When Can Someone Change His or Her Consent to Sex?

[MysticSang'ha]

Intention is critical.

No one is talking about loopholes.

Yes, I think you and Rev Rick are. You both brought up timing of receiving a message and acting on it as somehow relevant. No means no. Why the questions about whether or not somebody may take some time - SECONDS EVEN - to stop? That is, unless, you are so worried that you won't be able to act in time to avoid being charged with rape?

"But, Your Honor....it isn't fair. She said stop and I was in the middle of my action and couldn't stop right away!"

Is this anywhere near what you are discussing?

 

[Me Myself]

Yes, I think you and Rev Rick are. You both brought up timing of receiving a message and acting on it as somehow relevant. No means no. Why the questions about whether or not somebody may take some time - SECONDS EVEN - to stop? That is, unless, you are so worried that you won't be able to act in time to avoid being charged with rape?

"But, Your Honor....it isn't fair. She said stop and I was in the middle of my action and couldn't stop right away!"

Is this anywhere near what you are discussing?

Again I ask, are you able to stop on a dime when sprinting?

 

[Alceste]

I came home from over seas and had not seen my wife for 6 months, she made this yummy dinner and had candles lit, but I had other plans. The next morning the candles where completely burned down, small wonder the house did not burn. The bedroom was a wreck and we woke in each others arms. We must have passed out totally spent. Dinner was still on the table. I have no memory of the evening and I was not drinking, but wine was poured. She looked at me and said, you have to stop staying away so long. It was the last time I left the country.

She could have said, stop or don't stop for all I know. What I do know is she is still with me.

So what? Do you think you spent the evening forcing your wife to copulate with you against her will because you were too "passionate" to pay any attention to her needs?

I don't, and neither do you, and neither does she. You'd have heard about it.

This tangent is ridiculous.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I came home from over seas and had not seen my wife for 6 months, she made this yummy dinner and had candles lit, but I had other plans. The next morning the candles where completely burned down, small wonder the house did not burn. The bedroom was a wreck and we woke in each others arms. We must have passed out totally spent. Dinner was still on the table. I have no memory of the evening and I was not drinking, but wine was poured. She looked at me and said, you have to stop staying away so long. It was the last time I left the country.

She could have said, stop or don't stop for all I know. What I do know is she is still with me.

Now I understand your concern.

If you're curious, you could ask her if she remembers that night. You could tell her you have no memory. Look at it this way if you're worried that the debate stirs the possibility of you taking advantage of her...you don't remember that night, and not only is she still with you, but you're still with her.

IOW, what if YOU were the one who could have possibly said "stop", and you have no memory of it?

 

[Me Myself]

Fine. This is addressed to you specifically, then.

Can you stop while you are having an orgasm? And yes, I'm bringing orgasms specifically into this for a reason. Can you stop instantly while you are having an orgasm if, say, you suddenly hear gunshots or an explosion outside? Or if somebody barges into your room? Or if you hear a blood-curdling scream from another part of the house or building?

Sure I can stop. Though reaction between people and attention spams vary. i dont know if i would react in a second, half a second, two seconds, i dont know, I dont remember ever having had to stop that way.

Do you understand the argument coming from me has nothing to do with the deliberate continuation of sex after you understand partner wants stop?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Again I ask, are you able to stop on a dime when sprinting?

Nope. But sprinting is not sex. Apples and oranges.

Answer my question please. EDIT TO ADD: I see you just have answered, thanks.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Sure I can stop. Though reaction between people and attention spams vary. i dont know if i would react in a second, half a second, two seconds, i dont know, I dont remember ever having had to stop that way.

Do you understand the argument coming from me has nothing to do with the deliberate continuation of sex after you understand partner wants stop?

What is your point then?

I agree with Alceste. This tangent is ridiculous.

 

[Alceste]

Sure I can stop. Though reaction between people and attention spams vary. i dont know if i would react in a second, half a second, two seconds, i dont know, I dont remember ever having had to stop that way.

Do you understand the argument coming from me has nothing to do with the deliberate continuation of sex after you understand partner wants stop?

It's not that we don't understand, it's that your point is totally irrelevant to the subject at hand, which is that when you know your partner wants you to stop, it is sexual assault to disregard him or her and continue.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Again I ask, are you able to stop on a dime when sprinting?

Actually, I'll try to make this relevant.

Say I'm sprinting while dragging a friend of mine on a sled. All of a sudden, I hear the friend saying "STOP! This hurts!"

You bet I'm stopping right away and checking to see if they're okay. There is no concern about how long it takes for me to stop and turn around to check. And if I'm the one being dragged, and I want them to stop, I'm not going to time them to see if they've turned around in a sufficient time. If I say STOP, I expect them to react. It's called basic respect.

 

[Me Myself]

What is your point then?

I agree with Alceste. This tangent is ridiculous.

My point is what I have said many times.

The stopping is not instantaneous on all scenarios given muscular response may be slow due to taking time to notice the problem.

