whats your beef with brexit?

[LionLooking]

The anti-immigration brigade is not running the country

Really?

... and will not be doing so after we leave.

I hope you are right but I fear that public opinion (and therefore, future election results) is shifting towards the extreme right. Brexit is a symptom of that

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

The anti-immigration brigade is not running the country and will not be doing so after we leave.

Where have you been for the last several years? Here in reality the Tories have been in power for quite some time and now they've got the likes of the DUP backing them.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, it is a slippy slope. My constituency (A Tory stronghold) voted Remain; Manchester voted Remain. So along with Scotland can we stay in the EU.

False equivalence; Scotland is not a region or constituency of England. Despite what one or two idiots at Marks & Spencers might think, ha.

But....Brexit? There is no maths that can prove or disprove the reasoning behind Brexit. It's what the referendum showed, and the voters mostly didn't have a degree in EU economics... it was a vote about people's feelings. But looking backwards, the EU has been a pain in our backsides and we are horrendously in debt. Let's go it alone once more...............

Are you actually trying to blame the EU for successive Westminster goverments' wreckless spending? Also, how do you think increasing business costs associated with overseas trade and making the UK an unattractive place to do business is going to solve the UK's mounting debt problems?

 

[Altfish]

False equivalence; Scotland is not a region or constituency of England. Despite what one or two idiots at Marks & Spencers might think, ha.

Who said it is?

 

[Notanumber]

Where have you been for the last several years? Here in reality the Tories have been in power for quite some time and now they've got the likes of the DUP backing them.

The left wing Twitterati will protect any and all immigrants. Trump might be strong enough to resist the Left and their Political Correctness but our politicians will not stick their heads above the parapet.

 

[oldbadger]

So screw the rest of us because "English spouses get a rubbish deal"? Thanks so much.

Look, when we make mention of just one negative connected to the EU, it's just one ................ there's a bookload of the things.

And I never tell anybody here or anywhere to 'screw themselves' ............ that must be your own mind at work.

 

[oldbadger]

Tell that to the farmers here in Lincolnshire who are struggling to get workers to pick their crops now that Brexit is rearing its ugly head


The numbers are already falling


They do, but not to pick veg. Who will do that now?


I think they are very important. NHS Digital, the agency that collects data on the health service, found that in the 12 months following the referendum, 9,832 EU doctors, nurses and support staff had left the UK.
To replace them we can rely on non-EU migrants you say? Isn't that replacing immigration with immigration? I thought Brexiteers wanted less immigration?


If I was from Ulster then I'd want to leave the UK. I can't speak for them though.



And tough luck on the rest of the UK too.



Why should we leave? Aren't we free to campaign to stay in the EU, or is aall your talk of freedom only fro Brexiteers?


No. I shall do my utmost to keep my country in the EU where it, and its citizens, are better off.


The very prospect makes me shudder


Did you say that to UKIPPERS when they called for a referendum?


I'm not highly educated - I left school at 16.

Yeah OK, I read it all.
Your Lincolnshire farmers, all screeching because they might lose some Latvian cheap labour, eh?
They'll have to pay proper wages if they lose those folks.
I'm not going to lay in bed worrying about Lincolnshire farmers tonight, or any night.
I never seen a poor Lincolnshire farmer in my life.

Oh my .................. you left school at 16, did you by any chance go to agricultural college? Are you a Lincolnshire farmer? I'm only having fun.

 

[oldbadger]

Are you actually trying to blame the EU for successive Westminster goverments' wreckless spending? Also, how do you think increasing business costs associated with overseas trade and making the UK an unattractive place to do business is going to solve the UK's mounting debt problems?

Actually? You're rhetoric is flowing nicely today!

No, I won't blame the EU for idiots who still want to play worldwide war-games with enormous carriers and submarines........ what is the Latin for 'White Elephant'? ..... we could have named them something like that. We've probably chucked a hundred billion at that lot, all together.

Oh sure, I expect that Brit Business must shake itself and get going after Brexit, but many very successfull Brit Businessmen are screaming for a speedy brexit, and so unless you're a self made tycoon I think I'll focus on them, not you.

The EU was a whirlpool of costs, and bureacrats.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Who said it is?

That's what it reads like. But then I've had years of people treating Scotland like it's a region of England so I'm probably being a tad paranoid in this case.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

The left wing Twitterati will protect any and all immigrants. Trump might be strong enough to resist the Left and their Political Correctness but our politicians will not stick their heads above the parapet.

None of that is a response to what I actually said, but that's not surprising on this subject.

 

[England my lionheart]

The question I was replying to asked why people in the North voted for Brexit.
My answer list genuine reasons quoted from the horse's mouth.

I think your list is missing one important thing and it's that being in the eu hasn't benefitted them in any way.

Perception is often so different from reality


I have the utmost respect for the oldr generation. The fact remains, however, that older people who voted to leave will not be around to suffer the consequences. The younger generation, who voted to remain, will.

