's jeans and trainers! I saw some weird sights.

But, haven't we still got the 12-mile limit for our ships - weren't licences issued? Then the UK fishermen sold them on, to Italians, poles, etc

 

[England my lionheart]

Dude, people in London don't give one for anything north of Watford. The EU grants which have gone into infrastructure and other projects in deprived areas of the UK will be replaced with... ???


The north south split has nothing to do with the EU. The govt. have had to bribe Nissan to keep jobs in Sunderland. One thing you can be sure of; if Brexit is a success or a failure, the north will still be bottom of the pile. Northerners will still be depicted as second-rate benefits scroungers whose votes don't count.



Nothing to do with the EU - far more to do with the EU-hating right wing press who write the Tories manifesto for them.

So why do you think the people of northern England voted to leave if the eu was benefitting them so much.

 

[Notanumber]

Wow...you do reply to requests!!!!
But not when people ask you to define British Values.

So you haven't been effected, but you are concerned about Muslim women, and no examples of you being affected.

We still only have one law of the land (well more really as Scotland has different laws) - but everyone is equal under the law. Show me a case where the British courts have been subservient to Sharia Law.
Perhaps you should rail about the police who are not prosecuting all these cases of Sharia Law; you seem to know all about them, why not contact your local bobby and ask him to investigate?

btw The Anglian Church has 20 Bishops in the House of Lords so the church is already adjudicating on your civil liberties.

Do those Anglican bishops adjudicate in divorce courts held in community churches?

“I don’t want to die because I’m an atheist”: ex-Muslims speak out

How many other religions in the West instil such fear into their followers?

Would the KKK get a better press if they called themselves the Klan of Peace?

Ex-Muslims understand the situation and I hope they are right about this - “The internet is doing to Islam what the printing press did for Christianity,” says Namazie. Despite the threats facing dissenters and ex-Muslims, she believes there is a hidden “tsunami” of non-believers waiting to engulf Muslim societies.

Jihad: A Story of the Others - Wikipedia

 

[England my lionheart]

Sunderland........... Beautiful county. Beautiful city in Durham. From my infancy It reminds me of mining, shipbuilding, fishing, farming............. and they played rugby.

A neighbour of mine is looking to buy a small property in or around Durham.

Every county has it's joys and supporters (even Brum! ). The North-South Divide may be crumbling, what with the minimum wage, gradual flotation of house prices. When we get out and clear of the EU I reckon that all counties will have a good chance of pragression.

I'd move to Durham if I needed to, no probs, but my wife loves Kent.

Kent used to be called the garden of England,my family have lived there for hundreds of years, beautiful place.

 

[England my lionheart]

I don't think that our Eastern Ports will suffer.
Our imports and exports will carry on, regardless, and the Great European Port (Rotterdam) will still be receiving for and sending on to us.

And our fishing industry may (at last) have a chance to progress. Those foreign boats sure are taking the mickey.

Truth is, I don't think any of us can be smugly confident, but we can look back to the nonsenses and costs of the EU.

One member wrote on this thread that the UK National Debt stands at nearly two thousand billion pounds. So the EU membership doesn't seem to have been quite so wonderful.

Exactly that, in reality it hasn't been wonderful at all and at times ridiculous.

 

[England my lionheart]

The north has not progressed. I can tell you don't live up here any more. We were slammed after 2008 and have not recovered. Many jobs we still have were created thanks to our membership of the EU. But never mind, the govt. are more concerned with their pals in the City losing out.

Be interested in a list of jobs created by the eu and so would the unemployed of the Northern cities.

 

[Srivijaya]

Be interested in a list of jobs created by the eu and so would the unemployed of the Northern cities.

Lots of unemployed in Sunderland (apart from those who work in the Nissan Europe plant). Plenty of unemployed in Hull (apart from those who now work for Siemens). Quite a lot of unemployment black spots across Yorkshire, good job Innology employs plenty, and that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure if I asked the Chambers of commerce to provide me with lists of employers which rely on customs-free import/export along the east coast there'd be loads more. Not to mention EU funding for the LEPs and regional development funds.

But what difference does any of that make for you guys? None.

Okay, here's what p***es me off with Daily Mail - Trump loving patriots. When you really need them to stand up for this country, they back right off because they only follow a blinkered racist agenda.

Right now UKplc are in the process of flogging our nation's future to the Chinese in a series of deals that will see them controlling a decent slice of our nuclear industry and other key infrastructure. We'll be mortgaged to a totalitarian dictatorship (tiananmen square anyone?) for decades paying over the odds to them for power we can source cheaper from renewables. This is a silent scandal of epic proportions and the press are keeping quiet - palms crossed with silver my friend.

Sorry to mention that because China are in line to be our "new saviors". I'd like to see you newspaper patriots dump the Islamophobia for a few seconds and say something about that. You won't because your right wing press baron masters are not interested in telling people the truth. Jeremy Hunt himself - that fine fellow - has said that Britain needs to be more like China, so that's okay then.

And when Trump gets his hands on the NHS in an other stonking free trade deal, that won't matter either. No, carry on letting them asset strip this country and frack it senseless in the name of free trade. At least our bananas will be straight (or was that curved) and we'll have our country back. (not)

 

[Altfish]

Do those Anglican bishops adjudicate in divorce courts held in community churches?

“I don’t want to die because I’m an atheist”: ex-Muslims speak out

How many other religions in the West instil such fear into their followers?

Would the KKK get a better press if they called themselves the Klan of Peace?

Ex-Muslims understand the situation and I hope they are right about this - “The internet is doing to Islam what the printing press did for Christianity,” says Namazie. Despite the threats facing dissenters and ex-Muslims, she believes there is a hidden “tsunami” of non-believers waiting to engulf Muslim societies.