Bouncing action can work similar to sprint, you cant literally stop on a dime.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

My point is what I have said many times.

The stopping is not instantaneous on all scenarios given muscular response may be slow due to taking time to notice the problem.

Bouncing action can work similar to sprint, you cant literally stop on a dime.

Oh really?

I have. So have my partners when I've asked them to stop. It can, does, and should happen.

 

[Alceste]

My point is what I have said many times.

The stopping is not instantaneous on all scenarios given muscular response may be slow due to taking time to notice the problem.

Bouncing action can work similar to sprint, you cant literally stop on a dime.

Here you betray a fundamental lack of understanding of the principle of momentum.

 

[Me Myself]

Actually, I'll try to make this relevant.

Say I'm sprinting while dragging a friend of mine on a sled. All of a sudden, I hear the friend saying "STOP! This hurts!"

You bet I'm stopping right away and checking to see if they're okay. There is no concern about how long it takes for me to stop and turn around to check. And if I'm the one being dragged, and I want them to stop, I'm not going to time them to see if they've turned around in a sufficient time. If I say STOP, I expect them to react. It's called basic respect.

Your legs wouldnt make one single more forward motion the very second your ear hears the friend?

As I said before. Of course the jperson should stop, but reasonably it wont necessarily be on the second depending on e rythm of the movement.

The same way when you play musical chairs people keep walking a pair of involuntary steps as they notice music just stopped.

Thats all I am saying.

 

[Alceste]

Oh really?

I have. So have my partners when I've asked them to stop. It can, does, and should happen.

Me too. The partners I've been with have reacted immediately to any indication that I might be uncomfortable or in pain. I've hardly ever even had to verbalize it.

That's not just luck either - it's a pretty broad sample.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Your legs wouldnt make one single more forward motion the very second your ear hears the friend?

As I said before. Of course the jperson should stop, but reasonably it wont necessarily be on the second depending on e rythm of the movement.

The same way when you play musical chairs people keep walking a pair of involuntary steps as they notice music just stopped.

Thats all I am saying.

That's all? Your point is completely and totally irrelevant to changing consent. It's actually bordering on paranoia.

 

[Reverend Rick]

People have different personalities and it is best to get to know a person before having sex with them. You could bring a killer home to bed with you for all you know.

If two people love each other and care about each others likes and dislikes, the law should never enter into this discussion.

If the only thing that keeps you from doing harm to your partner is the law, that is sad indeed.

People in relationships some times make mistakes. What is important is, that mistakes are dealt with and not repeated. As time goes on, things should get better and better. If not, you should move on and find that special person who loves and cares about you instead of making another law.

If I was a woman and a man done me terrible and intentionally caused me pain, he might not live to see another day.

 

[Alceste]

Your legs wouldnt make one single more forward motion the very second your ear hears the friend?

As I said before. Of course the jperson should stop, but reasonably it wont necessarily be on the second depending on e rythm of the movement.

The same way when you play musical chairs people keep walking a pair of involuntary steps as they notice music just stopped.

Thats all I am saying.

What is your point? Does this have anything to do with wilfully, intentionally ignoring a partner who asks you to stop? If not, why are you still banging on about it? If I ask you to stop posting nonsense about sprinting now, how many more ridiculous posts will it take before you do?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Me too. The partners I've been with have reacted immediately to any indication that I might be uncomfortable or in pain. I've hardly ever even had to verbalize it.

That's not just luck either - it's a pretty broad sample.

Exactly. I'd said before earlier in the thread that a few male partners I've been with have even stopped while they were edging toward orgasm because they noticed I was uncomfortable. I didn't even SAY anything yet, and they were already stopping. Immediately.

Non-consent is very very clear. Attention to your partner's boundaries is very very simple.

I bet $5 that this point is going to be made in a future feminism thread as to how males are victimized so horribly because they are expected to stop thrusting when a woman says stop. Any takers?

 

[Me Myself]

That's all? Your point is completely and totally irrelevant to changing consent. It's actually bordering on paranoia.

Not really. The question was how long should the person take to react.

How long is "immidiately"?

That is not at all irrelevant for the discussion.

As I said to anyone who cared to read, anyone can withdraw consent at any point and the other must accept such withdrawal asap.

This doesnt mean of course that the very first next penetration after consent withdrawal is rape though, because it may very well be the next step after the musice went out on a musical chairs contest.

 

[Me Myself]

Exactly. I'd said before earlier in the thread that a few male partners I've been with have even stopped while they were edging toward orgasm because they noticed I was uncomfortable. I didn't even SAY anything yet, and they were already stopping. Immediately.

Non-consent is very very clear. Attention to your partner's boundaries is very very simple.

I bet $5 that this point is going to be made in a future feminism thread as to how males are victimized so horribly because they are expected to stop thrusting when a woman says stop. Any takers?

I can only say I am surprised you keep talking about men on women, I am talking about partner on partner. Why are you making it an issue about sex?