Good, they have seen from before we joined the EU and also see its not benefited them either, during winter one dies every 7 minutes from poverty cold or flu and often alone yet we pay more into the eu than most, I'd be pissed off too.

Bigotry is an intolerant devotion to one's own prejudices. I don't fit that description - some others on this thread may though.

"perception is often different from reality"

 

[LionLooking]

Yeah OK, I read it all.
Your Lincolnshire farmers, all screeching because they might lose some Latvian cheap labour, eh?
They'll have to pay proper wages if they lose those folks.

As far as I know, the farm labourers get minimum wage (appalling, I know). The reason immigrant workers do the job is because Britons (or very few of them) will work for that money.

I never seen a poor Lincolnshire farmer in my life.

That's most likely due to EU subsidies

Oh my .................. you left school at 16, did you by any chance go to agricultural college?

No. I worked and read a lot.

Are you a Lincolnshire farmer? .

No. I'm a writer but that's not really relevant to this discussion

 

[LionLooking]

"perception is often different from reality"

Is there an echo... echo... echo...?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Bicycles and fish? Why pick rubbish analogies?

It's not an analogy. It's more of an idiom.

I was showing one example in many of an unequal deal.
We don't want unequal deals.

And you think the entire EU revolves around a single person?

Now I know that you're completely out of tune with our employment situations here.
When we get clear of the EU, we can BUY any professionals that we might have unfilled vancancies for, but we need to start thinking about protecting working positions for our own working people, because IT is slowly clearing out positions. And if you think that Retail Staff and Bank Tellers are without expertise then that tells me bookloads about you.

You've just said that their positions are being replaced with computers.

Take a tip from me.............. a person with, say, ten year's work in retail, or driving a forklift, or delivering mail etc, is QUALIFIED with and by EXPERIENCE, a very valuable qualification.

And their jobs are being replaced by machines, like you said. Again, it's not an insult to their ability, it's about the availability of their jobs versus what the jobs created and filled by immigrants are.

If you want to sideline folks who haven't got a paper qualification when you could be thinking of ways to refloat their lives then you're not going to worth hearing in discussions about the future of our UK.

I'm not "side-lining" them. You just said that all their jobs are being replaced with computers. Leaving the EU isn't going to change that. What it WILL change is the number people in qualified positions, i.e: positions that won't be getting replaced with computers. Fact is, we have less and less people willing to fill those positions AND the positions, as you rightly assert, are shrinking.

You and your financial evaluations....
IMO you've shown that you've overlooked too many important values to get any accirate maths from your model of a financial evaluation.

I've not overlooked anything (that I'm aware of). I've clearly taken more into account than you have.

NO, it's not. There's a difference between choosing to buy and being made to pay..............

Continuing to not make sense doesn't suddenly make you make sense.

 

[England my lionheart]

Is there an echo... echo... echo...?

Just giving back your own words ;-)

 

[Altfish]

We're getting more than £350m a week back - Boris says, so it must be true.

 

[Altfish]

This is still going well.

What interests me most is the Brexiteers reducing their promises "We will not be any worse off...well after the first 5 to 10 years"
We never get any talk of the what the benefits are; no papers are leaked showing the benefits, they all show the down side. To which we get the response, "We don't trust the experts"
Now the blame is being put on the 'Remoaners', "You are being treasonous by opposing Brexit" "The type of Brexit we are getting is not what we wanted and it is all Remoaners fault"

They then call the EU for fighting for the rights of their members and playing hardball. This was one of the things that the EU was accused of not doing during the debate pre-Referendum.

 

[Notanumber]

It is not all bad news.

Hopefully this woman will be packing her bags shortly.

All we need is more Mogmentum with a little help from his friends!

Nigel still has it, where it counts!

 

[LionLooking]

It is not all bad news.

Oh, but it is. According to the government reports (which they tried to keep hidden) it looks like the whole country is going to suffer post Brexit (as if we didn't already know that) . But the most badly affected places are the places which voted most overwhelmingly to leave - the run down places.
It seems they took out their anger at poverty on the EU rather than where it truly lies, and now their position will get worse rather than better.
Shame that the rest of us have to be dragged down into their self-inflicted misery.

 

[Notanumber]

Oh, but it is. According to the government reports (which they tried to keep hidden) it looks like the whole country is going to suffer post Brexit (as if we didn't already know that) . But the most badly affected places are the places which voted most overwhelmingly to leave - the run down places.
It seems they took out their anger at poverty on the EU rather than where it truly lies, and now their position will get worse rather than better.
Shame that the rest of us have to be dragged down into their self-inflicted misery.

Project fear rearing its ugly head again.

 

[LionLooking]

Project fear rearing its ugly head again.

So, even when government (which supports Brexit) commissions reports, if you don't like what you read you dismiss it as 'Project Fear'.
Ostrich and Sand are two words that spring to mind.