Jihad: A Story of the Others - Wikipedia

Firstly, I see you have no answer to my question about what British Vales means!!!
No change there then.

Anglican Bishops tried to stop divorce being allowed in the UK. It was the church that opposed legal reform. Look it up!!

What has the KKK got to do with this discussion, just another diversion to avoid the main question. WHAT ARE BRITISH VALUES??

I don't like any religion, they are all controlling institutes, Islam is a horrible religion but Muslims are in the majority fine. Namazie is right, she is brave and speaks up for the oppressed, she believes in British Values, Do You??

 

[Altfish]

So why do you think the people of northern England voted to leave if the eu was benefitting them so much.

Because of the Daily Mail, loveable Boris couldn't be wrong, the Sun said we'd be better off and Westminster never thinks of us (despite that having nothing to do with the EU).
btw My area in the north voted Remain, despite being a Tory stronghold.

 

[England my lionheart]

Lots of unemployed in Sunderland (apart from those who work in the Nissan Europe plant). Plenty of unemployed in Hull (apart from those who now work for Siemens). Quite a lot of unemployment black spots across Yorkshire, good job Innology employs plenty, and that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure if I asked the Chambers of commerce to provide me with lists of employers which rely on customs-free import/export along the east coast there'd be loads more. Not to mention EU funding for the LEPs and regional development funds.

But what difference does any of that make for you guys? None.

Okay, here's what p***es me off with Daily Mail - Trump loving patriots. When you really need them to stand up for this country, they back right off because they only follow a blinkered racist agenda.

Right now UKplc are in the process of flogging our nation's future to the Chinese in a series of deals that will see them controlling a decent slice of our nuclear industry and other key infrastructure. We'll be mortgaged to a totalitarian dictatorship (tiananmen square anyone?) for decades paying over the odds to them for power we can source cheaper from renewables. This is a silent scandal of epic proportions and the press are keeping quiet - palms crossed with silver my friend.

Sorry to mention that because China are in line to be our "new saviors". I'd like to see you newspaper patriots dump the Islamophobia for a few seconds and say something about that. You won't because your right wing press baron masters are not interested in telling people the truth. Jeremy Hunt himself - that fine fellow - has said that Britain needs to be more like China, so that's okay then.

And when Trump gets his hands on the NHS in an other stonking free trade deal, that won't matter either. No, carry on letting them asset strip this country and frack it senseless in the name of free trade. At least our bananas will be straight (or was that curved) and we'll have our country back. (not)

I don't read the mail, I sometimes read the independent or rarely the Times, I'm not keen on dealing with China either especially a nuclear power plant.

As for our assets they were sold off long ago,the list you gave is OK but think about this, the eu funding comes from the money we've paid in and I'll bet the amount isn't the same so it's not like we're getting it free.

 

[LionLooking]

So why do you think the people of northern England voted to leave if the eu was benefitting them so much.

Some reasons I've heard spouted by my friends:

1. A protest vote because 'I don't like Cameron' - So Cameron is gone and we now have May. Well done
2. 'To save the NHS' - Based on the lie from Brexiteers about extra money for the health service. The NHS actually benefits from EU membership (nurses, doctors, cleaners) rather than suffers
3. 'I don't like the French' - Ignorance and bigotry
4. 'Dunno. Everyone's doing it' - Ignorance again

So, the answer to your question seems to be a mixture of bigotry and ignornce

 

[England my lionheart]

Some reasons I've heard spouted by my friends:

1. A protest vote because 'I don't like Cameron' - So Cameron is gone and we now have May. Well done
2. 'To save the NHS' - Based on the lie from Brexiteers about extra money for the health service. The NHS actually benefits from EU membership (nurses, doctors, cleaners) rather than suffers
3. 'I don't like the French' - Ignorance and bigotry
4. 'Dunno. Everyone's doing it' - Ignorance again

So, the answer to your question seems to be a mixture of bigotry and ignornce

My question was straightforward and mentioned none of the above and it seems you think so little of the people who voted to leave including old people, bigotry, check in the mirror.

 

[LionLooking]

My question was straightforward and mentioned none of the above

The question I was replying to asked why people in the North voted for Brexit.
My answer list genuine reasons quoted from the horse's mouth.

...it seems you think so little of the people who voted to leave

Perception is often so different from reality

including old people,

I have the utmost respect for the oldr generation. The fact remains, however, that older people who voted to leave will not be around to suffer the consequences. The younger generation, who voted to remain, will.

... bigotry, check in the mirror.

Bigotry is an intolerant devotion to one's own prejudices. I don't fit that description - some others on this thread may though.

 

[oldbadger]

Don't have a problem with that...but we don't need Brexit to do that.
I'd start by moving more institutions out of London; despite the Mail's scaremonging moving much of the BBC to Salford has been a great success. Let's do the same with some Ministries. Move the DfT to (say) Newcastle, they may then realise that it's not just London that has transport issues.

No probs..... Great Idea.
It has eliminated any need for centralisation that ever existed before.
Government offices could be scattered, as could all those other commercial centres we've mentioned.
Thousands of traders (of various kinds) can work from home now, and there is no reason why employment cannot be scattered.

One HUGE issue is all about massive redundancies caused by IT and robotics. It's time to start thinking about free further education for redundant folks (or everybody?) It's time to start thinking about a basic wage for the unemployed........... it's no good any rich tax dodgers moaning about handouts to the unemployed. We're entering a totally new world now.

But....Brexit? There is no maths that can prove or disprove the reasoning behind Brexit. It's what the referendum showed, and the voters mostly didn't have a degree in EU economics... it was a vote about people's feelings. But looking backwards, the EU has been a pain in our backsides and we are horrendously in debt. Let's go it alone once more...............